My Problem With Zelda

Originally Posted by Maser

The "if it aint broke don't fix it" saying comes to mind when thinking about Zelda games being all the same.

Good job saying what I had previously. Twice

Originally Posted by Advance123

...Don't fix what isn't broken...

Originally Posted by Maser

..."if it aint broke don't fix it" saying comes to mind...

Originally Posted by Advance123

Good job saying what I had previously. Twice

That saying doesn't really work too well in entertainment mediums such as gaming. Tell the same joke over and over and it eventually gets old.

Originally Posted by Red Shadows

Yes, but kids own the gaming market these days too. Why would CoD be at the top selling spot every year?

You basically just said that kids like CoD because it is repetitive. So why are you complaining about every Zelda being the same?

Hey everyone! A quick trip over to the OP's user page shows that the OP created their account on the same day they posted this, which might indicate that they created their account JUST to post this. Furthermore, the OP was last active on the day after they created their account. Additionally, the OP did not like any posts, make any friends, or comment on any other threads after they created this one.

It's possible that the OP has just been busy since they posted this, and it's also possible that the OP has been spectating this thread without logging into his / her account. A third possibility is that the OP actually was trying to start an argument here in the forums. Considering the opposite extremes, the OP's post seemed innocent enough to me, but it is possible that they were trying to be a subtle troll instead of an obvious one.

In any case, let's be mindful of the OP's absence as we proceed with the thread, shall we? Let's keep this a discussion instead of an argument. Let's not feed any potential trolls out there.

The true problem with Zelda is that there aren't enough games.

Originally Posted by Devonfayr

Hey everyone! A quick trip over to the OP's user page shows that the OP created their account on the same day they posted this, which might indicate that they created their account JUST to post this. Furthermore, the OP was last active on the day after they created their account. Additionally, the OP did not like any posts, make any friends, or comment on any other threads after they created this one.

It's possible that the OP has just been busy since they posted this, and it's also possible that the OP has been spectating this thread without logging into his / her account. A third possibility is that the OP actually was trying to start an argument here in the forums. Considering the opposite extremes, the OP's post seemed innocent enough to me, but it is possible that they were trying to be a subtle troll instead of an obvious one.

In any case, let's be mindful of the OP's absence as we proceed with the thread, shall we? Let's keep this a discussion instead of an argument. Let's not feed any potential trolls out there.

Uh huh, and how exactly are we going to do that? All people do on ZU is argue with each other, anyway..I can only imagine what it would be like if all of ZU's members were in the same building together. 'Bunch of people arguing about what's canon about Zelda, and what's a theory. And what the best Zelda game is, by sales.

I've made posts purely to get everybody in a nice discussion. Most of the posts for the first week are aimed at me, crediting my stupidity and berating my intellect (Which I do admit is kinda low, when it comes to fanboyism). But then I lay low for awhile, and come back..And what do you know? People are arguing.

As for OP? *Bows head solemnly* Some people just want to watch the world burn..like me!

I looked and compared the post date and the join date and the last activity and I think Devonfayr is right. The poster of this wanted to start something. I'm actually amazed a flame war hasn't ignited or a Mod hasn't had to step in yet.

Originally Posted by Ganonslayer

I looked and compared the post date and the join date and the last activity and I think Devonfayr is right. The poster of this wanted to start something. I'm actually amazed a flame war hasn't ignited or a Mod hasn't had to step in yet.

Yeah okay.


Can we please all get back on course with this thread without going off-topic? We're all intelligent enough not to fight over a video game.


--EL

Originally Posted by Eternal Legend

Can we please all get back on course with this thread without going off-topic? We're all intelligent enough not to fight over a video game.

As a mod, I'm sure you've dealt with plenty of people who proved that we're not all capable of avoiding arguments. Or, even if we are technically capable of avoiding arguments, many of us do, unfortunately, seem to have a capacity for rudeness and confrontation. Though we might like to pretend or expect otherwise, it's not exactly sensible to deny the truth: people often fight over seemingly trivial matters. I was simply trying to help prevent that.

But you're right on one point; we ought to get back on topic.

My thoughts are these: the Zelda series, in my eyes, has always been the perfect example of a good "stick to the formula" series. (I'm talking about the main series; I'm not talking about spin-offs like Tingle's games or the crossbow training game.) Sticking to the formula works for Zelda. After 25 years of Zelda games being very derivative and similar to each other, we ought to accept that sticking to the formula isn't merely a trend for Zelda games; it is a definitive characteristic of Zelda games. Sticking to the formula is simply what Zelda games do (with various small exceptions, of course).

Personally, I really don't think there's anything that's necessarily bad about sticking to a formula; I'm happy as long as the few differences between each title are substantial enough to make each game feel unique in some way. This all goes back to what I said earlier in the thread; as a player, I feel it is my responsibility to be able and willing to broaden or narrow my perspective at will as I play a game.

Since the Zelda games are, for the most part, very similar to one another, I simply narrow my gaze as I play each game because doing so allows me to appreciate the subtle differences so much more. That makes each game a more unique and enjoyable experience than they would be if I were to play each game criticizing everything that's not fresh or original.

Incidentally, that approach is the precise reason that I don't fully agree with the OP's point. I recognize that the games are quite similar, and I can see how someone who prefers novelty might not like the similarities, but...well, I saw this quote somewhere (maybe in this thread) and I think it fits this situation nicely:

"I simply appreciate the series for what it is instead of criticizing it for what it isn't."

That logic obviously isn't applicable in all scenarios; for instance, you can't really just appreciate something that's absolutely terrible for what it is when it was meant to be truly great.

But I've sampled all of the main-series Zelda games (and thoroughly played / beaten most of them) and I don't think any of them are truly bad. So, I think the above quote applies here.

Originally Posted by Devonfayr

But I've sampled all of the main-series Zelda games (and thoroughly played / beaten most of them) and I don't think any of them are truly bad. So, I think the above quote applies here.

As have I. All of the games are above average, but looking back on them, I just see 'Zelda'. Not 'Twilight Princess', 'Ocarina of Time', 'A Link to the Past', etc, etc, etc, just 'Zelda. I honestly have to look deep in my memories to remember witch one is witch.

This comes from them all being EXTREMELY similar to each other. Each one has different (and flat...) characters, a new or changed map, and a few new features and items, but they all have the same general plot.

That fact bugs me to no end. It's like watching the same movie over and over, just with different actors and a new setting. Or reading a book with the same characters and plotline as another book I'd finished reading. It's not satisfying.

I understand the 'If it's not broken, don't fix it' mentality, but when the same old, abused parts are just buffed over, as opposed to being replaced, the machine (being Zelda) will cease to function and people will no longer want to buy the machine.

Rant over.

I think one very important point is being overlooked here. The Zelda franchise is not trying to be different. They follow the same basic plot because WE (Zelda Fans) LOVE IT!! I am not interested in changing things because I love it just the way it is - if it ain't broke why fix it?

I know many of you will disagree with me, but my favourite Zelda games are the ones that follow the same basic plot of defeating Ganon and saving Zelda ie. LttP, OoT, Loz, TP. I am less of a fan of the titles that sway from this basic story line ie. MM, PH

Also, with the gameplay gripe, I like having similar gameplay, it makes the game comfortable and familiar. Meaning it takes less time to learn how to use the controls and more time enjoying the game.

So, basically I agree with the idea that Zelda games are generally all the same, but that is what I like about them.

I've been playing zelda my whole life now (the only game I play lol) and I don't agree with the complaint. Zelda is a formula and it works. There's no need to change that. And there are enough games with different villains (although I hope there will be more, since I really like majora and vaati).

I just don't think people really understand what the Zelda games are. Minor adjustments are necessary and sometimes nintendo needs to do more (more Npc, less lineair, more dungeons and races etc), but Zelda is and hopefully will be the basic formula of how the legend is told.

I haven't been playing the Zelda games as long as everyone else here has so I can't say much about Zelda in particular but I can speak for all games when I say using the same formula doesn't make it boring.

Let's take Pokemon, for example. I'm sure you're all familiar with it and how the game works. But recently they came out with Pokemon Black/White (and it's sequel). It's still the same thing. Start a journey, collect badges, defeat the E4, defeat a boss (in this case for normally you'd defeat the champion and it was over but the story didn't allow for it), etc. etc. But the storyline and emotions the characters conveyed made it (in my opinion) a far better Pokemon game and possibly one of the games I enjoy most on any console. So can't the same be said for Zelda?

Yes, basically every game is going on some adventure as a guy named Link trying to save some Zelda girl who seems to get kidnapped quite a lot. But that doesn't mean that each game doesn't have something that will really keep you interested and wanting to play more despite thinking that you've grown tired of the formula. Perhaps, some voice acting might do a Zelda game some good or maybe a little twist in one of the games but changing the games as whole at this point would just throw the franchise off. They can mature and enhance what they have, but I don't think a lot of you would consider it the same Zelda if the franchise would turn into an RPG like the Tales of franchise now would you?

Besides, games like these are fun. Reminds me a little of Bayonetta's battle system and what not. The game is aimed towards people who like that stuff. If you don't like it then it might not be for you although I understand the feeling of dull or frustrating game play but an engaging story. It's terrible but hey, not every video game is going to be perfect.

I'm not going to read through the whole thread, so this might have been said before:

The OP complained about 'always the same controls' since OoT. Comments like that always confuse me. How are you going to change the controls for Zelda? You want to make it a first person shooter? You want the sluggish Resident Evil controls? Or maybe the also slow ones from The Elder Scrolls?

Let's face it: you can't improve the way you control Link. Some games have tried, with mixed reactions. Touch screen controls on the DS games? Funny, but why not allow for another input? Motion control in SS? I personally loved it (and I hope to see it again), but so many people complained about it.

This makes me want to create a new thread where we make a list of Zelda must-haves and things that aren't important... if it doesn't exist yet.

Originally Posted by MissingLink

I think one very important point is being overlooked here. The Zelda franchise is not trying to be different. They follow the same basic plot because WE (Zelda Fans) LOVE IT!! I am not interested in changing things because I love it just the way it is - if it ain't broke why fix it?

I know many of you will disagree with me, but my favourite Zelda games are the ones that follow the same basic plot of defeating Ganon and saving Zelda ie. LttP, OoT, Loz, TP. I am less of a fan of the titles that sway from this basic story line ie. MM, PH

Also, with the gameplay gripe, I like having similar gameplay, it makes the game comfortable and familiar. Meaning it takes less time to learn how to use the controls and more time enjoying the game.

So, basically I agree with the idea that Zelda games are generally all the same, but that is what I like about them.

This.
Arguably, whenever Zelda deviates too far from the generic Zelda formula, fans tend to complain. Remember when Wind Waker was revealed? (Cel-shaded, kiddy graphics?! Link has a sister?!?! A boat instead of Epona?! It's nothing like OoT!!!1!!11one!) I've seen and heard plenty of complaints about Majora's Mask as well. (No linear plot and no Ganon, wut?) So us fans like Zelda games to be typical Zelda games; just with improved graphics, battle engines, new toys, and new stories.

...My two cents. I don't think sticking with the main formula is a bad thing, but I do wish for more Zeldas like MM.

Originally Posted by Eos

This.
Arguably, whenever Zelda deviates too far from the generic Zelda formula, fans tend to complain. Remember when Wind Waker was revealed? (Cel-shaded, kiddy graphics?! Link has a sister?!?! A boat instead of Epona?! It's nothing like OoT!!!1!!11one!) I've seen and heard plenty of complaints about Majora's Mask as well. (No linear plot and no Ganon, wut?) So us fans like Zelda games to be typical Zelda games; just with improved graphics, battle engines, new toys, and new stories.

...My two cents. I don't think sticking with the main formula is a bad thing, but I do wish for more Zeldas like MM.

Exactly what I always wanted to say, but couldnt come up with

I'm done with the Zelda series. Its getting repetitive as hell. Am I the only one in this god forsaken universe whose sick of seeing Ganondorfs ugly face? He's not even a favorite villain of mine. How long can they keep this up? With every video game being about Ganondorf, and saving the princess? It's madness. It would be like every single Batman comic being about Batman saving Rachael.

Originally Posted by Devonfayr

Hey everyone! A quick trip over to the OP's user page shows that the OP created their account on the same day they posted this, which might indicate that they created their account JUST to post this. Furthermore, the OP was last active on the day after they created their account. Additionally, the OP did not like any posts, make any friends, or comment on any other threads after they created this one.

It's possible that the OP has just been busy since they posted this, and it's also possible that the OP has been spectating this thread without logging into his / her account. A third possibility is that the OP actually was trying to start an argument here in the forums. Considering the opposite extremes, the OP's post seemed innocent enough to me, but it is possible that they were trying to be a subtle troll instead of an obvious one.

In any case, let's be mindful of the OP's absence as we proceed with the thread, shall we? Let's keep this a discussion instead of an argument. Let's not feed any potential trolls out there.

Good catch. Absolutely genius.



Now on topic:

I love most Zelda games, and there are quite a few differences between each game, plus a few games that completely deviate from the formula (Like MM) or make a new, but short lived formula (like PH). I would like to see the basic structure of Zelda games to become more diverse, but the general gameplay is fine imo. All that needs variation (including things that already have it) are art styles, plots, progressive structure, characters, music, etc. That's my two cents That's my opinion. (Didn't realize someone already used that line, I'm no copycat )