Is it time for the series to grow up?

Looking around, it seems that quite a few of the posters here want the Zelda series to 'grow up' - to adopt darker themes, a more realistic graphical style, more depth in terms of gameplay mechanics, etc.

Up until now, Zelda games have been quite child-friendly. I describe it as a children's series because I think people who play Zelda are either children or have been playing since childhood.

But a lot of Zelda fans are grown up now. The biggest generation of Zelda fans, the OOT generation, now comprises people in their late teens/twenties. Older fans seem to be frustrated because they want to continue playing the series, but the series hasn't grown up alongside them. Should the series now grow up to accommodate these fans?

In my opinion, the answer is no.

The idea of a grown up Zelda game just seems completely wrong to me.
I think one of the most appealing aspects of the series is that it is a fairytale. I don't believe that cynicism or blurred morality have any place in this series. Zelda should be about a boy with a magic sword who saves a princess. And the graphics should reflect the fairytale nature of the game.

There are a lot of valid complaints on this forum about the quality of the games dropping off recently, but there are also people who complain when a Zelda game fails to appeal to them on a mature level, and I just think, "You're doing it wrong". Because, in my opinion, you shouldn't go into a Zelda game expecting it to appeal to you on a mature level. You should go into it - as you would a Disney movie or something like Star Wars - as though you were still eight, or however old you were when you started playing Zelda, and hope for it to help you recapture whatever sense of wonder or excitement you felt when you were that age.

If you're a grown up, then a successful Zelda game is the one that succeeds in making you feel like a kid.

That is my opinion. What is yours?

I don't care about how mature they make a Zelda game as long as there is a reason to have an edgy Link or instances of blood. Don't make gory stuff just to make it appeal to adults. Make everything fit the main themes of the game.

I think it should stay as it was in OoT. Zelda is a huge part of childhood and now into my high school years, I'd hate to see it change.
But, games like OoT haven't affected me in any negative way, how would it affect future Zelda fans? I think they should fall in love with the same games that a lot of us did as children.

No, just get more difficult for battles

Originally Posted by Lenin

Looking around, it seems that quite a few of the posters here want the Zelda series to 'grow up' - to adopt darker themes, a more realistic graphical style, more depth in terms of gameplay mechanics, etc.

I agree with what is said here, but most fans don't really want this. They want your basic Lord of the Rings ripoff or something, I don't know. It's getting stupid.

Originally Posted by Lenin

Looking around, it seems that quite a few of the posters here want the Zelda series to 'grow up' - to adopt darker themes, a more realistic graphical style, more depth in terms of gameplay mechanics, etc.

Up until now, Zelda games have been quite child-friendly. I describe it as a children's series because I think people who play Zelda are either children or have been playing since childhood.

But a lot of Zelda fans are grown up now. The biggest generation of Zelda fans, the OOT generation, now comprises people in their late teens/twenties. Older fans seem to be frustrated because they want to continue playing the series, but the series hasn't grown up alongside them. Should the series now grow up to accommodate these fans?

In my opinion, the answer is no.

The idea of a grown up Zelda game just seems completely wrong to me.
I think one of the most appealing aspects of the series is that it is a fairytale. I don't believe that cynicism or blurred morality have any place in this series. Zelda should be about a boy with a magic sword who saves a princess. And the graphics should reflect the fairytale nature of the game.

There are a lot of valid complaints on this forum about the quality of the games dropping off recently, but there are also people who complain when a Zelda game fails to appeal to them on a mature level, and I just think, "You're doing it wrong". Because, in my opinion, you shouldn't go into a Zelda game expecting it to appeal to you on a mature level. You should go into it - as you would a Disney movie or something like Star Wars - as though you were still eight, or however old you were when you started playing Zelda, and hope for it to help you recapture whatever sense of wonder or excitement you felt when you were that age.

If you're a grown up, then a successful Zelda game is the one that succeeds in making you feel like a kid.

That is my opinion. What is yours?

Well TP was all about zelda grown up, its story was apparently dark, but the lifeless characters and plot made me not care.

SS was supposed to feature an adult link, thus being "grown up" having to do adult things, but it couldn't have realistic graphics after they decided to have 1:1 swordplay, to exaggerate enemies making it easier to see how the gameplay mechanics work.

Originally Posted by rageagainst

SS was supposed to feature an adult link, thus being "grown up" having to do adult things

SS does have an adult Link.

If anything Zelda started Grown up, and started to Get a little less mature. I mean Majoras mask was one of the Darkest and most depressing games ever, You had 3 days to save the entire world, or the moon would crash into it, killing everyone. The constant death around you, from the Deku Princess's Fiance being killed, and looking just like Deku link, Mikau Dying while leaving a traumatized Lulu without a voice, and her eggs dying. Then you got Darmani, He dies leaving behind a crying child who wants nothing more than to be near him. Hell half of the characters you meet are either; Depressed, Dying, Transformed into a zombie (One character only I guess), kidnapped by aliens, or has some kind of mental illness. This game was adult, and ♡♡♡♡, so was Ocarina of time, you dealt with Death, destruction, deceit, and all together you end up giving up everything in the end. So no, I think the series is doing ok, I just don't take the games with TOON link in them very seriously because C'mon could you take this face seriously?

^ And yet, TWW had very dark themes as well.

The start of the adventure had your sister being kidnapped, when you leave your grandmother becomes deliriously ill from loneliness, the Earth and Wind sages from ages past died mysteriously, Hyrule is in fact under the ocean sealed in a time bubble because the Goddesses thought the only way to stop Ganondorf's return was to flood the damn place and kill almost everyone, and that didn't even work.

And then you have one of the deepest characterizations of Ganondorf TO DATE. Not to mention this was the only game so far where Ganondorf actually SUCCEEDED IN GETTING ALL THE TRIFORCE PIECES AND ALMOST HAD HIS WISH COME TRUE.

Also, I would take that Toon picture more seriously than this TP one, and this picture was actually IN the game instead of a fan creation:

I mean seriously, WTF is with that face!?

As for Majora's Mask, how could you forget the two most important contributions to the Zelda franchise?

I just can't take anything with Toon link seriously.
Hell TP was kind of immature and boring at times too, WW just did not put off the impression of serious to me, there was just too many cartoony elements. That's not to say that MM had no cartoony moments at all, but things just went straight back to dark and gloomy almost instantly, with WW you had a few hours of cartoony antics back to serious, back to cartoon, with MM it was like every once in awhile you would get comic relief, but that's only because it didn't want you to get clinical depression

I am not saying I hate WW, but I just don't find it all that serious.

And as for tingle
He ♡♡♡♡ing disturbed me, and he just adds to the dark undertone. I mean he thinks he is a fairy...Mental illness.

And the Eledgy statue...don't get me started on how bad that creeped me out.

Originally Posted by The Joker

I just can't take anything with Toon link seriously.
Hell TP was kind of immature and boring at times too, WW just did not put off the impression of serious to me, there was just too many cartoony elements. That's not to say that MM had no cartoony moments at all, but things just went straight back to dark and gloomy almost instantly, with WW you had a few hours of cartoony antics back to serious, back to cartoon, with MM it was like every once in awhile you would get comic relief, but that's only because it didn't want you to get clinical depression

I am not saying I hate WW, but I just don't find it all that serious.

I personally half agree with you. Wind Waker can be rather serious at times. When you think about it, this 12 year old's sister has been kidnapped by a giant menacing bird. For all we know she could be ripped to shreds and eaten. We later learn that he dark lord is trying to kidnap young children to extract a triforce from the if they have so he can rule the land under an iron fist. We later have to find sages who have been murdered by Ganandorf's minions. Not to mention the part where a sword is stuck in Ganondorf's head. Not to mention the way all of those redeads looked in WW. They were creepy. Not as creepy as OoT's though. That's just my opinion though. We are all different.

But that was the thing with WW in the end it just seemed like a typical Villain scheme

To take over the world
OF COURSE!!


I mean sure the Implications of what could happen were kind of serious, but they never did happen, Sure the death of the sages is serious too, but they are only briefly mentioned. MM was completely focused around death, not just hinting towards it every once in awhile.

And The sword in gannons head? How about a evil ♡♡♡♡ing mask that takes over your mind and makes you kill thousands-millions of people for no reason whatsoever, and then just for fun lets throw in the fact that you wear dead people's faces and you become them...

Originally Posted by The Joker

I just can't take anything with Toon link seriously.
Hell TP was kind of immature and boring at times too, WW just did not put off the impression of serious to me, there was just too many cartoony elements. That's not to say that MM had no cartoony moments at all, but things just went straight back to dark and gloomy almost instantly, with WW you had a few hours of cartoony antics back to serious, back to cartoon, with MM it was like every once in awhile you would get comic relief, but that's only because it didn't want you to get clinical depression

I am not saying I hate WW, but I just don't find it all that serious.

And as for tingle
He ♡♡♡♡ing disturbed me, and he just adds to the dark undertone. I mean he thinks he is a fairy...Mental illness.

And the Eledgy statue...don't get me started on how bad that creeped me out.

I have to agree. The cartoony elements of Wind Waker such as the graphics definitely made it harder to take the game seriously. I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem.

Anyways, what Zelda definitely needs to work on is depth. Have you ever seen a Zelda game since Wind Waker that has an overworld with a lot of depth that's fun to explore and very emotional characters. I think not. Majora's Mask definitely did it correctly with it's 3 day time system and it's emotional side quests to immerse yourself in the game. We just don't have this one element anymore. This is the reason why Twilight Princess failed to be what the game was hyped up to be.

If they add the depth that Majora's Mask had in Skyward Sword, then I truly believe Skyward Sword can earn the tile, "The Best Zelda Game of All Time."

Originally Posted by Lenin

Looking around, it seems that quite a few of the posters here want the Zelda series to 'grow up' - to adopt darker themes, a more realistic graphical style, more depth in terms of gameplay mechanics, etc.

They already have. It's called The Wind Waker.

The Wind Waker is in no way a darker theme. It felt like a typical Heroine game. The princess is captured, you're the legendary hero, add a little comic mischief here and there, maybe a plot twist or two, and once again Link has saved the day from the evil wizard and saved the princess.

I adore how the story turns out, considering how Hyrule gives me that nostalgic feeling and finding out what specifically happened to it was very interesting. It was indeed a fun filled ride, but in no way dark. Except for the whole, I stab you in the ♡♡♡♡ing skull moment, but it's still PG because he turns into stone for God knows why.

I think the whole Turn to stone thing was to keep people away from the fact that you just Skull ♡♡♡♡ed Gannon with your sword, and him turning into stone can kind of distract you from that fact. I guess they were trying to make it seem all MAGICAL when he died, instead of you know, blood pouring from his head.

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Radioactive Dinosaur

They already have. It's called The Wind Waker.

Wind Waker is one of the most commonly hated on games in the Zelda Franchise...And the whole reasoning for it, is because it is childish and boring with no real Intellect required to solve the puzzles.

As I have stated before I still like this game because of the Nostalgic factor it has, and the fact that I am nautical like no one's business, so the only thing that even draws me to it is the sailing.

Originally Posted by The Joker

I think the whole Turn to stone thing was to keep people away from the fact that you just Skull ♡♡♡♡ed Gannon with your sword, and him turning into stone can kind of distract you from that fact. I guess they were trying to make it seem all MAGICAL when he died, instead of you know, blood pouring from his head.

Or they were trying to keep the E Rating which succeeded. Kind of like how they wanted to make OOT less mature by having Ganondorf puke green blood instead of red. Kind of lame tbh.

I kind of said that. Keeping people from letting the fact you just stabbed someone in the brain sink in, will keep a E rating.

You've played WW, right Archon?

Zelda being kidnapped is the very last pre-Ganon thing that happens in the game; you were on your way to kill Ganon anyway, Zelda just happened to get caught. The main story is far from cliche (other than legendary hero vs dark wizard), and princesses being kidnapped has almost nothing to do with it.

Wind Waker, unlike many other games in the series, had a point. A theme. A moral. And that was this - don't tether yourself to the past, to what is comfortable and known. Instead, step out with courage and faith into the unknown future for a truly satisfying life. This is played out fantastically throughout the game with various metaphors and even characters. For instance, Ganondorf represents the wrath that comes from desperately clinging to what is know, while the King of Hyrule is a clever counter, representing the release of the past and acceptance of change.

In addition, the game skillfully uses metaphors to illustrate its point. The world below represents the past, what's come and gone but still present as what's known and familiar, while the world above represents the uncertain future. The drowning of Hyrule represents the acceptance of the future and the refusal to be tethered to what's comfortable and known. Even the sailing can be seen as metaphorical. Link had lived comfortably on Outset all his life, without hardly any trouble to speak of. Then BAM, sister gets kidnapped, and he meets Tetra, a woman who had to grow up and take charge before her time since her mother died, a woman who sails the ocean as a free spirit. These two are also opposites used to illustrate a point. By the end, Link stepping into manhood by journeying on his own, sailing away from his carefree life into the hard life of the hero, represents his own step of faith into a more satisfying future unchained by what is known and comfortable.



And the moral of TP's story is.... Uhm, good always wins. Power corrupts. Or something.

Originally Posted by Claus

You've played WW, right Archon?

Zelda being kidnapped is the very least pre-Ganon thing that happens in the game; you were on your way to kill Ganon anyway, Zelda just happened to get caught. The main story is far from cliche (other than legendary hero vs dark wizard), and princesses being kidnapped has almost nothing to do with it.

Wind Waker, unlike many other games in the series, had a point. A theme. A moral. And that was this - don't tether yourself to the past, to what is comfortable and known. Instead, step out with courage and faith into the unknown future for a truly satisfying life.

First off, gannon was looking for zelda because he knew she had the triforce. That was the entire point of capturing the little girls And Zelda being Hidden as Tetra (SHEIK?!) was they only reason she was not found, so yeah it did have something to do with the story...it's how the entire story starts.

Second Windwaker being one of the few with a point?
Honestly The game moved it's morals around so much I never saw one,
Ocarina of time = Accept who you are, You can change anything, Friendship can conquer many things

Majoras Mask = Don't dress like tingle, Grudges cause nothing but pain, Even if what you do is not remembered do it anyway for the good of heart, Looking for an old friend can make you new ones.

WW = Sailing rocks? Being a 16 year old and blond always gets you a hero title? Protect your loved ones? Love can save the ones you care about? Don't steal? Ok you need to steal?
WW was the first game where link kind of had his own personality and did very quirky things which just added to his Cartoon like state. Making him very hard for me to take seriously.

OoT/MM link did not do anything like that, he was bassically whoever you wanted him to be. Which is kind of he was meant to be since the days of LoZ for NES

TP = Never give up? Living in ordon blows? Life can be unexpected?