Who is a more memorable character: Link or Mario?

Originally Posted by Double A

Correction.

In OoT and WW, it was WHITE tights.

In TP, it was more of a light-brown-white color.

Tunic = Tights.

Topic over.

Originally Posted by Double A

I beg to differ. Pokemon is behind by about 20 million, and NSMBWii and Galaxy 2 are coming out soon.

Not to mention Mario was around longer, so I bet Mario is still more well-known.

1981 - 2008 for Mario, that's 27 years, in which it sold 201 million titles.

1996 - 2008 for Pokemon, that's 12 years, in which sold 186 million titles.

(I have no '09 data).

Pokemon sells around 15.5 million titles per year. Mario sells around 7.5 million titles per year. By the end of Pokemon's fifth generation (at a guess around 2012/2013), I bet you Pokemon will be level or have outsold Mario. If you add together Platinum, Diamond and Pearl (they're essentially all the same), they are the best selling DS game there is, and that's not even counting the vast numbers of spin-off games like the Mystery Dungeon series, which also all rank exceptionally highly. DPPt top the DS charts, RSE top the GBA charts, and RBY top the GBC charts - every single handheld generation, Pokemon has won.

You are also forgetting Pokemon has a vastly wider base than Mario. Pokemon has a trading card game, a hit TV series (Mario had one but it died horribly), entire buildings dedicted to nothing but it, its very own Saturday morning TV show, the whole shazam. So many young children know about Pokemon solely through the TV series or the card games, something Mario hasn't done for decade and did very badly at anyway.

The only real thing Mario has going for him over Pokemon is age.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

1981 - 2008 for Mario, that's 27 years, in which it sold 201 million titles.

1996 - 2008 for Pokemon, that's 12 years, in which sold 186 million titles.

(I have no '09 data).

Pokemon sells around 15.5 million titles per year. Mario sells around 7.5 million titles per year. By the end of Pokemon's fifth generation (at a guess around 2012/2013), I bet you Pokemon will be level or have outsold Mario. If you add together Platinum, Diamond and Pearl (they're essentially all the same), they are the best selling DS game there is, and that's not even counting the vast numbers of spin-off games like the Mystery Dungeon series, which also all rank exceptionally highly. DPPt top the DS charts, RSE top the GBA charts, and RBY top the GBC charts - every single handheld generation, Pokemon has won.

You are also forgetting Pokemon has a vastly wider base than Mario. Pokemon has a trading card game, a hit TV series (Mario had one but it died horribly), entire buildings dedicted to nothing but it, its very own Saturday morning TV show, the whole shazam. So many young children know about Pokemon solely through the TV series or the card games, something Mario hasn't done for decade and did very badly at anyway.

The only real thing Mario has going for him over Pokemon is age.

2012-2013? I don't believe it.

First of all, like yugioh, Pokemon's trading cards and anime aren't nearly what they used to be.

Second off, if I remember correctly, Mario has far more spinoffs than Pokemon, ranging over a wider variety of game genres, meaning wider appeal.

Thirdly, New Super Mario Bros Wii.

Fourth, Mario 2D platformers tend to be "evergreen" titles, and SMB1 and 3 are hits on the VC. Not to mention NSMB DS and Wii will continue to sell long after Pokemon stops selling.

Fifth, well-known =/= more memorable. Mario and his games are generally more memorable than anything associated with Pokemon.

Indeed, Pokémon as a franchise are most certainly as much if not better known than Mario, but any individual Pokémon by themselves (even Pikachu) is far from what you could call as memorable as Mario. The number of Pokémon have gone up to almost 500, for Pete's sake.

Abyss is right. Still, to add on to what Crabby said, you'll find Pokemon in amusement parks too. I know because I was in Six Flags Over Georgia last summer and won a Buneary plushie at a game where all the prizes were Pokemon plushies. There was one other game that had the same prizes somewhere else in the park.

Did I see anything else from Nintendo there? Nope. The rest was Looney Tunes and super heroes.

Originally Posted by Double A

2012-2013? I don't believe it.

186 million, at 15.5 million a year, is 201.5 million by the end of 2010, 217 million by the end of 2011.

201 million, at 7.5 million a year, is 208.5 million by the end of 2010, 216 million by the end of 2011.

So in reality, by saying 2012/2013, I'm actually even being generous to Mario.

First of all, like yugioh, Pokemon's trading cards and anime aren't nearly what they used to be.

It still has them. Mario doesn't.

Secondoff, if I remember correctly, Mario has far more spinoffs than Pokemon, ranging over a wider variety of game genres, meaning wider appeal.

This is irrelevant. Mario is reaching a smaller base by around 8 million per year, even with the help of his far wider range of spin-offs, this implies that his appeal is in fact quite small and nobody particularly likes the spinoffs, compared to Pokemon's vastly popular spin-offs.

Thirdly, New Super Mario Bros Wii.

I bet you that Pokemon 5A/5B will outsell New Super Mario Bros Wii.

Fourth, Mario 2D platformers tend to be "evergreen" titles, and SMB1 and 3 are hits on the VC. Not to mention NSMB DS and Wii will continue to sell long after Pokemon stops selling.

You do realise that Ruby and Sapphire are still shifting copies, right? Pokemon is the definition of evergreen because every game requires you to own the last fifteen games in order to obtain all the Pokemon. You have to buy the older titles, and people still do. Also, if you think NSMB Wii will outsell Pokemon 5A/5B, you are delusional bordering on retarded, and Diamond and Pearl and Platinum (they're basically the same game) have already outsold NSMB DS by a comfortable 6 million, despite being released slightly later (in the case of Platinum, a lot later).

Fifth, well-known =/= more memorable. Mario and his games are generally more memorable than anything associated with Pokemon.

Pikachu is far more recognisable than Mario. He's essentially the mascot, he appears in every game, he has more cards than any other Pokemon, he is the leading Pokemon in the anime, etc, etc. Pokemon generates more revenue than any other primary video game franchise - more people buy Pokemon products than Mario products, once you factor all the other branches in. Pikachu has a much wider spread and influence in society than Mario.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

It still has them. Mario doesn't.

Again, Well-known =/= Memorable.

I've watched the Spiderman movies, even played a game or two. I know of him, but he isn't so memorable to me.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I bet you that Pokemon 5A/5B will outsell New Super Mario Bros Wii.

I'm not sure I know what you mean here, so I'm going out on a limb and saying Pokemon 5A/5B are the next-gen successors to Diamond and Pearl...

... which are going to come out AFTER NSMBWii, allowing the latter a fair lead.

I would also like to point out that MKWii somewhat beat MKDS in terms of sales, , and that D&P barely outsold it. NSMBW could end up mirroring MKWii and outselling its DS version.

I'm not making a bet, but I'm convinced that there is a fair chance of you being wrong.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

You do realise that Ruby and Sapphire are still shifting copies, right? Pokemon is the definition of evergreen because every game requires you to own the last fifteen games in order to obtain all the Pokemon. You have to buy the older titles, and people still do. Also, if you think NSMB Wii will outsell Pokemon 5A/5B, you are delusional bordering on retarded, and Diamond and Pearl and Platinum (they're basically the same game) have already outsold NSMB DS by a comfortable 6 million, despite being released slightly later (in the case of Platinum, a lot later).

Am I to believe that if Nintendo released a MKDS2 and MKDS3 (EDIT: I meant NSMB2 and NSMB3), that the three DS Pokemon games would be left in the dust?

This is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Sold More = Well-Known =/= Memorable.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Pikachu is far more recognisable than Mario. He's essentially the mascot, he appears in every game, he has more cards than any other Pokemon, he is the leading Pokemon in the anime, etc, etc. Pokemon generates more revenue than any other primary video game franchise - more people buy Pokemon products than Mario products, once you factor all the other branches in. Pikachu has a much wider spread and influence in society than Mario.

Irrelevant. Completely.

Unless you're willing to tell me that Wii Fit and Nintendogs are two of the most memorable games of all timez.

Originally Posted by Double A

Again, Well-known =/= Memorable.

I've watched the Spiderman movies, even played a game or two. I know of him, but he isn't so memorable to me.

Pikachu is memorable because he has such a simple design. A yellow mouse that shoots thunderbolts, who repeats his own name. He was designed specifically to be simple and memorable, so the games would appeal to younger children.

I'm not sure I know what you mean here, so I'm going out on a limb and saying Pokemon 5A/5B are the next-gen successors to Diamond and Pearl...

... which are going to come out AFTER NSMBWii, allowing the latter a fair lead.

It still won't stand a chance. You also have to remember, Mario is a rolling stone at this stage, it has picked up plenty of spin-offs and other genres in its 28 years. Pokemon, in contrast, is very new to the spin-off wagon - up until the 3rd gen, there were almost none, and it wasn't really until the 4th gen they became widespread. Pokemon will accelerate much faster than Mario.

I would also like to point out that MKWii somewhat beat MKDS in terms of sales, , and that D&P barely outsold it. NSMBW could end up mirroring MKWii and outselling its DS version.

Possibly, but I find this unlikely. Handheld games as a rough rule of thumb sell more than their console equivalents, because more people have handhelds. MKWii is an exception, because Nintendo advertised the **** out of it in comparison to MKDS - I never saw an advert in my country for MKDS, and I never stopped seeing MKWii adverts, you can still see them on some channels now.

I'm not making a bet, but I'm convinced that there is a fair chance of you being wrong.

I may be a tad fast/slow in my prediction, but Pokemon will eventually outsell Mario. This is basically a fact by now, it is just a matter of how long.

Am I to believe that if Nintendo released a MKDS2 and MKDS3 (EDIT: I meant NSMB2 and NSMB3), that the three DS Pokemon games would be left in the dust?

This is unfair. NSMB2 and NSMB3 would actually be very different games. The three Pokemon games are identical except for a slight difference in the choice of Pokemon, and a minor storyline change in Platinum that's basically irrelevant to actual play. They are the same game and should be classed as much. I've seen more difference between regional versions of a game, like Symphony of the Night and the Japanese Nocturne in the Moonlight, than I have of the Pokemon games. If NSMB2 and NSMB3 consisted of sixteen Goombas having been changed to Koopas, and they were released like that, I don't think they would outsell DPPt, simply because people buy D and P and Pt to catch all the Pokemon, where as nobody gives a damn about a minor change in enemies in Mario.

This is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Sold More = Well-Known =/= Memorable.

Well, to an extent, it does. The better known something is, the more chance people will remember it. And, if we are judging totally on memorability, and the popularity of the game is irrelevant, none of Mario, Link or Pikachu would win, it would blatantly be Giygas, because once you realise what Giygas is, you **** bricks and can't sleep for a few weeks.

Irrelevant. Completely.

Unless you're willing to tell me that Wii Fit and Nintendogs are two of the most memorable games of all timez.

Well, yes, they are. Wii Fit isn't really a game in the sense others are at all, so it is memorable for being so different, and because every woman above the age of 20 in the whole ****ing country wants one, and Nintendogs is memorable for being a vile piece of insidious attempts at conquering the affections of small girls.

Besides, Pokemon RBYG actually is the best-selling non-packaged game of all time. Wii Sports has only conquered it because it came packaged. If the Pokemon games came packaged with Nintendo's new handheld, it would be unstoppable.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Pikachu is memorable because he has such a simple design. A yellow mouse that shoots thunderbolts, who repeats his own name. He was designed specifically to be simple and memorable, so the games would appeal to younger children.

Oh cmon!

That's a description applicable to Mario as well (except for the "yellow mouse" thing but you get my idea).

Plumber that does everything but. It's kinda odd if you think about it .

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Possibly, but I find this unlikely. Handheld games as a rough rule of thumb sell more than their console equivalents, because more people have handhelds. MKWii is an exception, because Nintendo advertised the **** out of it in comparison to MKDS - I never saw an advert in my country for MKDS, and I never stopped seeing MKWii adverts, you can still see them on some channels now.

How hard did they advertise MKWii? I never saw any...

Also, chances are they'll advertise the **** out of NSMBWii as well. They want it to be a potent killer-app, so I don't see whe they won't advertise it like they did for MKWii.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

This is unfair. NSMB2 and NSMB3 would actually be very different games. The three Pokemon games are identical except for a slight difference in the choice of Pokemon, and a minor storyline change in Platinum that's basically irrelevant to actual play. They are the same game and should be classed as much. I've seen more difference between regional versions of a game, like Symphony of the Night and the Japanese Nocturne in the Moonlight, than I have of the Pokemon games. If NSMB2 and NSMB3 consisted of sixteen Goombas having been changed to Koopas, and they were released like that, I don't think they would outsell DPPt, simply because people buy D and P and Pt to catch all the Pokemon, where as nobody gives a damn about a minor change in enemies in Mario.

How about a change more similar to SMB --> SMB2 --> SMB3?

And you'd be surprised how popular 2D Mario platformers are.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Well, to an extent, it does. The better known something is, the more chance people will remember it. And, if we are judging totally on memorability, and the popularity of the game is irrelevant, none of Mario, Link or Pikachu would win, it would blatantly be Giygas, because once you realise what Giygas is, you **** bricks and can't sleep for a few weeks.

We're asking who's more memorable out of Mario and Link. The obvious answer is Mario.

And then you brought this irrelevant Pikachu **** (pardon my Spanish) to this discussion, and I gladly adapted.

I am not basing the memorability of Mario on the commercial success of his games. I am basing it on the content of his games. Even if Mario sold less than Pokemon, he'd still be more memorable.

Pretty much all of what you'll find in either Mario Galaxy game would be far more memorable than anything Pokemon-related (not dissing Pokemon here, but you get me).

Now, I haven't played the Mother games, so I can't speak for Giygas. But Mario is far more memorable than Pikachu, no matter how much more he is well known.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Well, yes, they are. Wii Fit isn't really a game in the sense others are at all, so it is memorable for being so different, and because every woman above the age of 20 in the whole ****ing country wants one, and Nintendogs is memorable for being a vile piece of insidious attempts at conquering the affections of small girls.

Oh god. You're pretty desperate to prove me wrong here, aren't you? You can't let me have one moment, can you? *fake tears*

Wii Fit wasn't designed to be memorable, it was designed to be a fun game that you could pick up and put down at any time. Memorable games usually don't have the latter quality, since they usually inspire the emotions so much that it's harder to put the game down.

"Every woman above... 20 wants one". Again, Well-known =/= memorable.

Nintendogs, I'll give you that as a possibility. But can you honestly tell me that Nintendogs and Wii Fit are more memorable than Mario?


Sorry if I came on a bit rough. I have exams, and it's incredibly stressful.

Mario. The little crazy italian man, Who has an obsession with. " Heeeree we goooo!"

Mostly it would have to be Mario because I've played Super Mario world when I got my SNES with it.

Originally Posted by Double A

Oh cmon!

That's a description applicable to Mario as well (except for the "yellow mouse" thing but you get my idea).

Plumber that does everything but. It's kinda odd if you think about it .

I'd still describe Pikachu as more memorable. For example, he's much easier to draw and replicate.

How hard did they advertise MKWii? I never saw any...

Also, chances are they'll advertise the **** out of NSMBWii as well. They want it to be a potent killer-app, so I don't see whe they won't advertise it like they did for MKWii.

Here? Very. There are quite a few MKWii adverts, but there was never an MKDS advert. However, there have been quite a few NSMBDS adverts, so while the NSMBWii adverts have started (quite recently in fact), there's not quite so much an advertising gap as between MKWii and MKDS.

How about a change more similar to SMB --> SMB2 --> SMB3?

And you'd be surprised how popular 2D Mario platformers are.

The change from SMB to SMB2 to SMB3 is a vast, titanic, huge change compared to the change between, say, Red and Yellow. And no, I wouldn't be surprised, I'm aware how popular they are. I'm also aware Pokemon is more popular.

We're asking who's more memorable out of Mario and Link. The obvious answer is Mario.

And then you brought this irrelevant Pikachu **** (pardon my Spanish) to this discussion, and I gladly adapted.

I am not basing the memorability of Mario on the commercial success of his games. I am basing it on the content of his games. Even if Mario sold less than Pokemon, he'd still be more memorable.

Pretty much all of what you'll find in either Mario Galaxy game would be far more memorable than anything Pokemon-related (not dissing Pokemon here, but you get me).

Now, I haven't played the Mother games, so I can't speak for Giygas. But Mario is far more memorable than Pikachu, no matter how much more he is well known.

I'm basing the memorability on how many people will remember it from a past encounter. People are more likely to have had a past encounter with Pikachu, therefore there will likely be a higher number of people who remember him.

Oh god. You're pretty desperate to prove me wrong here, aren't you? You can't let me have one moment, can you? *fake tears*

Pot called kettle black?

Wii Fit wasn't designed to be memorable, it was designed to be a fun game that you could pick up and put down at any time. Memorable games usually don't have the latter quality, since they usually inspire the emotions so much that it's harder to put the game down.

Now you're the one talking nonsense. Memorability is of not wanting to put the game down. I remember Superman 64 for being unmitigated ****e. I remember Wii Fit for being aimed at superannuated females.

"Every woman above... 20 wants one". Again, Well-known =/= memorable.

Nintendogs, I'll give you that as a possibility. But can you honestly tell me that Nintendogs and Wii Fit are more memorable than Mario?

Will more people, if you ask them "do you know of the franchise Wii Fit" remember it?

Originally Posted by Double A

Mario. Easily

There've been better final boss tracks in games with arguably less memorable characters. To be fair.

Granted, that link of yours speaks for SMG's soundtrack being the best to ever hit a Mario game, and possibly all of Nintendo (and not just cuz it was orchestral).

The way I see it, Mickey Mouse is the most memorable character in Cartoons, and Mario is his counterpart in the Video Game industry. Link is great, but Mario's got a bigger fan base (which partially includes my sisters and parents. They like the simple dynamics of a video game character that simply runs around and jumps. Link is too complicated for them "Too many weapons" to quote my older syster).

This not only goes for the main protagonist, the popularity also extends to the villains. I'm sure if I went to a mall and held out a picture of Ganon and Bowser, I'm sure more people of all ages would be able to identify Bowser (of course younger crowds would know both, however the older crowd may only know one) as "Bowser" or "King Koopa".

-BGS

I'd say Mario is a more memorable character for Nintendo, seeing as he's the one character that started it all, and 20-something years later, he's still living large, going strong, and continuing to entertain us.

Seeing as though Link didn't come out until 1988, which was much after the original Mario Bros, he can't be considered memorable, but he is one of the biggest names in gaming. But yeah, Mario can outshine him. Sorry, Link!

But yeah, for the most part, I agree with what BGS said about this poll.

Choosing from Link or Mario, I'd say Mario. Most people seem to know about Mario more than Link. I've noticed plenty know about Zelda, but nothing about the characters. People tend to know about Mario and Luigi though, even Yoshi, from what I've seen.

If I could vote for Pokémon though, I would - it's obviously more popular than Mario, though Mario is close.

Memorable: Mario > Pikachu > Link

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I'd still describe Pikachu as more memorable. For example, he's much easier to draw and replicate.

The word "Aglet" is far more memorable than any videogame character, then.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Here? Very. There are quite a few MKWii adverts, but there was never an MKDS advert. However, there have been quite a few NSMBDS adverts, so while the NSMBWii adverts have started (quite recently in fact), there's not quite so much an advertising gap as between MKWii and MKDS.

If not, Nintendo are making a big mistake.

But there's still a couple days. Things could change.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I'm basing the memorability on how many people will remember it from a past encounter. People are more likely to have had a past encounter with Pikachu, therefore there will likely be a higher number of people who remember him.

I'm basing memorability on what that character has done that you remember.

Pikachu has nothing, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Pot called kettle black?

Rabid song pie explosion.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Now you're the one talking nonsense. Memorability is of not wanting to put the game down. I remember Superman 64 for being unmitigated ****e. I remember Wii Fit for being aimed at superannuated females.

Superman 64's ****tiness was memorable.

But Wii fit is forgettable. Apart from the name, cover design and balance board, it's difficult to remember things from that game.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Will more people, if you ask them "do you know of the franchise Wii Fit" remember it?

Of course they'll remember the name.

But chances are, if you got them to play a half-hour of Wii Fit, and a half hour of any Mario platformer, chances are they'll better recall the platformer.

Originally Posted by Blaine

Seeing as though Link didn't come out until 1988, which was much after the original Mario Bros, he can't be considered memorable, but he is one of the biggest names in gaming. But yeah, Mario can outshine him. Sorry, Link!

'86 actually. Which is incidentally only a year after Super Mario Bros.

Originally Posted by Double A

Superman 64's ****tiness was memorable.

But Wii fit is forgettable. Apart from the name, cover design and balance board, it's difficult to remember things from that game.

I always figured a better term was "notorious", but I do suppose that notoriety is memorability in and of itself.

Wii Fit is like Twilight to me; Never touched it, and based on what consists of the consumers, I don't plan on it.

Without a shadow of doubt, it has got to be Link! Zelda games are more epic, challenging with great storylines and a kick ass hero! Link rules :-D