Playstation 3 Motion Controller + Eye Announced

Yeah, this is kind of the in-between device. Doesn't make it any less neat though. Looks like this thing'll be pretty accurate.

I think this thing has a lot of potential. It looks less stupid and gimmicky than the WiiMote and 360's NATAL. And it needs no add like the WM+ to be fast responding and accurate. Yes, it always looks better on stage but I'm sure they'll make it just as accurate when we go to pick it up. And this could be good for series like MGS, GTA, and such.

Originally Posted by KeeSomething

The tech demo was very interesting. Wii may end up having the most limited motion control hardware of the 3 consoles in the end.

Most limited in terms of technology, yes, but unless Sony can map their core first-party games to it, Wiimotes will always have the better motion games.

Originally Posted by Double A

Most limited in terms of technology, yes, but unless Sony can map their core first-party games to it, Wiimotes will always have the better motion games.

How do you figure that? Even if Sony don't use it in their first party games, it's still better technology. It just wouldn't be being used in the best places in that instance.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

How do you figure that? Even if Sony don't use it in their first party games, it's still better technology. It just wouldn't be being used in the best places in that instance.

I mean that Nintendo will most likely implement WM+ into Zelda and possibly Mario and Metroid, and since Nintendo's first party is the best of them all in terms of quantity (cmon, you all know it) and quality (OoT, SMG), MotionPlus will definitely find its way into the hands of many "hardcore" Wii owners, an audience which can be taken advantage of whenever a core game is made for the Wii involving WM+. This level of "pushing" most likely won't be seen with the Sony Motion Controller.

I can imagine that it could happen, core games being published for the Motion Controller, but the fact that there are almost 2x as many Wiis in houses than PS3s, and that Nintendo are making the motion control found in the Wiimote the top priority in terms of control, I doubt that the PS3MC will have a threateningly high market penetration.

TL;DR version: Sean Malstrom.

Double A did a Double Post.

C WUT I DID THAR???

Originally Posted by Double A

This level of "pushing" most likely won't be seen with the Sony Motion Controller.

That's probably because you're being a Nintendo fanboy.

I can imagine that it could happen, core games being published for the Motion Controller, but the fact that there are almost 2x as many Wiis in houses than PS3s, and that Nintendo are making the motion control found in the Wiimote the top priority in terms of control, I doubt that the PS3MC will have a threateningly high market penetration.

It doesn't matter about sales if you're a gamer. They don't have to steal the market, since it's not a very good one anyway. You're just saying "well I doubt it" because you 'don't think' it'll happen.

Anyway, it's not like Nintendo are miles ahead of the other two. They barely put any motion controls into TP or SMG because they weren't very good (motion capabilities). If Nintendo is going to take longer than three years to put real motion controls into games like Zelda, then what's to say that Sony and Microsoft won't take three years or much less to do the same in their games?

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

That's probably because you're being a Nintendo fanboy.

Sigh...

Do you really think that Sony can integrate the PS3MC (expensive) onto its core games at the same rate that Nintendo could integrate WM+ (cheap) onto its core games?

Third parties most likely won't begin to put full effort aimed at the core onto the games on the PS3MC unless they see that it has good sales. Sony can only provoke good sales by using a first party lineup. This would involve great change to franchises in Sony's first party, which many gamers would not welcome, because they would have to buy a seperate controller just to play one game.

Thus, unless Sony gets lucky, Sony won't be seeing much core-related success with the PS3MC. But maybe they can pull off another EyeToy...

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

It doesn't matter about sales if you're a gamer. They don't have to steal the market, since it's not a very good one anyway. You're just saying "well I doubt it" because you 'don't think' it'll happen.

Anyway, it's not like Nintendo are miles ahead of the other two. They barely put any motion controls into TP or SMG because they weren't very good (motion capabilities). If Nintendo is going to take longer than three years to put real motion controls into games like Zelda, then what's to say that Sony and Microsoft won't take three years or much less to do the same in their games?

Bad sales on PS3MC = games which are generally of lower qualiity for it, because the developers can see the classic PS3 controller as a far better alternative, because far more people have it.

I'm saying that I believe that Natal and PS3MC will not sell good, and this will repel M-soft and Sony from putting a lot of core-oriented effort onto their motion sensors, resulting in games which are lower in quality than the games which can be played by the Dualshock/360controller, as many more people will have them.

Most hardcore gamers I know gave up on the wii after waiting an entire year for nothing. I doubt most gamers would get a wii-motion plus. It was basically what they advertised when they released the wii to begin with though.

Originally Posted by Double A

Sigh...

Do you really think that Sony can integrate the PS3MC (expensive) onto its core games at the same rate that Nintendo could integrate WM+ (cheap) onto its core games?

What does the 'same rate' have to do with quality? You were saying Nintendo's were always going to be better.

Third parties most likely won't begin to put full effort aimed at the core onto the games on the PS3MC unless they see that it has good sales. Sony can only provoke good sales by using a first party lineup. This would involve great change to franchises in Sony's first party, which many gamers would not welcome, because they would have to buy a seperate controller just to play one game.

That was the case with the Wii. How long did it take to get some half decent third party Wii games that weren't complete crap (and used Motion Plus)? And wow. Yeah, they're going to buy the Sony Wand for the single game that's made for it.

You have to have one game at the start. This is the exact same with the Wii. The only difference is, this technology is better, but it's been used later. Also, they're not aiming and the same cheap market as what Nintendo are.

Thus, unless Sony gets lucky, Sony won't be seeing much core-related success with the PS3MC. But maybe they can pull off another EyeToy...

HAHA I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

Bad sales on PS3MC = games which are generally of lower qualiity for it, because the developers can see the classic PS3 controller as a far better alternative, because far more people have it.

You have no idea what you're saying. Plus, if you did, this counts for your entire Wii argument too. "Developers can see the classic Gamecube controller as a far better alternative, because far more people have it". Christ man, this thing has just started. It's not going to be ignored by everyone, are you completely nuts?

I'm saying that I believe that Natal and PS3MC will not sell good, and this will repel M-soft and Sony from putting a lot of core-oriented effort onto their motion sensors, resulting in games which are lower in quality than the games which can be played by the Dualshock/360controller, as many more people will have them.

Completely flawed argument. "Motion controlled games are worse because more people have normal controllers". None of you arguments have anything to do with quality, only sales (which you have no idea about, but considering the Wii's success and this is better, are you nuts?) and the dumb idea of "developers like controllers lol".

You simply cannot say Natal and SonyMC will fail, when you're arguing that Motion Plus will not fail. It's motion controls (Natal without a controller at all with voice recognition and facial recognition too) that surpass the quality and capabilities of Motion Plus, only on HD consoles with much better online and connectivity services, video and music services, much more well made DLC, as well as having a more "hardcore" library. How the hell is that not going to work?

I don't have any idea about how big they're going to be success wise, but I know that both companies wouldn't put so much effort into both things, which are huge, and just leave them. Seriously, I think you're just a Nintendo fanboy with your current argument.

It looks awesome but for some reason I think it may just become a gimmick.

Edit: Also to all those people (The Goron Moron) thinking that Nintendo will be ruined because now people will buy ps3 for motion control, think again, as long as Nintendo keeps the price on the wii low then you'll here more torie from old people about how they went out and bought the nintendo playstation from the nice colored fellow at Wal*Mart and how they can bowl with it and many other things. I don't see geriatric people going out and buying a ps3 plus an eyetoy and those controllers. Also Nintendo still has the market of people who buy nintendo to spite the other companies ( you fit in this group).

I have to say that that thing looks really, really good. Sure, it could end up being a huge gimmick that does nothing, but it could also wind up making some amazing games. Way, way better than Natal, anyway. At least over here they have buttons, Natal is just...bleah. Can't really imagine that making any games I'd really enjoy : \

But uhhh, how accurate is Wii Motion+ compared to this?

Because it's only trying to eat on Nintendo's market, it's going to be a total flop. Sorry Sony, you were too slow, gimmicks suck no matter how good they are.

How can something suck if it's good? I get what you're saying, but gaming honestly won't stay with controllers for ever. If nothing more, this is a valiant effort, and an impressive one at that, of moving things even further forward.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

What does the 'same rate' have to do with quality? You were saying Nintendo's were always going to be better.

I was saying that the core games released for MotionPlus will end up better than the games released for PS3MC due to a chain of very specific events.

I've already mentioned this chain of events twice.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

That was the case with the Wii. How long did it take to get some half decent third party Wii games that weren't complete crap (and used Motion Plus)? And wow. Yeah, they're going to buy the Sony Wand for the single game that's made for it.

Birdmen and the Casual Fallacy

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

You simply cannot say Natal and SonyMC will fail, when you're arguing that Motion Plus will not fail. It's motion controls (Natal without a controller at all with voice recognition and facial recognition too) that surpass the quality and capabilities of Motion Plus, only on HD consoles with much better online and connectivity services, video and music services, much more well made DLC, as well as having a more "hardcore" library. How the hell is that not going to work?

Yes I can.

You claim that SonyMC won't fail because PS3 has HD graphics, better online, video and music, DLC and a more "hardcore" library.

First off, half the things you said had nothing to do with motion controls.

I'm not saying that will definitely fail. I'm saying that they will fail if Sony and MS don't put the same level of priority to their motion controls as Nintendo does. I also said that that level of priority is unlikely due to many aforementioned reasons, and that this would lead to generally poorer games than the games that can be played with the classic PS3 controller.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

I don't have any idea about how big they're going to be success wise, but I know that both companies wouldn't put so much effort into both things, which are huge, and just leave them. Seriously, I think you're just a Nintendo fanboy with your current argument.

Yes they would. They can afford it.


I won't explain myself again unless specifically asked to. I have a slight headache.

Also, can someone tell me what SonyMC can do that WM+ can't? Atleast link me to a video.

Originally Posted by Double A

Yes I can.

You claim that SonyMC won't fail because PS3 has HD graphics, better online, video and music, DLC and a more "hardcore" library.

First off, half the things you said had nothing to do with motion controls.

My point is, it does have all of those things, as well as better motion control technology. How can't you see that? If the PS3 had the same graphics, similar library, no DVD playback, pretty poor internet and the tiny HDD, it would be a much, much harder task for Sony to come close to winning. However, since the PS3 is better in every way in terms of hardware, and now their motion controller is better than Nintendo's Wiimote and MotionPlus, there's no way for you to possibly think that Nintendo is doing better.

I will only be proved wrong when Sony and MS put the same level of priority to their motioncontrols as Nintendo.

That's the difference. Both Sony and Microsoft have these motion controls that are leagues better than even Nintendo's MotionPlus, and on top of that they have their amazing library of 'regular' console games, that you're playing today with your buttoned controllers. They have both forms of gameplay on one console to compliment each other, and on top of that, the Natal and Dual Wands compliment each other on an even higher level. Nintendo's MotionPlus, however, is just a worse version of the Dual Wands.

Yes they would. They can afford it.

Don't be so stupid. Please, think. They didn't announce an EyeToy and xboxlive Vision Camera. They announced a full, true 1:1 controller with unmatched depth perception, and a full body motion sensor with facial recognition and voice recognition as well. Anyone who isn't a Nintendo fanboy knows this.

Also, can someone tell me what SonyMC can do that WM+ can't? Atleast link me to a video.

LOL. Did you watch their conferences? You know, Microsoft and Sony's? Or were you only interested in Nintendo's, and are butthurt and BAWWWWWing because both companies just overtook Nintendo's progress in literally two days?

Now this part is in favour of your argument, but not in a completely dumb way like you're saying. If Nintendo put out some really solid AAA titles that incorporate MotionPlus, they have a chance. Let's just say for whatever reason that the Natal works just as well as it's promised, only it isn't used in Halo or something like that, and the Dual Wands work better than MotionPlus only aren't used in their God of Wars, then Nintendo would be doing well. The thing is though, if they don't make AAA titles (with amazing third party support pulling off the same stuff), they're going to fall so far behind it's just not funny. On top of that, if Sony and Microsoft actually do put out AA and AAA games using these new technologies, Nintendo does not stand a chance.

What would Nintendo do then? They can't put out another peripheral to enhance the sensitivity or put out another controller, they already have a **** load of stuff to try and make that all work already. A new console? They can't do that either, they're still selling the Wii and don't plan on stopping any time soon. They're just going down hill from there.

tl;dr (I suspect you'll use this), Microsoft and Sony have much, much better systems and now much, much better motion controllers - the only thing Nintendo has are first party games. They're really great. The only problem is though, they can't put them out 10 times a year. Even then, Microsoft and Sony quite obviously have first party games, as well as much better third party support, and they're really great too. Lastly, Sony and Microsoft aren't aiming completely at the casual market, and want to make these be utilized in hardcore games. They made this reasonably obvious in their conferences. This means better quality than a tennis game on the Wii.

^

Yes, Sony and Microsoft definitely win on the hardware front. Nintendo has made great games and still does, but they've been behind hardware-wise since the N64 days.

N64-no discs, PS1 does
Gamecube- no online, Xbox and PS2 do
Wii- no HD capabilties, other consoles do

The only time Nintendo really got ahead in hardware was with motion controls. That did attract lots of new consumers, so it's obvious Sony and Microsoft would try and 1up them. It's smart business.

I really wish Sony and Nintendo had never had that spat over that SNES CD add-on project and had joined hands to make amazing consoles. Nintendo's great first party games and Sony's great hardware would work well together.

Why do I keep double posting?

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

My point is, it does have all of those things, as well as better motion control technology. How can't you see that? If the PS3 had the same graphics, similar library, no DVD playback, pretty poor internet and the tiny HDD, it would be a much, much harder task for Sony to come close to winning. However, since the PS3 is better in every way in terms of hardware, and now their motion controller is better than Nintendo's Wiimote and MotionPlus, there's no way for you to possibly think that Nintendo is doing better.

Better in terms of what?

1. Sony's MC will never have near as many owners as WM+, because of its inevitably higher price point, and the fact that Nintendo will have more first party (core and casual, the latter of which Nintendo OWNS) on it.

2. Zelda (and possibly Mario and Metroid) will make appearances on WM+ because it's part of Nintendo's plan. They will force WM+ conpatibility onto those games. With Sony, and I'm not saying that this is definite (just likely), the fact is that I believe that they think it's too risky to make games like God of War have a radically different control scheme which involves buying a seperate controller. This isn't so much an issue with WM+ because its relatively cheap. I also believe that this controller is not Sony's main priority, because of how deep they've buried themselves in classic gaming (all because they released the classic controller WITH the PS3).

3. Since when has more advanced technology helped sell hardware? You're claiming that Sony has made some kind of revolution by making Wiimote + WM-plus, but only more precise.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

That's the difference. Both Sony and Microsoft have these motion controls that are leagues better than even Nintendo's MotionPlus, and on top of that they have their amazing library of 'regular' console games, that you're playing today with your buttoned controllers. They have both forms of gameplay on one console to compliment each other, and on top of that, the Natal and Dual Wands compliment each other on an even higher level. Nintendo's MotionPlus, however, is just a worse version of the Dual Wands.

And you're telling me that this will somehow kill the Wii?

I won't explain myself again, probably.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

LOL. Did you watch their conferences? You know, Microsoft and Sony's? Or were you only interested in Nintendo's, and are butthurt and BAWWWWWing because both companies just overtook Nintendo's progress in literally two days?

1. School, exams, really busy

2. I didn't even watch any of the conferences. I just glanced at a couple of summaries.

Yeah, I know, I seem ignorant, but remember, Sean Malstrom, one of the few who accurately predicted the success of the Wii itself, predicted that this was coming. I am merely using his logic.

I am not butthurt that Sony copied WM+(x2) and that MS improved Eyetoy. I believe that there is more potential in them than in the Wiimote+WM. It's just the business applied to them. If Sony puts this MC on the highest priority, then they have a chance. I am merely saying that I find it unlikely that Sony will put something as big as God of War on Dual Wand exclusive controls. I am also saying that if Sony does not get major first-party franchises on it, it will eventually flop in the eyes of the Hardcore.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

Now this part is in favour of your argument, but not in a completely dumb way like you're saying. If Nintendo put out some really solid AAA titles that incorporate MotionPlus, they have a chance. Let's just say for whatever reason that the Natal works just as well as it's promised, only it isn't used in Halo or something like that, and the Dual Wands work better than MotionPlus only aren't used in their God of Wars, then Nintendo would be doing well. The thing is though, if they don't make AAA titles (with amazing third party support pulling off the same stuff), they're going to fall so far behind it's just not funny. On top of that, if Sony and Microsoft actually do put out AA and AAA games using these new technologies, Nintendo does not stand a chance.

My point is that 3rd parties, for the most part, won't "jump on the bandwagon" if they don't see good sales on the Wands. Sony can, for the most part, provoke good sales with their first party lineup. However, I don't believe they will do it. If they did, they would most likely not take a risk and allow both Wand and classic controller compatibility. But look, do you really think that if this happened, would most of the God of War owners go out and buy another controller just to play this? Or would they just play it on the classic controller?

The poor 3rd-party support for the Wii in general can be explained by the Birdmen article I posted a link to earlier.

Originally Posted by GK: 4895/9999

tl;dr (I suspect you'll use this), Microsoft and Sony have much, much better systems and now much, much better motion controllers - the only thing Nintendo has are first party games. They're really great. The only problem is though, they can't put them out 10 times a year. Even then, Microsoft and Sony quite obviously have first party games, as well as much better third party support, and they're really great too. Lastly, Sony and Microsoft aren't aiming completely at the casual market, and want to make these be utilized in hardcore games. They made this reasonably obvious in their conferences. This means better quality than a tennis game on the Wii.

I am not saying anything definitely, remember that. I am only speaking in terms of what I find most likely.

Remember, Nintendo announced WM+ early, in anticipation for this. That is the entire reason for Nintendo's E3 2008. It also means that developers will be more familiar with WM+ by the time Sony and MS released their offerings.

Originally Posted by Double A

Better in terms of what?

1. Sony's MC will never have near as many owners as WM+, because of its inevitably higher price point, and the fact that Nintendo will have more first party (core and casual, the latter of which Nintendo OWNS) on it.

2. Zelda (and possibly Mario and Metroid) will make appearances on WM+ because it's part of Nintendo's plan. They will force WM+ conpatibility onto those games. With Sony, and I'm not saying that this is definite (just likely), the fact is that I believe that it's too risky to make games like God of War have a radically different control scheme which involves buying a seperate controller. This isn't so much an issue with WM+ because its relatively cheap. I also believe that this controller is not Sony's main priority.

3. Since when has more advanced technology helped sell hardware? You're claiming that Sony has made some kind of revolution by making Wiimote + WM-plus, but only more precise.

Wait, I'll finish this post later, gotta take a bath.

Better in terms of advancements in technology.

More advanced technology attracts new customers. People buy new TVs and computers when they start selling upgraded models. The same logic applies here.