A Third Game in the Fire Emblem Tellius Series?

Originally Posted by Jeff

Then you didn't follow the story well, at all. There's plenty of diversity in the Beorc lands alone as shown by RD, between the differing sides of all the various authorities. Like how in Crimea, many of the nobles and vassals can't stand Elincia, while much of the general public is okay with her. The overall aristocratic feel to Begnion, where there's a select group of the highly corrupt who go against everything the Apostle actually wants. Then of course is the reaction to the war we see in Daein, a complete 180 perspective from PoR.

9 and 10 clearly were about having a few dynamic characters followed up by boatloads of static characters who's primary purprose in regards to storytelling or world-building was to support the main characters and show off the incredibly diverse world of Tellius, which is one of the largest in the series at that. Both games succeeded at that, and it may not be your cup of tea compared to other FE plots, but they provided a solid story and universe for it take place in.

I followed the story much better than you think, actually. My favorite part of RD is, without a doubt, Part 2, for the reasons you have stated. However, it is incredibly short. you can't justify 40+ chapters of a game with only 5 chapters of actual involved storyline.

Part 1 was disgusting, not so much because of the plot but because of the horribly bland characters. And even the plot wasn't incredibly amazing, since it was basically an abridged version of PoR, only with all the interesting things from PoR removed.

And now we get to part 3. The main focus on the game, without a doubt. And what is it about? "HURR DURR DURR! I R TEH LAGUZ AND I IZ KILLING TEH FILTHY HUMANZ BECUZ DEY DID ME RONG THINGZ!" I mean, the only interesting laguz race is, ironically, the traitorous raven clan, since they have something going on with them BESIDES the obvious Beorc hate.

And then Begnion goes. "KILL TEH SUB-HUMANZ!" perhaps a horrible oversimplification, but a major part of FE9 and 10 was racial conflict, and this is racial conflict. Sometimes, i felt that the only reason they were ever fighting was because of this.

i was far more interested in what Crimea and Daein were doing over what the whole laguz alliance ever did. They actually had something else BESIDES racial hate involving them in the war. too bad they only got a few chapters for themselves, there wasn't enough time to fully develop on those ideas. Especially from the Daein side. I mean, if you're going to act the martyr, at least shine for a while, it might be interesting.

then part 4 came, where the game just crashed and burned. Sure, the epic plot twist was awesome, but that was the only relevant thing in the whole part. it was all "HURR DURR DURR! WE'RE FIGHTINGFIGHTINGFIGHTING EACH OTH- oh wait, we're friends now." kinda weak, imo. apparently they completely forgot their racial differences, their past war, the atrocities done by each side, and decided to frolic through the flowers on their way to Ashera's Tower. I could almost see them skipping on a yellow brick road. Inconsistent much? In fact, the only parts worthwhile from Part 4 was anything involving the Senate's history of evil.

there was so much potential with Radiant Dawn. And they killed it by focusing so much on the racial conflict. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have some sort of influence, but there should be other things besides that. Everything was so focused on showing us the racial conflict, that all the other aspects of Tellius were overshadowed, making the game a preachy tale of the evils of racism instead of the epic quest for a continent to overcome the diverse conflicts it is subject to.

Crimea and Daein was one of the very few good parts in FE10, and one of the parts I did actually quite like.

Originally posted by Lady Ranny
Oh. I never thought of it that way.

For future reference, always remember that you can do a lot more with sex than make a baby.

Jeff makes very good points, guys. Listen to his wisdom.

Please stop.

Originally posted by Moronic Rascal
Part 1 was disgusting, not so much because of the plot but because of the horribly bland characters. And even the plot wasn't incredibly amazing, since it was basically an abridged version of PoR, only with all the interesting things from PoR removed

So, the whole thing about being shown a completely different perspective of Daein from the first game meant nothing? That's kinda bull****, because not only did it show the country has being far more human than was let on in PoR, but we also see the corruption from Begnion. We were essentially shown a very real reaction to the conclusion of a war.

And now we get to part 3. The main focus on the game, without a doubt. And what is it about? "HURR DURR DURR! I R TEH LAGUZ AND I IZ KILLING TEH FILTHY HUMANZ BECUZ DEY DID ME RONG THINGZ!" I mean, the only interesting laguz race is, ironically, the traitorous raven clan, since they have something going on with them BESIDES the obvious Beorc hate.

And then Begnion goes. "KILL TEH SUB-HUMANZ!" perhaps a horrible oversimplification, but a major part of FE9 and 10 was racial conflict, and this is racial conflict. Sometimes, i felt that the only reason they were ever fighting was because of this.

i was far more interested in what Crimea and Daein were doing over what the whole laguz alliance ever did. They actually had something else BESIDES racial hate involving them in the war.

It's called a theme, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the games focusing on it, that's a good thing. When you have a strong message in your story and you center around that so much, it makes it worthwhile. Maybe you don't like it, but that's not a decent reason to say it's crap. The problems of racism make for a great motif that was largely untouched by video games before Por and RD, and they handled it quite well. What more, they did so pretty realistically in terms of how the different populations react. The Laguz in Part 3 of RD are a good comparison to the Native Americans in Pontiac's Rebellion.

too bad they only got a few chapters for themselves, there wasn't enough time to fully develop on those ideas. Especially from the Daein side. I mean, if you're going to act the martyr, at least shine for a while, it might be interesting.

Daein got plenty of time to shine.

then part 4 came, where the game just crashed and burned. Sure, the epic plot twist was awesome, but that was the only relevant thing in the whole part. it was all "HURR DURR DURR! WE'RE FIGHTINGFIGHTINGFIGHTING EACH OTH- oh wait, we're friends now." kinda weak, imo. apparently they completely forgot their racial differences, their past war, the atrocities done by each side, and decided to frolic through the flowers on their way to Ashera's Tower. I could almost see them skipping on a yellow brick road. Inconsistent much? In fact, the only parts worthwhile from Part 4 was anything involving the Senate's history of evil.

If everything you know is in danger of being eradicated, you're going to take drastic measures to ensure that you survive. The various tribes of Tellius did this, just as it's happened in actual history. It's not as unlikely as you think, and it made for a great twist in the story.

Everything was so focused on showing us the racial conflict, that all the other aspects of Tellius were overshadowed, making the game a preachy tale of the evils of racism instead of the epic quest for a continent to overcome the diverse conflicts it is subject to.

That's just no true, RD itself was entirely about showing the reactions to war from a number of different perspectives. It didn't focus on just one, it let every side make its point. That alone was an awesome achievment in game storytelling, only better that it let us see what made each tribe unique. We see the division in Begnion, Crimea, Daein and certain Laguz races, and usually there's different reasons causing the divide.

Originally Posted by Jeff

So, the whole thing about being shown a completely different perspective of Daein from the first game meant nothing? That's kinda bull****, because not only did it show the country has being far more human than was let on in PoR, but we also see the corruption from Begnion. We were essentially shown a very real reaction to the conclusion of a war.

yes, it meant absolutely nothing. there was nothing unique, nothing that would stand out from their rebellion. Now, don't get me wrong, actually showing Daein's reaction to their defeat was an incredible concept. There was SO MUCH they could have done with it. However, they decided to give us this rehashed and watered-down version of Path of Radiance.

Incredibly good concept, poorly carried out.

I mean, take PoR. Change Crimea to Daein, Daein to Begnion, Elincia with Pelleas, Ike with Micaiah, the Greil Mercenaries with the Dawn Brigade. Remove everything else, and you have Radiant Dawn's Part 1 plot.

And Part 1 didn't even introduce Begnion's corruption. It was introduced way before, back in the Begnion section of Path of Radiance. It was nothing shocking, out of the ordinary, or unique.

It's called a theme, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the games focusing on it, that's a good thing. When you have a strong message in your story and you center around that so much, it makes it worthwhile. Maybe you don't like it, but that's not a decent reason to say it's crap. The problems of racism make for a great motif that was largely untouched by video games before Por and RD, and they handled it quite well. What more, they did so pretty realistically in terms of how the different populations react. The Laguz in Part 3 of RD are a good comparison to the Native Americans in Pontiac's Rebellion.

Themes are good. But just because a theme is good doesn't mean it was carried out particularly well.

And interesting that you mention PoR. Because that game also had that racism theme. It wasn't its main focus, though, the game focused on gaining back Crimea from Daein. And yet, PoR did so much more to expound on the problem than RD ever did. When it comes to the theme of racism, PoR was superior to RD. You actually see how the characters are biased to each other, and how they slowly grow past their differences and learn to accept each other beyond their race. PoR had this masterful writing that is yet to be equaled in any Fire Emblem game, and it did it without the split army parts. :O

Daein got plenty of time to shine.

Not enough. Not enough indeed. I could have done with less Greil Mercenaries. Not only because their plot line was the most uninteresting, but for gameplay reasons too. They are too overpowered for their own good.

If everything you know is in danger of being eradicated, you're going to take drastic measures to ensure that you survive. The various tribes of Tellius did this, just as it's happened in actual history. It's not as unlikely as you think, and it made for a great twist in the story.

Orly?

I'm not saying that they wouldn't work together to save their world. But some wounds run too deep to be forgiven on the spot. There was this whole history of hate between both races, between nations. Things won't simply be forgotten. No matter if they're working together for the greater good, there will still be friction between the peoples, and the trip won't be smooth. It was not realistic in that aspect. It was nothing more than laziness on the writers' part.

It would've been more realistic if the trip to Ashera's tower begun quite rough, with arguments and conflict arising from the different parts. Then, as time passed and they got closer to the tower, they would slowly get past their differences, slowly start seeing that each race/nation wasn't as bad as originally thought. Then, when they arrived to the tower, they were a united bunch of fellas, ready to fight for the future of their world. And that would also have fit more with the whole "racism is bad" thing, because it would have shown that differences aren't necessarily bad, but that we need to learn to accept them as they are.

That's just no true, RD itself was entirely about showing the reactions to war from a number of different perspectives. It didn't focus on just one, it let every side make its point. That alone was an awesome achievment in game storytelling, only better that it let us see what made each tribe unique. We see the division in Begnion, Crimea, Daein and certain Laguz races, and usually there's different reasons causing the divide.

Granted, the multiple viewpoints of Radiant Dawn were a great idea. However, it was poorly carried out. The plot was average at best, and extremely weak at worst. Where they should have expounded, they didn't. Where they should have limited themselves, they expounded. I would have liked to see more of Daein's reactions towards the war they were forced to be a part of. I would have liked to see more of Crimea's problems with their new queen and their t0ugh stand on neutrality. I would have like to see Daein actually grow past their racism and start to accept laguz as equals, because no matter what you say, Daein was still a racist nation. Another tale of Ike and his merry band of heroes was really unnecessary, and yet everything else was pushed back the moment they showed themselves for the first time. By focusing more on Crimea and Daein, they would have made the whole racism theme much more strong and relevant. And yet, they decided to give us Ike and the Greil Mercenaries, who were already past racism, telling us that "racism is bad, very very bad." It would have been more effective if they actually SHOWED us that racism was a bad thing, instead of telling us at every second that Ike appeared with a laguz character.

And another thing. In this game we mostly see racism going one way. As in if it's only Beorc who are racist against Laguz. Usually, racism goes both ways. Something that Path of Radiance ALSO did better than Radiant Dawn. And even without the split viewpoints. Funny, huh?

There was so much POTENTIAL with this game, so much they could have expounded on. And yet, they decided to give us some more of Ike and his Merry Band of Altruistic Heroes. Quite sad, really.

Originally posted by Moronic Rascal
yes, it meant absolutely nothing. there was nothing unique, nothing that would stand out from their rebellion. Now, don't get me wrong, actually showing Daein's reaction to their defeat was an incredible concept. There was SO MUCH they could have done with it. However, they decided to give us this rehashed and watered-down version of Path of Radiance.

Very little of it was rehashed, since unlike PoR we're shown parts where the actual citizens of Daein get to make their prescence known. In PoR, the only Crimeans who have get any of the spotlight are Elincia and the Greil Mercenaries; hardly the nationalistic types (minus the Princess)

And Part 1 didn't even introduce Begnion's corruption. It was introduced way before, back in the Begnion section of Path of Radiance. It was nothing shocking, out of the ordinary, or unique.

A very different type of corruption. In PoR we were shown moral corruption, in RD it was far more social, economic and politically related. Actually, in PoR it was closer to straight discrimination and genocide than corruption.

And interesting that you mention PoR. Because that game also had that racism theme. It wasn't its main focus, though, the game focused on gaining back Crimea from Daein

You don't understand storytelling. Crimea overcoming Daein was the plot. Racism was the theme. The two aren't always directly linked or completely dependant on one another. Racism was definitely the main focus in the message regard.

When it comes to the theme of racism, PoR was superior to RD. You actually see how the characters are biased to each other, and how they slowly grow past their differences and learn to accept each other beyond their race. PoR had this masterful writing that is yet to be equaled in any Fire Emblem game, and it did it without the split army parts. :O

Part 3 of RD says otherwise and can't be argued. We see the effects of the racism once the Laguz have the [best] opportunity to do something about it.

Not enough. Not enough indeed. I could have done with less Greil Mercenaries. Not only because their plot line was the most uninteresting, but for gameplay reasons too. They are too overpowered for their own good.

Play on a Harder difficulty setting, that's the glory of the recent FEs.

I'm not saying that they wouldn't work together to save their world. But some wounds run too deep to be forgiven on the spot. There was this whole history of hate between both races, between nations. Things won't simply be forgotten. No matter if they're working together for the greater good, there will still be friction between the peoples, and the trip won't be smooth. It was not realistic in that aspect.

If it means saving their land and their people, they'll make sure it's smooth and keep things to themselves primarily.

It's happened in historical wars. A lot. Friction doesn't become outrageously apparent and slow things down as much as you think. That's a cliche you've fallen victim to.

Then, as time passed and they got closer to the tower, they would slowly get past their differences, slowly start seeing that each race/nation wasn't as bad as originally thought.

That doesn't help your argument above. Choose your words better next time.

Another tale of Ike and his merry band of heroes was really unnecessary, and yet everything else was pushed back the moment they showed themselves for the first time. By focusing more on Crimea and Daein, they would have made the whole racism theme much more strong and relevant. And yet, they decided to give us Ike and the Greil Mercenaries, who were already past racism, telling us that "racism is bad, very very bad." It would have been more effective if they actually SHOWED us that racism was a bad thing, instead of telling us at every second that Ike appeared with a laguz character.

Ike was there in support of Elincia as well, relating to Part 2.

And they did show racism was bad, that's exactly what the Laguz offensive was. It was a result of Beorc racism, so we had a completely unnecessary conflict while both sides were eventually shown to be in horrible danger. A story isn't always going to talk down to you, that's just bad design.

As in if it's only Beorc who are racist against Laguz. Usually, racism goes both ways.

If you asked an African American slave about his view of white people during the early 1800s, your response wouldn't be racist as a white's would of a black. You don't have a proper understanding of racism or how people react to it.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Very little of it was rehashed, since unlike PoR we're shown parts where the actual citizens of Daein get to make their prescence known. In PoR, the only Crimeans who have get any of the spotlight are Elincia and the Greil Mercenaries; hardly the nationalistic types (minus the Princess)

wait, wut?

regarding playable units, Crimeans back in PoR actually spoke more than Daeins ever spoke in Part 1 of RD, because *GASP*, PoR had worthwhile support conversations.

Also, Ike wasn't such an attention hog as Micaiah was. Most of Part 1 was about poor Micaiah having a hard time. In PoR Ike spoke with most of the members in his army in the base conversations, other members were actively involved in the battles and plot-line, and actually said thing much more relevant to the themes and the plot. And if you say that there wasn't any nationalistic convos in PoR, you are sorely mistaken, since Elincia's retainers are about as nationalistic as you can get, and they were very important characters for the final part of PoR.

in RD, at the most they said something the moment they joined, perhaps even a base conversation, and then they were forgotten. Poor Aran only ever said his recruitment convos and the base convo with Laura. Everything revolved around Micaiah, Sothe, Pelleas, Almedha, and Izuka. Mostly Micaiah and Sothe.

A very different type of corruption. In PoR we were shown moral corruption, in RD it was far more social, economic and politically related. Actually, in PoR it was closer to straight discrimination and genocide than corruption.

I'm pretty sure that Laguz slavery is considered social, economic and political corruption. Especially when it is behind the back of their ruler and was only available to the upper classes.

You don't understand storytelling. Crimea overcoming Daein was the plot. Racism was the theme. The two aren't always directly linked or completely dependant on one another. Racism was definitely the main focus in the message regard.

whoops, little slip! but the point remains the same, there was MORE to the conflict than just simple racism. Racism was THERE, there is no doubt, but other things moved the whole plot. There was already animosity between Daein and Crimea, dealing with the different ideals that each nation held. One regarded Beorc as the superior race and wanted to exterminate Laguz, the other was more tolerant of differences between the different races. Dealing with racism, but not focused on it.

PoR was more of a clash of ideals with racism involved than anything else. Especially when you take into consideration the motives behind Ashnard's acts.

Part 3 of RD says otherwise and can't be argued. We see the effects of the racism once the Laguz have the [best] opportunity to do something about it.

you mean where Laguz are the high and mighty race, who are not prejudiced and are only retaliating to the vicious acts of racist Begnion Senate? Wee, that's deep.

There was some slight showing of racism of Laguz towards Beorc, but it wasn't anywhere near what they were showing of Beorc racism towards Laguz.

Play on a Harder difficulty setting, that's the glory of the recent FEs.

you mean on the difficulty where the Dawn Brigade sucks so much that its even preposterous to claim they'll ever be on the same level that the Greil Mercenaries are? Been there, done that.

If it means saving their land and their people, they'll make sure it's smooth and keep things to themselves primarily.

It's happened in historical wars. A lot. Friction doesn't become outrageously apparent and slow things down as much as you think. That's a cliche you've fallen victim to.

I never said that they were going to be slowed down by conflict. I'm just saying that it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that everything will be fine and dandy. Sure, the leaders can get along in order to achieve a common goal, and they can also control their troops, and most soldiers will keep to their own people, but that doesn't mean that all the soldiers will get past their prejudices instantly.

Ike was there in support of Elincia as well, relating to Part 2.

And they did show racism was bad, that's exactly what the Laguz offensive was. It was a result of Beorc racism, so we had a completely unnecessary conflict while both sides were eventually shown to be in horrible danger. A story isn't always going to talk down to you, that's just bad design.

indeed, it was a result of Beorc racism. So what about Laguz racism? So are Laguz suddenly the enlightened people who will understand that racism is wrong and will try to avoid it all all costs?

If you asked an African American slave about his view of white people during the early 1800s, your response wouldn't be racist as a white's would of a black. You don't have a proper understanding of racism or how people react to it.

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

As long as you think your race is superior to others, it is racism. It isn't limited to one group of people.

What you are telling me is that this guy is not racist just because he's a part of an group of people who were suppressed sometime back in history.

YOU are the one who doesn't have a proper understanding of racism.

I think what Jeff means is that if one race hates another, it's logical for the hated race to begin hating the race that hates them back.

Some beorc hate laguz, and it's shown later that some laguz hate beorc. Lethe for example.

IkexElincia makes a lot of sense if you look at it the way I do. The two held hands, were alone together a lot, Elincia hinted at having a thing for Ike, Shinon accused Ike of having a thing for her, etc. Like I said earlier in the thread. The two also returned to Crimea together at the end of RD. What doesn't make sense is why Ike would suddenly leave and Elincia marry Geoffrey. The hell?

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

IkexElincia makes a lot of sense if you look at it the way I do. The two held hands, were alone together a lot, Elincia hinted at having a thing for Ike, Shinon accused Ike of having a thing for her, etc.

i would like to see where Elincia hinted at liking Ike, because honestly, i have no memory of such an event occuring.

and just because you're accused of something doesn't make it automatically true. :O

Like I said earlier in the thread. The two also returned to Crimea together at the end of RD. What doesn't make sense is why Ike would suddenly leave and Elincia marry Geoffrey. The hell?

gah! not this again!

Elincia had more in common with Geoffrey than with Ike. There was actually some legitimate interest from both Elincia and Geo. Ike wasn't interested in nobility. he never even showed any love interest towards Elincia.

So, uh, about the game...
I mean, really, what rumors are there going around exactly besides "Ike is mildly popular in all territories"? I still don't think a third game is necessary or likely. I do remember the developers saying that at some point they might like to create a game that's full of units from throughout the series. An FE family reunion, as it were. I'll see if I can find the source I heard this from...

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

That's because it's fanfiction. They can't say "I think" the whole way through. :/

And it isn't like I'm going to try passing off my fic as fact anyway. I'm not stupid enough to attempt it lol.

I'm just saying, most people who obsess over their own fanfiction tend to start believing what they wrote is fact, and kinda forget that they totally made it up. This is one of the many reasons I hate "pairings". Totally pointless.
I love putting my own spin on an already-created universe(through comics, animations, whatever), but I tend to tell the story my own way for fun. Fanfiction tends to come off as whining, like "This is how it should have been!"

I loved the RD characters. Not because of there character, although there were some funny moments, but for there sheer abilities (Titania pwns everyone!!!!) They can run in and kill half the army easy.

Originally Posted by Lady Ranny

That's not how I see it. From what I've seen, Ike's more likely to be straight.

Its...just...a...game. Hate to ruin their fun, but you're just making it too easy for them. Stop talking about a game like it actually matters what orientation a poorly rendered model is.

Originally Posted by squall24

Its...just...a...game. Hate to ruin their fun, but you're just making it too easy for them. Stop talking about a game like it actually matters what orientation a poorly rendered model is.

/thread

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

I do remember the developers saying that at some point they might like to create a game that's full of units from throughout the series. An FE family reunion, as it were. I'll see if I can find the source I heard this from...

Found it, it was in Iwata Asks.

Originally Posted by Iwata Asks

So we’re trying to make best use of the characters we’ve had up to now and from these we’re hoping to be able to produce a new game.

Dunno how serious they're being, but it's something to think about.
It'd be.... interesting.... to see all those characters come together.
But none of them will probably be interesting, if there are that many.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Found it, it was in Iwata Asks.
Dunno how serious they're being, but it's something to think about.
It'd be.... interesting.... to see all those characters come together.
But none of them will probably be interesting, if there are that many.

Dissidia: Fire Emblem anyone?

:O

Originally Posted by fratey

He's done more to Soren than anyone else in Fire Emblem, or, should I say, done Soren more than anyone else in Fire Emblem. teehee

That's because they are close friends and have been for a long time. Ike hugged him to cheer him up when he was CRYING, like I said. A girl had done the same for me once because I was crying, so I know this from actual experience.

EDIT: Rajin: Yeah, a lot of RD characters can sure duke it out! Boyd ftw. That guy was GOD STRONG.

Hmm, Lyn vs. Ike in a fighting game?

An FE fighting game would be awesome lol. I can just imagine how much fun I would have kicking Hector's ass with Ike and his awesome sword. x3

Hector never loses, my lady. Ike is a pussy in comparison.

Hector lost for me. That's why I hate him. Lost him easier than I have any other lord, in fact. What a wimp. I rarely lost Ike or even came close to losing him. He's my kind of guy. Plus he friggin destroyed a goddess.