SSB

Originally Posted by Khao

wavedash.....i say its a glitch (i know how to do it, so dont say that the ones who says it is a glitch are the ones who doesn't know to do it) i don't think is really programed that when you airdodge diagonally to the ground that weird thing happens, the game thinks you are still airdodging in the ground, why some characters have larger wavedash than others? is not that they are just better wavedashers, they slide more normally, look at luigi, he slides a lot after running, now look at bowser or ganondorf, they almost don't slide, now compare their wavedashes, go wavedash in the UFO in fourside or in the ice in icicle mountain, you simply can't say that is programmed

The character sliding into the ground was an intentional move made by developers in order to avoid your character from going through the platform, staying stuck, causing game crashes, etc. Therefore, it's not a glitch. In fact, it even appears in the debug menu of the game by the name of "super slide" or something like that. I recall reading somewhere that the developers themselves said it was a neccesary move in order to make the airdodge possible. All characters slide differently according to their traction, that's why Luigi slides the most, and Bowser has a poor wavedash.

Now that I explained the fact that it was sometimes intencionally programmed, there's no way in hell you can say it's a glitch. Read the concept again: A glitch is basicly an error in programming. Wavedashing is not an error, so this technique is merely using the game psyquics to your advantage. Only an idiot can say it's a glitch when exposed to all these facts.

Originally Posted by Khao

EDIT: from the wikipedia thing you showed:The practice of exploiting glitches in video games is known as "glitching." For example, in an online game someone may use an error in the map to get an advantage. This is sometimes considered cheating, but sometimes just considered part of the game. for me that sounds a lot to wavedashing

Considering that wavedashing is not a glitch, then the term "glitching" can't be applied to it. Sorry to burst your bubbles.

And for those who think wavedashing won't be in Brawl, behold the end-all argument: http://myweb.cableone.net/rebelart/WarioWavedash.gif

So yeah, live with it.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Those who claim that advanced techniques are glitches is because they can't do the techniques themselves.

Yeah, I hear this all the time, especially since I've pretty much tried and accomplished them all, I know that a lot of them are actual techniques, but at the same time a lot of them are f-ck ups in the physics system, like wavedashing. Don't you ever dare question my knowledge on this.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Wavedashing and all the other techniques in this game aren't glitches, they aren't exploiting an error in the programming. It's merely using the psyquics of the game to your advantage, and that's in fact what competitive players do.

Yeah, say that to the countless of other fighting games with similar glitches because of the f-ck up in the physics of the game. F.E. the infinite dragonpunch in Fist of the North Star.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

I'm sorry dude but if you're playing a competitive game get over the fact that competitive players will use everything, including game psyquics, to their advantage. Instead of coming to message boards to complain about non-existant glitches, why don't learn them instead? They're perfectly legitimate.

I know how to use them, but I'm not going to be an idiot and be in denial that they're not glitches. You could at least admit that you're exploiting it instead of constantly thinking it's not.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Tiers are something that will be present in every single fighting game out there, you can't make a perfect game.

Which is why there's no such thing as a perfect fighting game. Point is: SSBM is not a perfect game as you put it, ever, just like any other fighting game.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

However in SSBM the outcome of a battle greatly depends on the skill of the player, there's hardly anything you can call cheap or broken.

Yeah, same with every other fighting game, point?

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

In order to overlook them you have to realize that they aren't flaws in the first place. They're legitimate techniques that deliver from the use of the game's mechanics.

Too bad, wavedashing and a few other popular techniques are indeed an exploited f-ck up in the physics of the game that are very overrated. I don't have to know "advanced techniques" to win, anyway, the only thing you need to win is actual skill, not the constant use of wavedashing, SFFLing, L-cancelling, etc.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Yeah, I hear this all the time, especially since I've pretty much tried and accomplished them all, I know that a lot of them are actual techniques, but at the same time a lot of them are f-ck ups in the physics system, like wavedashing. Don't you ever dare question my knowledge on this.

I'm sorry but your lack of arguments only makes me think worse of your actual skill in SSBM. If you don't want me to question your knowledge, then do something else besides saying the work *****.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Yeah, say that to the countless of other fighting games with similar glitches because of the f-ck up in the physics of the game. F.E. the infinite dragonpunch in Fist of the North Star.

I don't give a damn if other fighting game has glitches, but this is not the case. Again, it's mere explotation of the game psyquics, there aren't programming errors anywhere. Besides, they wouldn't have kept shorthopping and Z-Cancel in the transition from N64 to Melee. Again, no argument here.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

I know how to use them, but I'm not going to be an idiot and be in denial that they're not glitches. You could at least admit that you're exploiting it instead of constantly thinking it's not.

Wavedashing is not a glitch, thereforth I'm only exploiting the psyquics in the game, making it completely legitimate. If you insist in telling me that it is a glitch, then at least tell me a good argument supporting that point.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Which is why there's no such thing as a perfect fighting game. Point is: SSBM is not a perfect game as you put it, ever, just like any other fighting game.

There's no perfect game, but SSBM is the closest fighting game to perfection.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Yeah, same with every other fighting game, point?

This game is inbalanced, but nothing game-breaking like some other games. Therefore it's a not a flaw, only a consequence of the developers not being perfect.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Too bad, wavedashing and a few other popular techniques are indeed an exploited f-ck up in the physics of the game that are very overrated. I don't have to know "advanced techniques" to win, anyway, the only thing you need to win is actual skill, not the constant use of wavedashing, SFFLing, L-cancelling, etc.

Anyone who knows how to use all the advanced techniques will make short work of you, even if he doesn't use them. Simple stuff: it gives you more options for mindgaming and moving. Anyone who doesn't realize it's usefulness is an idiot, sorry.

I don't have intentions to argue with someone that doesn't know how to debate, so I rest my case, unless you somehow decide to come back with good arguments.

I never really understood the wave dash technique. Is it a dodge? In the gif provided, I can't tell whether Metaknight hit Wario or not.

Originally Posted by Blizzaga

I never really understood the wave dash technique. Is it a dodge? In the gif provided, I can't tell whether Metaknight hit Wario or not.

Apparently he did. And it's that slide Wario makes right after landing, that's called waveland, which is wavedashing into the ground as you fall off. It was taken from one of the videos, and enough proof that the wavedash is in Brawl.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

I'm sorry but your lack of arguments only makes me think worse of your actual skill in SSBM. If you don't want me to question your knowledge, then do something else besides saying the work *****.

Oh, really? So that explains why you've been saying, "Lolz WAVEDASHING ISN'T A GLITCH NO MATTER WHAT GEIS." like it's complete fact? Please, don't spread that bullsh-t, even tourney fans know it's exploiting the ingame physics, meaning it's a glitch. Whether you use it or not, it is indeed a glitch that is similar to many other fighting game glitches such as the infinite Dragon Punch in my example. I honestly don't care if you use it, it's perfectly fine with me, but don't say it isn't a glitch, because it is whether you like it or not.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

I don't give a damn if other fighting game has glitches, but this is not the case.

It obviously is, you're just in denial.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Again, it's mere explotation of the game psyquics, there aren't programming errors anywhere.

Exactly, hence why it's a glitch, as it's exploiting a problem in the game's physics.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Besides, they wouldn't have kept shorthopping and Z-Cancel in the transition from N64 to Melee. Again, no argument here.

Yeah, but those are actual techniques, wavedashing and a few others are a mess up in the game's physics, that's a fact.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Wavedashing is not a glitch, thereforth I'm only exploiting the psyquics in the game, making it completely legitimate.

That's what a glitch is, dude.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

If you insist in telling me that it is a glitch, then at least tell me a good argument supporting that point.

Yeah, considering you've totally backed up your argument with actual evidence, right? Bullsh-t.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

There's no perfect game, but SSBM is the closest fighting game to perfection.

Not really, there's many other better and worthwhile fighting games out there than SSBM.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

This game is inbalanced, but nothing game-breaking like some other games. Therefore it's a not a flaw, only a consequence of the developers not being perfect.

Then don't say it's perfect in the first place.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Anyone who knows how to use all the advanced techniques will make short work of you, even if he doesn't use them.

Not really, all I see is complete failure from you, I don't think anyone has made short work of me yet.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

Simple stuff: it gives you more options for mindgaming and moving. Anyone who doesn't realize it's usefulness is an idiot, sorry.

Yeah, because it totally determines actual skill and timing, right? It totally determines how I fight against someone else, right? Don't bullsh-t me, skill isn't constantly using wavedashing or other "advanced techniques." Whether they're glitches or not, skill is something you actually gain from being able to actually fight in the game, not exploit something wrong with the phsyics of the game. Skill is actually being able to time your attacks, be able to perfectly dodge any other attack, etc. It's not exploiting the original game.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

I don't have intentions to argue with someone that doesn't know how to debate, so I rest my case, unless you somehow decide to come back with good arguments.

Don't be hypocritical, you haven't proved sh-t on your argument, or made actual logical sense at all. I've already proved to you that not all glitches f-ck up the game as you claimed them to be, but indeed can be just small things that don't affect the game at all. Like I said, it's a known fact that wavedashing is exploiting a small mistake in the physics, which basically means it's a glitch in the physics. Either you like it or not, that's a fact, denying it just makes you look like the regular tourney idiot who like to play Fox vs. Fox battles on Battlefield without items constantly.

Originally Posted by KratosAurion

I'm sorry but your lack of arguments only makes me think worse of your actual skill in SSBM.

Yes, this is true! Because we all know taking advantage of glitches in the games physics shows skill!

I don't give a damn if other fighting game has glitches, but this is not the case. Again, it's mere explotation of the game psyquics, there aren't programming errors anywhere. Besides, they wouldn't have kept shorthopping and Z-Cancel in the transition from N64 to Melee. Again, no argument here.

Yeah, because like, when you exploit the games physics which isn't natural it's basically an error then within the game itself. =/

Wavedashing is not a glitch, thereforth I'm only exploiting the psyquics in the game, making it completely legitimate. If you insist in telling me that it is a glitch

Stop denying the truth.

There's no perfect game, but SSBM is the closest fighting game to perfection.

There's plenty more games that are worth the title too.

This game is inbalanced, but nothing game-breaking like some other games. Therefore it's a not a flaw, only a consequence of the developers not being perfect.

But Sakurai is fixing this problem, so no more Smashf-gs constantly using Fox and wavedashing all "IF YOU DON'T PICK FOX YOU SUCK!!!"

Anyone who knows how to use all the advanced techniques will make short work of you, even if he doesn't use them. Simple stuff: it gives you more options for mindgaming and moving. Anyone who doesn't realize it's usefulness is an idiot, sorry.

Won't be the case when Brawl comes out, when wavedashing is gone since it wasn't meant to be there in the first place and the game is much more balanced.

I don't have intentions to argue with someone that doesn't know how to debate.

I don't have any intention to constantly argue with someone who can't accept truth. ;/

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Oh, really? So that explains why you've been saying, "Lolz WAVEDASHING ISN'T A GLITCH NO MATTER WHAT GEIS."like it's complete fact? Please, don't spread that bullsh-t, even tourney fans know it's exploiting the ingame physics, meaning it's a glitch. Whether you use it or not, it is indeed a glitch that is similar to many other fighting game glitches such as the infinite Dragon Punch in my example. I honestly don't care if you use it, it's perfectly fine with me, but don't say it isn't a glitch, because it is whether you like it or not.

Pretty nice how you describe your own attitude here. I carefully explained the concept of a glitch and why the wavedash isn't one, since it was something intencionally programmed into the game. Zeldafan1 completely destroyed your assumption of the technique bein a glitch, and you seem to know that sinec you've done nothing but ignore him. Where are your arguments? Please point them out, because I don't see any in this thread.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

It obviously is, you're just in denial.

Again, attacking me won't make you look smarter. If you have no arguments to defend your point, then drop it, no one's here to get annoyed by some childish whining.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Exactly, hence why it's a glitch, as it's exploiting a problem in the game's physics.

From Wikipedia:
In video games, a glitch is a term used by players to indicate a programming error which results in behavior not intended by the programmers.

Again, you're showing no arguments since you don't seem to know what a glitch is. Given the fact that the slide is an intencional consequence of airdodging into the ground, it's not a programming error and therefore not a glitch. Don't make me repeat this again. Are you sure you're not the one who's in denial of accepting something so logical and easy to comprehend?

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Yeah, but those are actual techniques, wavedashing and a few others are a mess up in the game's physics, that's a fact.

Explain, 'cause I don't see anything messed up about the wavedash. It's an airdodge put to use, and is perfectly legitimate just as using shuffle, pivot or any other advanced technique.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

That's what a glitch is, dude.

Look above. I'm not copying it all over again.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Not really, all I see is complete failure from you, I don't think anyone has made short work of me yet.

Pretty nice way of showing up your lack of arguments, considering you haven't even seen me playing and your stuborness regarding the undeniable usefulness of the advanced techniques.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Yeah, because it totally determines actual skill and timing, right? It totally determines how I fight against someone else, right? Don't bullsh-t me, skill isn't constantly using wavedashing or other "advanced techniques." Whether they're glitches or not, skill is something you actually gain from being able to actually fight in the game, not exploit something wrong with the phsyics of the game. Skill is actually being able to time your attacks, be able to perfectly dodge any other attack, etc. It's not exploiting the original game.

Thanks for providing the bit of information I needed to confirm that you've never used or fought with someone who uses advanced techniques. Anyone who has played this game on a competitive level knows that simply knowing the advanced techniques isn't the path to victory. Wavedashing, like all things, must be mastered in order to make it useful. Spamming it like an idiot only hinders your game, just like all other techniques. In the end, using any technique becomes second nature: the actual skill comes from knowing how to bea your enemy with mindgames by using those advanced techniques to your advantage. But you don't seem to know that do you? That's perfectly understandable considering your conception of wavedashing.

Originally Posted by Luke Groundwalker

Don't be hypocritical, you haven't proved sh-t on your argument, or made actual logical sense at all. I've already proved to you that not all glitches f-ck up the game as you claimed them to be, but indeed can be just small things that don't affect the game at all. Like I said, it's a known fact that wavedashing is exploiting a small mistake in the physics, which basically means it's a glitch in the physics. Either you like it or not, that's a fact, denying it just makes you look like the regular tourney idiot who like to play Fox vs. Fox battles on Battlefield without items constantly.

You really are accurate at describing yourself as said in the first quote. Your weak arguments, vague choice of words and use of personal attacks to impose a wrong point of view is proof that you lack arguments to support your position. Can you bother to explain what's the meaning of f-cked up in this context? Talk about not making logical sense.
Some anti-wavedashers actually make good points but you've thrown yourself right out of the window. I'm tired of your child's whining. If you want to keep ignoring all my arguments then that's your problem, you're only making a fool out of yourself.

Whatever...
I think it's pretty clear that wavedashing is a form of exploit, a little miss from the developers side. Unless they've been living under a rock for the past few years, it's probably going to be corrected in Brawl. Especially if they decide to implement an online mode.

And SSBM is much better than SSB. It did everything better.

Guys, last time I checked, the thread was about whether you liked the n64 version or the Melee verion of SSB. Not your opinion on wavedashing. Make a thread on it if you want to discuss it.

Anywho, I like Melee. The original was a great start to the series, the concept was awesome. Melee just had a lot more gameplay and features that made it better.

Originally Posted by Stuit

Whatever...
I think it's pretty clear that wavedashing is a form of exploit, a little miss from the developers side. Unless they've been living under a rock for the past few years, it's probably going to be corrected in Brawl. Especially if they decide to implement an online mode.

http://myweb.cableone.net/rebelart/WarioWavedash.gif

It seems the developers whole-heartedly disagree with you about the wavedash being a glitch, 'cause you can see Wario wavedashing in that gif. I'm glad they're keeping everything intact, I just can't imagine how shallow Brawl would be without advanced techniques.

I'm not impressed this topic has been brought up, considering the immense ignorance regarding advanced techniques and the huge ammount of people dissaproving of them only because they don't want to bother learning them. But we've gone off topic, all there is to say is that wavedashing is in Brawl and it's good to go. There's no need to get into worthless debates.