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Old 08-14-2007, 05:33 PM
Kee Kee is a male Kee is offline
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Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Quote:
“The fact is, I don’t think there is such a wall between both audiences (casual and core). While there are indeed games designed for core and casual markets, core users are also enjoying casual gaming. It is very hard to tune the difficulty just for the core market. Even for us, we would still have difficulty finding the right balance. But I think the future is games that are not difficult and yet very fun to play. There is no point in making a difficulty level the fun factor of a game. What I mean is that there is no point in making a difficulty level the fun factor of a game. We are making Super Mario Galaxy as a new and fun experience which aims at providing a very appealing, convincing and—before all—fun experience. If we managed to do so, then I’m sure even the core gamers will find it appealing. We need to release more games which feel like games. It is important that people who are playing them feel that the games are indeed fun to play… Now there is this concept I always focus on, which is you have to feel the fun of a game by only trying it, and that concerns Super Mario Galaxy, of course. Should it be fun by only playing it a short time, this indicates already it has a big value as a product… It is very important that the full fun of the game is being felt in the first stage 1-1.” - Shigeru Miyamoto
Source: Go Nintendo » Blog Archive » Miyamoto - games don’t have to be hard to be fun- What are you waiting for?

I don't even know where to start. First Aonuma, now Miyamoto? It's funny in a way because they try to make it sound like they are creating one difficulty to fit all gamers, but the truth it, not everyone is a casual gamer. I hate the title "hardcore gamer", it sounds lame, but it does serve a purpose. Not all gamers are the same, and that's the reason difficulty settings were created way back when. Why not allow the gamer to choose their difficulty instead of limiting them to only one mode that may not be their cup of tea.

Miyamoto-- I respect what he did for gaming back in the NES-N64 era, but now he is just a washed up and has completely sold out to the casual market. Wii Fit is proof if it. It also really annoys me hearing Miyamoto speaking for all gamers. No, Miyamoto, some people actually look for challenge in games. It may not be the only factor that makes a game fun, but it certainly makes them more intense and rewarding.

What are everyone elses' thoughts?
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:46 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Enough of the Aonuma hate, you, he's obviously being held back by guys like Miyamoto and at least he wants to change things about a few franchises.

That new report wasn't all that nice to hear. While on one hand, I agree with his stance that creativity should always come before difficulty, I don't agree with his apparent plan of attack. Sure, worry about inventive gameplay before you make it hard, but don't completely forget about challenge.

Well, at least he doesn't have complete control over every last Nintendo game.
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Old 08-14-2007, 05:52 PM
Kee Kee is a male Kee is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

It is possible that Aonuma was held back creative-wise by Miyamoto, but he does share the same philosophy as Miyamoto when it comes to games and difficulty. I actually respect Aonuma for finally doing something new to the Zelda franchise with Phantom Hourglass. It it were up to Miyamoto, it would probably end up being another OoT/ALttP clone.

Anyways, I can see this whole difficulty thing becoming a problem. They aren't just creating new franchises that are easy, they are also taking the "hardcore" franchises, and dumbing them down so anyone can play. At least that is the impression that Miyamoto is giving away.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Has Miyamoto sold out?

Umm, he's an employee of a global entertainment company. His job is to create games that *sell,* which in turn will generate *profits.*

If he were some street poet who had just been taken off the streets of Tokyo and hired to write catchy-jingles for washing-up liquids then maybe you'd have a point.

Quote:
but now he is just a washed up
His games still top the best-sellers list. You might not like Wii Sports of Nintendogs, but people are still pawning their dead Grandmother's jewlery to buy them.

Asking if Miyamoto has sold out is rather like asking if Coca-Cola have sold out.

Float your money money money.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:05 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

You're all noticing this now? Miyamoto (or more specifically, Nintendo has a whole) has had this stance on "hardcore" games for a while now. The Wii's library is proof of that.

Honestly, it doesn't come a surprise to me that Miyamoto (ESPECIALLY Miyamoto) would say something like this. Ever since around the time of the release of the Wii, there really hasn't been any difficult, or "hardcore" games. I have of course been pissed at Nintendo because they've been really lacking in the difficulty department for a while now. This quote from Miyamoto just proves further corroborates my point and my dissatisfaction towards Nintendo.

All of this is obviously in the name of money and sales on Nintendo's part. It bothers me that people actually buy more then half of the poor quality games that are on the Wii too. I'm actually very baffled by Nintendo's surprising success.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

What Nintendo needs to implement is a difficulty setting available at the beginning of the game, or even go as far as creating two similar, yet different games, each with it's own packaging.
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:11 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chozo View Post
What Nintendo needs to implement is a difficulty setting available at the beginning of the game, or even go as far as creating two similar, yet different games, each with it's own packaging.
Here's Miyamoto's excuse for that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyamoto
While there are indeed games designed for core and casual markets, core users are also enjoying casual gaming. It is very hard to tune the difficulty just for the core market. Even for us, we would still have difficulty finding the right balance.
What's funny is that everyone else seems to find the right "balance" just fine when creating difficulty levels. What a terrible excuse. . .
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:02 PM
Hungry Gamer United_States Hungry Gamer is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

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Originally Posted by Dark Link View Post
All of this is obviously in the name of money and sales on Nintendo's part. It bothers me that people actually buy more then half of the poor quality games that are on the Wii too. I'm actually very baffled by Nintendo's surprising success.
Maybe that means that Myamoto and Aonuma are right. I mean, I personally am a player, who love Nintendo for there originallity, and the stories and games that brought us to the franchize on the NES, and SNES. I love challenge just as much as the rest of you, but its not the core of Nintendo's success. Apparently, Nintendo's plan is actually WORKING. Think about it, if another Zelda came out right now, you would still by it, regardless of difficutly.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:12 PM
Kee Kee is a male Kee is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

But difficulty makes games more rewarding, more intense, more strategic, and more fun. There is absolutely no reason for Nintendo purposely dumbing down their games without even allowing a difficulty setting other than the fact that they are lazy and just don't care.

Nintendo does this all the time. They will purposely take the easy route, and everyone will know it is wrong, but Nintendo tells everyone it is the right way. Example: online multiplayer last generation.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:15 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

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Originally Posted by Hungry Gamer View Post
Apparently, Nintendo's plan is actually WORKING. Think about it, if another Zelda came out right now, you would still by it, regardless of difficutly.
You're stating this on a Zelda board? Of course people here will buy Zelda no matter what. Even I, myself. Unfortunately, games like Zelda, Metroid, or Mario (traditional) only release few good games out of these three series' once every couple of years. If that's all I have to look forward to when I purchase a Nintendo console from now on; I might as well just borrow someone else's. 'Cause apparently Nintendo doesn't care about "true" gamers anymore.

Adding to what Kee said; difficulty also makes games worth buying and give it a higher replay value. Otherwise it's just not very fulfilling or rewarding (as Kee stated). Most Wii games nowadays can be easily beat by me within the rental period. I'm sure most other "hardcore" gamers would say the same thing. Something is obviously wrong with that.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:30 PM
Coconut Water United States Coconut Water is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. You guys complain too much.

You all forget the Miyamoto himself was increasing the difficulty until the staff complained that he was making it too hard. I for one love the concept. Don't be a fool and think the game's difficulty won't increase as you progress. He's only stating what Nintendo has been doing since they first started making games.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:32 PM
Hungry Gamer United_States Hungry Gamer is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeSomething View Post
But difficulty makes games more rewarding, more intense, more stategic, and more fun. There is absolutely no reason for Nintendo purposely dumbing down their games.
Actually, use there is, deep in it all its a strategy. Their plan is to make games for a wider audience from toddlers to elders and casual to hardcore. With this larger number they will rack in more sales and possibly people who will become hardcore Nintendo fans. That is another reason why they used minimal resources, and made the Wii weaker than the other systems, they were not going to create hardcore games like the other systems, and they really didn't need to.

I have a much better question, if things continue, if games stay this was where you can beat it in a few days, would you quit playing Nintendo entirely? Would you quit right now?

I'd probably get an answer like "I still love Nintendo's francises."

Your complaining about difficulty, yet you still get there games, Nintendo rapped you around their finger. Even if you get another system, and put Nintendo backstage, guess what? You still have a Nintendo system, and you are still buying games!

Now, play an old game from the first system you had. Play one that you have played before, or even one that you never played before. Isn't it a little easy? Your older, smarter, and have better reflexes, games aren't getting just getting easier, your getting better!

Another example, play a challenging game of a franchize you never heard before. You can't beat a certain area, and you quit. You may determine the game before you even get to the good part. Thats why new franchizes have to be slightly easier, so that it has a chance to hook you.

Hardcore gamers are already hooked, and you will get a game just because it is Zelda or Mario. Casual Gamers have their games. Others have the opportunity to become one or the other. Just like cigerettes.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:34 PM
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

I see nothing wrong with a game that's easy at the beginning, but gets harder as you progress. In fact, that's how it always should be. That way, you attract all gamers. You guys are complaining about nothing. Miyamoto is only emphasizing what Nintendo has been doing since the start.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:41 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzaga View Post
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. You guys complain too much.
At least I know when and when not to suck up (in all due respect).

Quote:
You all forget the Miyamoto himself was increasing the difficulty until the staff complained that he was making it too hard. I for one love the concept.
Care to provide some sort of link to a quote? "Cause I've never heard of that. Ever.

Quote:
Don't be a fool and think the game's difficulty won't increase as you progress. He's only stating what Nintendo has been doing since they first started making games.
Judging by most, in not, all of the Wii's games. I'd say the games hardly get any difficult at all. Everything Miyamoto said in this discussion explicitly states that difficultly isn't needed in games. I also don't see the part in the quote where, as you say, he implied that all of what he has done recently was somehow what he's been doing since he first started. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyamoto
But I think the future is games that are not difficult and yet very fun to play.

EDIT: Hungry Gamer, Miyamoto straight out said that difficulty isn't needed in game. It's obvious he doesn't care much for it, so we obviously get less difficult, more crappier games in the process.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:53 PM
Fringant Épéiste Fringant Épéiste is a male United States Fringant Épéiste is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

... I got one thing to say here. If your that disappointed with Nintendo, that wrapped on having a "hardcore" gaming experience, that whiny, go to Ebay and sell your wiis for 300$ to 400$ and go buy yourself a 360 or some games for the 360. If you were truly that disappointed in them, then why not boycott them?

Seriously, your all being hypocrites. "Nintendos games aren't hard enough, I want them to change that. I'm gonna keep buying their games." Does that make much sense? Not to me.

Now unless you actually plan on boycotting Nintendo, STOP COMPLAINING!
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:01 PM
Kee Kee is a male Kee is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzaga View Post
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. You guys complain too much.
That comment really adds to the discussion. Mission failed.

Quote:
You all forget the Miyamoto himself was increasing the difficulty until the staff complained that he was making it too hard. I for one love the concept. Don't be a fool and think the game's difficulty won't increase as you progress.
Miyamoto's opinion on what is hard is equal to Twilight Princess. After all, didn't he say that game was challenging and only for veteran Zelda fans? Funny how it is considered the easiest Zelda games. Even if his comment about Galaxy was true, he is contradicting himself now so that statement is no longer relevant.

Quote:
He's only stating what Nintendo has been doing since they first started making games.
Not quite. Do you honestly think A Link to the Past is equally as challenging as The Wind Waker or Twilight Princess? Do you think Super Mario World is as easy as New Super Mario Bros.?

Nintendo games were harder back in the day because they focused on gamers, not grandmas. Now, I understand they want to expand their audience to make mroe money, as do all companies, but since they are gonig after another crowd too, difficulty settings are a must. There is no such thing as a difficulty setting that fits everyone, Nintendo just says that because they don't feel like putting the extra effort into there games. Alas, they release low-quality "games" like Wii Fit and Wii Sports. They are far easier to make and require less money (as far as I know) than a project like Zelda or Mario.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:01 PM
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

the reson is making it harder costs more money and they make enough money now so they don't have to make it harder. nothing's going to hapen unless there was a big strike or something, but it's not like that's gona hapen
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:02 PM
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

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Originally Posted by Dark Link View Post
Judging by most, in not, all of the Wii's games. I'd say the games hardly get any difficult at all. Everything Miyamoto said in this discussion explicitly states that difficultly isn't needed in games. I also don't see the part in the quote where, as you say, he implied that all of what he has done recently was somehow what he's been doing since he first started. In fact, I'd say it's quite the opposite:
I'm continuing that same argument, you are already hooked. Your not going to sell your system now. Whether the games are difficult or not, you are still going to buy it.

Okay, now, think of if you had a PS3... better yet I'll say 2 so you can relate better, anyway a PS2 or an XBox francize game. If you play it like a Nintendo franchize game, isn't it basically the same? And if the game has JUST the right amount of difficulty and you die more than 30 times. If you had the time, more than likely, you will still beat in in not much more amount of time as in normal difficulty. Hell, you may just stop playing for a while (I know by experince).

Now replay value, you beat a difficult game, are you going to start over as soon as you finish? Okay, I'll accept a yeas, because I remember that I do it, but the have another thing that increases replay value, unlockables and optional items, Beat at 100%, Different endings, adding new things to prolong a game.

Cigarettes....
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:06 PM
Kee Kee is a male Kee is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

Here is an excellent article that exposes Miyamoto for forgetting about the fans that got them so big in the first place.

Quote:
Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto attempts to defend the Wii's casual gaming approach to the video game industry in the latest issue of Famitsu. Unfortunately, he forgets how his company became so big.

Miyamoto's Famitsu interview is full of typical BS public relations crap. He spins everything good and bad to make the Wii seem like a work of genius. Then again, without PR, we get David Reeves type incidents.

Regardless, Miyamoto states that we need need games that are more fun and less difficult to play, such as the upcoming Super Mario Galaxy. Miyamoto forgets that it's exactly the opposite that made Nintendo so big.

It's games like Contra, Super Mario Bros., and Mega Man that helped the NES and SNES reach their ancient but ultimate status in the gaming world. These games were by no means easy. In fact, Contra III is the hardest game I've ever played, and I don't think I'll ever beat it.

Again, Contra III was innovative in that it introduced new ways of playing the side scrolling shooter not seen before, such as the overhead view in some levels. Yes, the Wii is innovative but by no means is it cutting edge, and Nintendo has forgotten that it's needs both in order to reach legendary status.

It is actually the PS3 and Xbox 360 that are the product of the SNES and NES. Those consoles continue the tradition of providing difficult but fun games. Those are the games we come back to night after night or week after week.

Nintendo has lost sight of its audience, leaving us to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Focusing on casual gaming may bring success but it will never produce any legendary titles, the likes of the Halo series, the Gran Turismo series, the Mega Man series, and all our favorites from past consoles.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:17 PM
Xeno Xeno is a male Xeno is offline
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Re: Has Miyamoto Completely Sold Out?

^ That's a great article Kee. Thanks for sharing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasslehoff View Post
... I got one thing to say here. If your that disappointed with Nintendo, that wrapped on having a "hardcore" gaming experience, that whiny, go to Ebay and sell your wiis for 300$ to 400$ and go buy yourself a 360 or some games for the 360. If you were truly that disappointed in them, then why not boycott them?

Seriously, your all being hypocrites. "Nintendos games aren't hard enough, I want them to change that. I'm gonna keep buying their games." Does that make much sense? Not to me.

Now unless you actually plan on boycotting Nintendo, STOP COMPLAINING!
I do have a 360. It's actually much more enjoyable than the Wii and has a much better library of games (anyone who owns a 360 would agree with me).

I'm not saying that every single one of their games is bad. I do however greatly disagree with Nintendo's (or more specifically, Miyamoto's) views and stance about the "future of gaming." As I've stated multiple times before: if were not for MP3, Brawl, and Galaxy, I'd sell my Wii in a second. In fact, if Nintendo disappoints me with any one of those games; I'd simply just sell my Wii immediately and plan on getting a PS3.

Everyone here has a right to complain by the way. Who are you to deny us that right? Nobody, that's who.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Gamer
I'm continuing that same argument, you are already hooked. Your not going to sell your system now. Whether the games are difficult or not, you are still going to buy it.
No no. I actually plan on selling my Wii immediately if any one of the games I've stated disappoint me.


Quote:
Okay, now, think of if you had a PS3... better yet I'll say 2 so you can relate better, anyway a PS2 or an XBox francize game. If you play it like a Nintendo franchize game, isn't it basically the same? And if the game has JUST the right amount of difficulty and you die more than 30 times. If you had the time, more than likely, you will still beat in in not much more amount of time as in normal difficulty. Hell, you may just stop playing for a while (I know by experince).
. . .What? I don't play Sony or Microsoft consoles as Nintendo games.

Please rephrase your paragraph; it makes very little sense to me.

Quote:
Now replay value, you beat a difficult game, are you going to start over as soon as you finish? Okay, I'll accept a yeas, because I remember that I do it, but the have another thing that increases replay value, unlockables and optional items, Beat at 100%, Different endings, adding new things to prolong a game.
That actually correlates to the difficultly. Unfortunately, most of Nintendo's games aren't like that. Plus, adding an extra two hours or so of "extras" doesn't really make up for the lack of difficultly. It's still just as easy the second time, except now you just do more easy things =/.

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Yeah. They're bad for you. . .(*hint* *hint*).
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