Super Mario Sunshine or Sonic Adventure 2: Battle?

About 6 months ago, one of good friends loaned me a copy of Sonic Adventure 2: Battle (for Gamecube), a game I hadn't played, and I let him borrow Super Mario Sunshine, which he'd never played before. After three or four months, we'd forgotten that we exchanged games, until we finally remembered. Ultimately, we decided to make the trade official, so I'm now the proud owner of Sonic Adventure 2: Battle.

When I think about it, I wonder if I made a good trade. Both games are platformers released early in the Gamecube's product life, although the Sonic game was a re-release from the Sega Dreamcast, if I recall correctly. In a sense, it's like I traded Mario for Sonic in that transaction.

In evaluating whether or not I made a good trade, I think my expectations definitely come into play. Looking back at it, I had much higher expectations for the new Mario game than the Sonic one. I had heard about the troubles of the 3-D Sonic games, so my expectations were somewhat low. The Mario franchise had previously made Mario 64, so obviously my expectations were high.

...Needless to say, based on my expectations, I enjoyed Sonic Adventure 2: Battle more than Super Mario Sunshine. It's tough to measure up to Mario 64, and I felt that Sunshine fell significantly short. I found the level design pretty basic, with a lack of varying environments. Also, the retro levels (without the FLUDD) annoyed me immensely. I did find the graphics to be a step-up, and I thought the FLUDD concept was kinda neat, but that's about it. And the Blue Coins? Screw you, Nintendo. I'm not that bored. Oh, and I'm not even going to mention the terrible lip-synching.

Of course, when you mention "terrible lip-synching," you often think of the Sonic franchise (or Ashlee Simpson). The lip-synching in SA2:B is about on par with Mario; in other words, terrible. The game also suffers from a mean-spirited camera system, whose only design is to make you die. Still, I found the gameplay to be top-notch, especially for the speedy Sonic and Shadow levels. It's very pleasing to run around a level aimlessly like that. In addition, the various type of gameplay (Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles levels) mixed it up nicely, although I found most of the Tails/Robotnik levels a bit too easy. The Knuckles/Rouge levels were frustrating at times, considering the HUGE maps, but pretty refreshing if you're in the mood to explore.

Overall, I think I made a good trade, although I wonder if my expectations biased the enjoyment factor. SMS was kind of a downer, while SA2:B was a pleasant surprise (no, that's not code). Looking back at it, I suppose the gameplay in Super Mario Sunshine wasn't that bad... But better than Sonic Adventure 2: Battle? Probably not. But, then again, I'm a bit biased by my expectations.

What do you think? If you could only own one of the two games, which game would you rather have in your library? Mario or Sonic?

Oops. Didn't make a poll correctly...

Hey, Post 666. Creeeeeepy.

Sa2 was the most irritating overrated platformer I've played in recent memory. My pic is for Mario.

Ultimately however, they're vastly different from one another. It's a matter of taste.

You mention lip-synching, but for both of those characters games the voice acting in cut scenes was never very important at all. I think both were good, but the higher choice would ultimatly go to linking your gameboy advance for the Chao Garden, if not then perhaps the pick should've gone to Mario.

I'd say SA2 because well that game was pretty damn good into comparison with Mario sunshine. Well I haven't played Mario Sunshine, but I probabl wouldn't like a game like that.

I mean Sa2 has a very good story mode.
Very innovative gameplay.
SHADOWS in it and he rocks!!!!!!
Oh and that addicting choa garden that gets me two

I've played both games, and I think Sonic Adventure 2 is better than Mario Sunshine. It comes down to a matter of opinion, of course, but here's why.

For many Nintendo players who never got Sega Dreamcast (including myself), Sonic Adventure 2 was the first 3D Sonic game we played. It offers a new experience over the 2D games (which were later delivered to GCN in the Sonic Mega Collection), and it offers a new experience in general with the speeding-through-levels delivery. Super Mario Sunshine, on the other hand, is essentially a rehash of Super Mario 64- run around a "central hub" and jump into "portals" to travel to other areas and find stars. For everyone who played SM64, the only things SMS offers as new are the improved graphics, a new support cast (Piantas and Nokis) and enemies (not a Goomba or Koopa in sight) and, of course, Fludd.

Graphically, SA2B has more variety in the locales. You've got cities, forests, canyons, a space station, among other things. SMS' focus on sunshine and tropical kinda kills it in this regard- there's water, sun, trees, grass, more water, hills, sand, lots of strange paint, and more sun all over the place. The only differences are the hotel, the plaza itself, the amusement park, Pianta Village (as weird as it looks), and the volcano. Everything else is just a combination of the previous list. SMS comes off as repetitive. Granted, I found it cool that you could see the hotel from the amusement park, and other such details, but this begs the question of why Nintendo decided to use the "central hub" format instead of making Delphino Island one large Zelda-like overworld. It would have been a good change that would have helped deter some comparison to SM64.

The gameplay is also the same story. SA2B offers more variety than SMS. Yes, hunting for emerald shards was not my cup of tea, and the shoot-em-up levels weren't exactly inspiring, but the speeding levels did have a little extra variety to them- Sonic's "skateboard" and the rail-grinding come to mind, though there could have been a bit more, to be honest. SMS offers the same stuff no matter what you do- Mario jumps, swims, sprays, hovers, jets around, blasts off, ground-pounds, and rides Yoshi for short amounts of time.

The music is really up to personal preference. I, personally, like SMS' music, but I like some of SA2B's music better. Again, though, SA2B's music has more variety while SMS' music focuses on the same sunshine/tropical theme throughout most of the game.

Ironically, both games have stories that are rather similar. In SA2B, Sonic is framed for something Shadow did, and in SMS, Mario is framed for something "Shadow Mario" did. As far as twists and turns go, both stories are pretty equal in terms of quality (of course, SA2B uses different viewpoints to tell the story, while SMS focuses on Mario), but I personally felt that Bowser's appearance in SMS was out of left-field, even with Bowser Jr. revealing himself eariler. One of those "why is he here?" things. And that silly thing at the end with Fludd "breaking" was just... silly.

Finally... regarding how much enjoyment you'll get of the game. Well, that depends on you, of course. Personally, it took me twelve hours to beat SA2B's story (all three parts), and it took me thirty-one hours to beat SMS. However, I then spent a year getting 100% completion on SA2B (getting all A ranks and emblems), while SMS has just sat there, that one shine (the final star in Ricco Harbor- the one that involves Yoshi), and several blue coins still waiting for me to garner up enough interest to do something about it. But I'm just not interested. My siblings play both games rather equally, but I myself have no interest in SMS anymore.

So, for me, personally, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle beats Super Mario Sunshine. There are other games better than Sonic Adventure 2, mind you, but of these two games alone, SA2 is better to me.

Super Mario Sunshine was better IMO. It had better gameplay and graphics than SA2. Alot of SA2's levels (The Knuckles/Rouge ones and some shooting ones) were boring and not fun at all, while the racing levels were excellent, best in the series IMO.

Super Mario Sunshine is a better game from graphical, presentation, audio, control and gameplay perspectives. However, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is quite a fun game that really does stand up to some other titles out there, even today. The Chao sidequest is a lot of fun and incredibly addictive, though it didn't hold my interest that long. Most of the medals in the game were a chore to get, however, and you didn't see any results in getting them - merely an incremented integer value in some menu screen somewhere. And, frankly, the camera and controls are incredibly awkward and, compared to newer games, are just laughable. I've spent a lot of time with it, and even though I did sell it off a year ago, and realise the game has numerous flaws, I still don't regret spending money on it.

However, I still have more fun with Super Mario Sunshine, which is an excellent game on all fronts and, though most certainly not as good as Super Mario 64, I thoroughly enjoyed it. There's more to do, more to see, and it's harder in the same frustrating sense that old Mario games are. What is there not to love about it? I think FLUDD, aside from being an annoying character, adds to the gameplay, and after playing Super Mario Sunshine, Mario 64 feels basic in comparison. The only flaw I could really point out in Sunshine are the occasionally awkward controls and the more linear game design - you reach different worlds at preset intervals and you can't really go back and forth between them like you could in Mario 64. You don't have the option to choose which Shines you pick up and which you never want to touch, and only in that regard does the game feel a step behind Super Mario 64.

Originally Posted by Ricky of Kokiri

Super Mario Sunshine, on the other hand, is essentially a rehash of Super Mario 64- run around a "central hub" and jump into "portals" to travel to other areas and find stars. For everyone who played SM64, the only things SMS offers as new are the improved graphics, a new support cast (Piantas and Nokis) and enemies (not a Goomba or Koopa in sight) and, of course, Fludd.

Agreed. It's funny though; although the castle in Mario 64 was merely a building, while Delfino Plaza is a whole village, I always found Mario 64's hub a lot larger and more fun to explore. When making such a comparison, however, one does tend to forget about how good/bad Delfino Plaza actually was. I didn't think it was a terrible hub, but still somewhat bland and basic. Yeah, there were buildings and stuff, but you couldn't really go into most of them, so they pretty much acted as immovable blocks in the way.

Graphically, SA2B has more variety in the locales. You've got cities, forests, canyons, a space station, among other things. SMS' focus on sunshine and tropical kinda kills it in this regard- there's water, sun, trees, grass, more water, hills, sand, lots of strange paint, and more sun all over the place. The only differences are the hotel, the plaza itself, the amusement park, Pianta Village (as weird as it looks), and the volcano. Everything else is just a combination of the previous list. SMS comes off as repetitive.

I think that, overall, Sonic Adventure 2 did have more variety. However, in terms of graphics, I'd say that Super Mario Sunshine is better. The environment is much sharper and bright, while some of the backgrounds for SA2 come off as bland and clunky. It's not so bad during the speedy Sonic/Shadow levels, but very noticeable in the others. Of course, the bland graphics may be due, in part, to the Dreamcast original production.

The gameplay is also the same story. SA2B offers more variety than SMS. Yes, hunting for emerald shards was not my cup of tea, and the shoot-em-up levels weren't exactly inspiring, but the speeding levels did have a little extra variety to them- Sonic's "skateboard" and the rail-grinding come to mind, though there could have been a bit more, to be honest. SMS offers the same stuff no matter what you do- Mario jumps, swims, sprays, hovers, jets around, blasts off, ground-pounds, and rides Yoshi for short amounts of time.

Now that I think about, the speed of the gameplay really separates the two games. Sonic games, in general, tend to be very fast-paced. That's the nature of the franchise. I found Super Mario Sunshine to be incredibly slow at moments. Sure, you can get some speed with one of the nozzles, but the use is very limited. I think some of my favorite levels were the ones where you could get some speed, like the Blooper Racing in the harbor.

In addition, spraying water got a bit tiresome after awhile, in my opinion. Playing the game sometimes felt about as much fun as washing the windows. You can imagine my horror when I got to the "Clean up Sirena Beach" Shine Sprite level.

Ironically, both games have stories that are rather similar. In SA2B, Sonic is framed for something Shadow did, and in SMS, Mario is framed for something "Shadow Mario" did. As far as twists and turns go, both stories are pretty equal in terms of quality (of course, SA2B uses different viewpoints to tell the story, while SMS focuses on Mario), but I personally felt that Bowser's appearance in SMS was out of left-field, even with Bowser Jr. revealing himself eariler. One of those "why is he here?" things. And that silly thing at the end with Fludd "breaking" was just... silly.

Yeah... SMS's storyline was pretty bad, especially for the last-minute addition of Bowser at the end. It really did seem to come out of nowhere. I didn't think SA2's story was that much better, especially due to its melodrama, but at least it made a little sense. Except for some of that Gerald Robotnik stuff at the end. I also liked the way the Hero/Dark storylines matched up; it's an interesting way to tell a story.

Originally Posted by SearanoX

Most of the medals in the game were a chore to get, however, and you didn't see any results in getting them - merely an incremented integer value in some menu screen somewhere. And, frankly, the camera and controls are incredibly awkward and, compared to newer games, are just laughable. I've spent a lot of time with it, and even though I did sell it off a year ago, and realise the game has numerous flaws, I still don't regret spending money on it.

Yeah. I heard on Gamefaqs that if you get all 150-something medals, you unlock an extra stage, Green Hill Zone, or something. I did end up completing all the missions and unlocked a couple groovy menu options... But then I found out you had to score an A-rank on every single mission to get the final medals.

...Screw that. I'd rather find all of the blue coins in Super Mario Sunshine, which is probably quite a chore.

Still, I think SA2 has more replay value than SMS, just for the sake of running through the levels again. There are certain scenarios that I particularly enjoyed in SMS, but they're very task-oriented, so even they get boring after awhile. In a sense, I enjoy SA2 more for its arcade-like simplicity. Get to the end of the level. Get to the end of the level. Get to the end of the level. The game is almost retro at its foundation.

Good point about the controls though. I died so much during the Sonic/Shadow levels (especially Sky Rail) due to the clunky camera system and controls. Sometimes those mid-air Sonic Dashes wouldn't quite work right, either.