[Nintendo] Super Smash Brothers: Developed by Namco Bandai

♥♥♥♥ both of you guys, Jiggleninja 4 life.

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Which characters do you think could afford to be cut? There probably doesn't need to be two Links, for example, and Lucas doesn't need to be there when you already have Ness.

- 1 Link (it was stupid in Melee, it was stupid in Brawl)
- Lucas or Ness (don't care which, honestly they could just make one the alternate costume for the other)
- Ganondorf (if they're going to still just have him be a Falcon clone, original moveset is the preferred route but existing form is dead weight)
- Falco (I love you, Lombardi, but you're just superfluous)
- Wolf (if they're just going to have him be a Fox clone, original moveset is the preferred route but existing form is dead weight)
- ROB (Who the ♥♥♥♥ cares?)
- Zero Suit Samus (may not count as an actual character but, seriously, I just hate her and everything she stands for)

Suggested replacements:

Mii
Porky Minch (trickster style moveset like Wario and Game & Watch)
Pig-style Ganon (not "Dark Beast", I mean the actual ♥♥♥♥ing blue guy with a cape and trident)
Black Bull (this is both to throw F-Zero some more publicity and somewhere to throw the Falcondorf moveset that makes some actual sense)
Fusion Suit Samus (as a replacement post-Final Smash form, with the same emphasis on trading power and range for speed)
Two Namco dudes, don't care much who. One of them is probably Pac-Man. I think Mitsurugi or Siegfried would be cool.

Originally Posted by TheGhostOfMandrag

- ROB (Who the ♥♥♥♥ cares?)

Me D:

Originally Posted by Zecora

Get rid of Falco and Wolf. Replace with Krystal and her staff. More unique.

How can you replace two people with one character?

Originally Posted by Zecora

Luigi's fine.

Agreed.

Lucas should go.

Change his powers

Snake feels out of place and I wouldn't miss him.

Agreed

Young Link should go.

Or Follow the whole Deku, Goron Zora thing.

Meh on Paper Mario.

No.

K Rool might be sweet.

Yes

Ditch Lucario and Pokémon Trainer.

Well, keep Lucario and change his attacks, slightly.

Pokémon trainer shouldn't be a character. The pokémon that he had should be characters on their own. I don't think Squirtle had good attacks. They should be changed.

Bring back Mewtwo.

YEAh

Give me Amigo from Samba de Amigo!

YEAH

Rosalina! Don't see it happening though.

Agreed.

No on Ghirahim. We have enough guys with swords.

I want him in that game.

No on Isaac.

Never played Golden Sun, so I don't know.

Ridley would be interesting. Doubt it though.

Agreed.

Get rid of Jigglysnack.

Maybe.

Dump R.O.B.

Yeah.

Replace R.O.B. with the Bubble Bobble guys! Maybe not. Can't see a moveset.

I have no idea what that is.

Revamp Sonic or toss him out.

Maybe.

Get rid of Falco and Wolf. Replace with Krystal and her staff. More unique.

Or change moveset.

ZS Samus can stay. She's a transformation anyways.

She should be her own character.

Bring back Dr. Mario as a costume!

Yup.

Big the Cat! (Just joking! )

Hahaha. Why would anybody want him?

NO!!!! To Sora. Oh my god, you guys...

Chill. I don't care.

Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks

How can you replace two people with one character?

As a StarFox representative.

Also, Snake was pretty awesome in Brawl. He should stay.

Uh...

He didn't outright say we're not getting a bigger roster, he said they just weren't going to focus on that, I bet the roster will be larger, just not by much.

Originally Posted by Bill

I do think Impa should replace Sheik.

Yes. I agree completely. As well, I think Impa would have more attacks.

Sheik is unique to one game--Ocarina of Time. Impa, I think, has a slightly more prominent role in the series as a whole, appearing in Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, and being referred to in Twilight Princess. In fact, it could be argued she is the most iconic Zelda figure after Link, Ganon/Ganondorf, and Zelda.

Possibly.



My lineup:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Baby Bowser*, Paper Mario*, Yoshi (8)

Bowser Jr. No Paper Mario.

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, K. Rool* (3)

Seems alright.

Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Young Link, Impa*, Ghirahim* (or maybe Vaati) (6)

Definitely. Young Link should have the Deku/Goron/Zora thing.

Ganondorf needs to use a sword.

Fox, Falco/Wolf, Krystal* (3)

Mhm.

Kirby, Meta Knight, Kind Dedede (3

Nothing much changes in the Kirby games... maybe Yarn Kirby could be a costume.

Isaac*, Marth, Ness (3)

Umm. Ike needs to stay.

Captain Olimar, Captain Falcon, Pit, Ice Climbers (3)

I don't think that Captain Olimar should stay with his current movesets.

Samus, Ridley* (2-3)

Possibly other bountyhunters from the series.

Snake, Sonic, Mega Man*, Namco/Bandai character*, Square character*, Ryu Hayabusa* (?), Rayman* (?) (4-7)

Snake needs to change movesets. Mega Man is needed. Jin should join. Sepheroth or Cloud. Rayman seems legit.

ROB, Mr. Game&Watch, Mii*(?), Little Mac* (?) (3)
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Popular recent Gen Pokemon*(4-5)

-Lucario, -Lucas, -Marth OR Ike, -ZSS, -Wolf or Falco, -Pkmn Trainer, -Sheik

Lucario Stays. Rob Goes. Zero Suit stays. Pokemon Trainer goes, but should be replaced by Fire, Water, and Grass type pokemon. Ike stays.

In general, I try to pick characters that are more timeless than "trendy." Ghirahim is an exception because I feel like he has a lot of promise from a game-play perspective (warping, dart projectiles, turning into iron, his sword, and the potential to summon Demise/Imprisoned for a final smash). However, Vaati could be substituted if you'd prefer a more established character.

That is exactly what I have thought.

I think Impa would be a great replacement for Sheik for the aforementioned reasons. Zelda could be revamped to make her a more viable character in the absence of Sheik. I think Paper Mario has become established enough to warrant an appearance; moreover, like Ghirahim, I think there is potential for a fun move-set. Baby Bowser (Bowser Jr.) has become a more prominent character after appearing multiple games in recent years and also could be a fun character. K. Rool would be awesome if Rare allowed Nintendo to use him.

I am not sold on Paper Mario.

I'm not a big fan of Star Fox in general, but I'd rather have Krystal than either Falco or Wolf because I think she'd present a better template for a unique move-set. Instead of blasters and shields, she'd have her staff.

I think that Falco should be more air based. It would make it better.

The Kirby series is well represented with three diverse and appealing characters. I think they can more or less port them from Brawl.

No need for more Kirby.

At the very least, Metroid needs Ridley. I would say Ridley is my number one priority for a newcomer. I was actually surprised he wasn't in Brawl. Dark Samus and Zero Suit Samus (as a distinct character) are other possibilities, although I couldn't despair if they weren't included.

I think that ZZS is great, but should be her own character. Dark Samus would be cool.

The introduction of Sonic and Snake in Brawl opened the door for third parties. I firmly believe it is important that Smash Bros remains a celebration of primarily Nintendo characters, so I don't want to see them go overboard here. The key, I think, is no more than one character to represent a third party company. From Sega, it's obviously going to be Sonic. From Konami, Snake. Mega Man is a no-brainer from Capcom. From Namco Bandai, I could see Pac-Man, a Tales character, or a SC character. Because Ubi Soft has supported Nintendo very strongly as of late, we might finally see a character from the west, most obviously Rayman. And, with Team Ninja involvement in Metroid, the return of Ninja Gaiden to Nintendo systems, and the fact that it originated on Nintendo, Ryu Hayabusa makes a lot of sense. Finally, a Square Enix character would be very welcome (Crono or Geno?)

Not sold on Pac-Man. I think Ryu would rock.

Pokemon is very hard for me to comment on since I haven't played since Gen II. There is no doubt that I am heavily biased toward Gen I and Gen II, but I acknowledge that they should add a Pokemon or two from Gens III - V to appeal to newer Pokemon gamers.

Absolutely.

Mr. G&W was the surprise/quirky character from Melee and ROB was the surprise/quirky character in Brawl. For the next Smash Bros, that coveted spot could be filled with Little Mac, a Mii, or maybe even an Animal Crossing character. Just something bizarre that you wouldn't expect.

I want both a Mii and an AC character.

I

try to be realistic and orderly when I construct my lineup. A quick tally reveals that my line-up calls for anywhere from 42 characters on the low end to as many as 49-50 on the high end. This doesn't seem too exorbitant when you consider that the original Smash had 12, Melee had 25 and Brawl had 36. Of course, to keep the character list from ballooning out of control, cuts have to be made. My emphasis was on getting rid of clones and spreading the wealth to more franchises. For example, I don't think Earthbound should have two characters, nor should Fire Emblem. Instead, one of the FE characters can be traded out for a Golden Sun character.

I think that SSBN should have at least 55 characters.

People are certainly welcome to critique, but I am quite proud of my lineup. I think it is very balanced and fairly represents the history and breadth of Nintendo gaming. I think it's fair to consider sales and popularity, but not exclusively. For example, Donkey Kong is a big seller, but there just aren't that many viable characters. Mario gets a lot of characters not only because of how well it has sold, but because it has produced tons of high profile, recognizable, iconic characters.

I like the way you think.

I just want Krystal and Ridley. And Mewtwo to return.

Originally Posted by Zecora

No on Isaac.

You broke my heart.

Four times in a row.

I'd say get rid of Marth and make the constantly changing FE slot one of the more popular characters, rather than the newest Lord. You could keep it as Ike, since he is a popular Lord, or maybe Hector, with an alternate skin of him with that big ol' ♥♥♥♥ing beard. SSB could use someone to slam an axe into someone's face.

For StarFox, I'd recommend either of 2 courses of action. You could replace Falco and Wolf with Krystal and her staff, giving an entirely unique character, or keep either Falco or Wolf and have Fox use the staff, thus doing something new and interesting with the original Fox character.

Wouldn't quite go with Ghirahim yet. If he appears in another game, sure, but every LoZ character in SSB has had at least 2 games before being added to the roster.

I want Ridley, but really only so that I could play my games commentating in the Ridley Voice. If he isn't, I'll just reskin another character to Ridley and get the same effect.

Originally Posted by Mission J. Frog

Wouldn't quite go with Ghirahim yet. If he appears in another game, sure, but every LoZ character in SSB has had at least 2 games before being added to the roster.

By the time Melee was released, both Ganondorf and Sheik had appeared in only one game, and even today there's only one game with Sheik.

Originally Posted by Mission J. Frog

Wouldn't quite go with Ghirahim yet. If he appears in another game, sure, but every LoZ character in SSB has had at least 2 games before being added to the roster.

OoT is the only game Sheik is in.

Ganondorf at least had the precedent of being a newly introduced version of the series-spanning villain, Ganon. Being technically the same guy, even, which is more than you could say for Link and Zelda.

And, while Sheik was only in one game, Sheik is really just Zelda, who has been in a lot.

Originally Posted by Khao

By the time Melee was released, both Ganondorf and Sheik had appeared in only one game, and even today there's only one game with Sheik.

Originally Posted by TheGhostOfMandrag

Ganondorf at least had the precedent of being a newly introduced version of the series-spanning villain, Ganon. Being technically the same guy, even, which is more than you could say for Link and Zelda.

And, while Sheik was only in one game, Sheik is really just Zelda, who has been in a lot.

Basically this^. While the specific character has only been in that one game, they can be argued because of Zelda and Ganon. Sheik provides a unique direction for the Zelda character, so they used that, and Ganondorf provides a means of fitting Ganon in with the rest of the fighters.

You can't argue that Impa should be in based on her number of appearances, since her moveset in the games is entirely different. Assuming she had similar moves to Sheik in OoT, then her moves in SS are completely different.

When it comes to Fire Emblem, I'm very indifferent about whom they choose since I haven't played any of the games. Surprisingly, Ike was one of my favorite characters from Brawl, just because of how powerful and cheap he was (at least at the amateur level my friends played at).

I don't understand the opposition to Isaac, though. He is another Fire Emblem type character, but more interesting because he can use Psynergy (the "magic" of the Golden Sun universe). So he's not just another character with a sword. He could use earth psynergy (drop a stone on enemies, hit them with a quake out of the ground, unleash a Djinn, summon Judgement for a final smash etc.)

I actually really like the idea of Ganon, the trident wielding blue pig of doom. I've already expressed my belief that Ghirahim is a perfect fit for Smash Bros, but if you're vehemently against him or Vaati, Ganon might appeal to you.

People have generally been lukewarm about Paper Mario. Let me try to make a case for him. First, I haven't even played the games (Mario RPG is not my thing), but as the fourth entry in the series approaches, you have to acknowledge it has become a legitimate series in its own right. And, as a 2D character, he translates seamlessly to the 2D universe of Smash Bros. Now, from what I can tell, there are plenty of possibilities for intriguing move-sets. If nothing else, it's fun for me to imagine him folding up as a paper airplane to glide back to the stage. But maybe people who are fans of the series can suggest some move-sets.

Now on Zero Suit Samus. I wasn't a fan of her as a character in Brawl (not so much the idea, but the execution) and I think the increasing role of the Zero Suit has been a stain on the Metroid series as of late. So I'm not too keen on her. However, if they do bring the Zero Suit back, I hope she's an independent character. I'd prefer to get away from the transformations, which is another reason why I'd take Impa over Sheik.

Fusion Suit Samus (as a replacement post-Final Smash form, with the same emphasis on trading power and range for speed)

I'd take that over the ZSS transformation for sure.

Honestly, I support the idea of getting rid of Wolf and Falco and adding Krystal with the staff. I see it as killing two birds with one stone--you're reducing clones, reducing the total roster, AND increasing diversity. But I'm just not a big Star Fox fan, so I'd be okay with bringing back Falco to appeal to those who are.

I liked the idea somebody (I think it was Mandrag) had about Black Shadow as a replacement for a "Falcondorf" type character. Very, very smart. Basically, you transplant the physics and move-set of Melee/Brawl Ganondorf on to Black Shadow and then give Ganondorf a unique move-set. True, he'd be a "clone" of Captain Falcon, but one that actually made sense. But with the way F-Zero has fallen into obscurity, I can't see it happening (a shame, GX was a great game).

I don't think that Captain Olimar should stay with his current movesets.

I thought they did an okay job with him. Captain Olimar, as a character, definitely deserves to be in the game. But I think he's very tricky to develop a move-set for. I agree he could use some refining.

Sepheroth or Cloud.

I'm not very knowledgeable on Final Fantasy or Square Enix in general, but my only reservation about those two is that they starred on Sony Consoles. I'd want Square Enix characters that were featured on Nintendo consoles, which is why I'd pick Crono or Geno (or maybe even the protagonist from Kingdom Hearts)

Lucario Stays. Rob Goes. Zero Suit stays. Pokemon Trainer goes, but should be replaced by Fire, Water, and Grass type pokemon. Ike stays.

I'd have no problem with losing R.O.B. Is he a popular character?

I think Ryu would rock.

I agree! The thought just crossed my mind for the first time last night. I think he'd surprise a lot of people. The Ninja Gaiden games on NES, despite being masochistic experiences, are really bad-ass! And as I said, Ninja Gaiden is finally returning to a Nintendo on the Wii U, so the timing is right for it.

You can't argue that Impa should be in based on her number of appearances, since her moveset in the games is entirely different. Assuming she had similar moves to Sheik in OoT, then her moves in SS are completely different.

I would use Sheik as a template for Impa since they're both Sheikah. I would use the SS model for Impa, but she could still have the darts, the whip, the same recover. Her down B, which has been freed up since she no longer transforms, could be defensive move--the one we saw her use to protect Zelda from Ghirahim in SS. Basically, I see it as bringing back the Sheik game-play, but with a character that is more significant to the series as whole and is not tied to a transformation. It also frees up Zelda to become her own viable character.

I already said I wanted Sheik and Zelda to be separate characters. I hate transformation characters. If you're going to keep Sheik's moveset minus the down b, you might as well keep the Sheik texture as an option for Impa.

Originally Posted by Cor Sicarius

Possibly other bountyhunters from the series.

Precisely. I think Gandrayda (from Metroid Prime 3) should be in the game. In the fight, she was able to transform into both Rundas and Ghor, the other two hunters. It would be good for a Pokemon Trainer-esque control scheme.

Snake needs to change movesets. Mega Man is needed. Jin should join. Sepheroth or Cloud. Rayman seems legit.

No. They're from Final Fantasy VII, which was on the PS1. In my eyes, the only possible FF characters making it into the roster would be the characters from Final Fantasy III and IV.

Lucario Stays. Rob Goes. Zero Suit stays. Pokemon Trainer goes, but should be replaced by Fire, Water, and Grass type pokemon. Ike stays.

Er... no. Lucario's long gone. They're going to replace Lucario with Zoroark most likely (since he appeared in the pre-Gen V release movie, just as Lucario did with Gen IV), and he may have moves similar to Wolf's. That would leave an opening for Star Fox characters - you can have Fox, Falco, and Krystal, and for those who liked to use Wolf can use Zoroark. They never keep the special Pokemon.

I think that Falco should be more air based. It would make it better.

Agreed. He's a bird for god's sake, MAKE HIM FLY! I've always had a soft spot for aerial combat in games, too. It just seems so fun to me.

I think that ZZS is great, but should be her own character. Dark Samus would be cool.

I say get rid of Zero Suit Samus and bring in Fusion Suit Samus. Zero Suit would be the worst character in the game. Dark Samus wouldn't be a clone either. For all that think she would be, go play Metroid Prime 2. Her moves are vastly different from Samus's. One of her attacks could be boost ball.

Zero Suit Samus is the hottest character. If they get rid of her, they need to put another hot chick in.

As a biased FE lover, I would want to see more characters from the series join. Not necessarily sword-users, though. A lance or magic user from the games would be very cool. A lance would be totally unique.

Didn't like Golden Sun, but honestly I would not complain about Isaac being in the next SSB. He'd be a very interesting and dynamic character, with all of the psychic powers he's got.

My opinion is: Vaati > Ghirahim, but I want one at least.

I too am lukewarm about Paper Mario, primarily because there are already so many Mario representatives already. I don't know anything about Geno, but an over saturation of Mario would crowd out other franchises.

ZSS: Indifferent. I don't care if she's a transformation or an independent character, but if I had to make a choice, I'd go the no-transformations route. Those tend to mess up characters a bit.

Make Falco more diverse, get rid of Wolf. Unless Nintendo puts out a new Starfox game soon, I don't see why they'd continue to keep 3 characters in. Either way, Krystal or not, three nearly identical fighters needs to change.

Ganon needs to use a sword or trident. This, we all agree on. His being a Falcon clone is no longer an option.

I could lose ROB and Olimar without any problem. They're not popular enough IMO to warrant them staying. I feel similarly about the Ice Climbers.

Adding Final Fantasy characters would be absolutely terrible. A thousand times no.

I've never played a Ninja Gaiden game, however, ninjas are awesome and as such I immediately support this character's addition.

Keep Sheik. Where in the world did people get the idea we need Impa?