|OT| Pokemon (General): What's this about Pokemon 2?

Originally Posted by Thegargoylevine

I am very disappointed that B&W2 will be DS games, not 3DS games. Angry, even. I don't believe in the "it won’t hurt you if you don’t buy it" mentality, because as a 3DS owner, this is something worth being upset over.

Step 1: Purchase Pokemon Black/White 2
Step 2: Put it in the conveniently backwards compatible 3DS
Step 3:

Here’s my reasoning:

1.) Pokemon is a HUGE system seller for Nintendo handhelds. Pokemon consistently sells 10 million+ games per generation, and is the second best selling video game franchise, right behind Mario.

Fair point. Pokemon is the top selling series on every Nintendo handheld except the DS (which goes to New Super Mario Bros). What you're saying is largely irrelevant.

2.) Many people are waiting for a legit Pokemon game to justify buying a 3DS.

3.) People see B&W2 releasing for the DS, now they’ll have no reason to buy a 3DS until Gen VI.


4.) Thus, the 3DS won’t be selling as well as it should be.

5.) Fewer systems sold = lower software sales.

6.) Lower software sales = less 3rd party support, fewer games for 3DS owners like me.

Maximum PC | Domestic Sales of Nintendo's 3DS Cross 5 Million Units in Record Time

3DS is selling fine, broski. It'll be fine.

Now that the 3DS is out and selling well, the DS needs to die and STAY dead. If Nintendo continues selling DS games, then non-3DS owners will remain content with their last-gen handheld and will not make the jump to the new console. Just look at how terribly the PS3 did in its first few years. Part of it was the price, yes, but another part of why it failed to sell was that developers were STILL making PS2 games YEARS after the PS3 launched – in fact, at the time there were more new games coming out for the PS2 than the PS3! They took away the main incentive to buy a new console – to get new games.


For heaven’s sake, the DS already has 7, SEVEN Pokemon games! It doesn’t need two more! If the little kids who can’t get a 3DS are the problem here, then let them just buy the other DS games; they probably don’t have all of the following: Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Heartgold, Soulsilver, Black, and White. Even if Gamefreaks didn’t mix up the Pokemon formula at all, at least 3DS Pokemon games would have boasted better graphics and animations, 3D environments and battle effects, spotpass and streetpass features, and a built-in pedometer like the Pokewalker. But nope, Gamefreaks decided its better to have 9 DS and 0 3DS Pokemon games than 7 and 2.

Releasing Pokemon B&W2 for the DS is an awful idea that’s a kick in the nuts to any Pokemon fan who HAS bought a 3DS expecting 3DS exclusive Pokemon games, and hammers in the idea that a 3DS is not worth buying to Pokemon fans who haven’t gotten the new console. “Appealing to a wider audience” by releasing on the DS means nothing if you’re losing possibly millions of dollars in system sales and even more in software sales that generally follows the purchase of a new handheld. Ideally, Nintendo would intervene to make sure these games never see the light of day, elsewise at least have separate versions available on both the DS and the 3DS, like with Twilight Princess. But unless that happens, I will boycott these games.

And then this wall of text is a whole lot of freaking out over hypothetical situations. You people are so alarmist.

Hey, isn't the full title of Pokemon Gold and Silver "Pocket Monsters 2: Gold and Silver" because it was a direct sequel to the first games? So maybe "Black and White 2" are meant to hit on that as another one of those "taking Pokemon back to its roots" gimmicks. Of coarse, if it is a reason, then it won't be the only reason...

If these new games don't feature new Pokémon and areas I'll be terribly disappointed, but I'll buy one of them nonetheless. Here's hoping to a completely new Pokémon experience!

Nintendo never released the Azure Flute in America, so we still can't catch Arceus. :/

Originally Posted by Joey Wheeler

Nintendo never released the Azure Flute in America, so we still can't catch Arceus. :/

A movie version of Arceus was distributed around when HGSS came out; I guess you'll just have to make do with that.

I have no idea why there's such outrage over Volume II. #FirstWorldProblems.

I actually like the idea of a direct sequel. I literally just said a few days ago what Pokémon needs to do is stop another slapdash game with 100+ [poorly] new designed monsters and simply extend one generation with a Part 2 sort of premise with the same monsters. So I'm pretty thrilled.

Gen II's GS are by the majority held as the finest entries in the series - even a poll on ZU states as such. So it's good to see the series take a leaf out of that book.


I still am unable to Game Sync properly, and after sending a vert detailed support message to the correct place on the PGL site, I got a reply stating "You must make sure you have internet access" so I then complained to the official nintendo site, which then replied "Sorry I don't know anything about Holland."

But research has shown there are tons of people with these issues. Lol designing a major element of the game that gives everyone hell. Shame on you and your poor customer services, Nintendo.



On another note; Does anyone have a Power Lens, Bracer and Anklet in Gen V I could borrow?

^ Agreed about direct sequel liking. I prefer this over "Grey"

and why are people so angry at it not being a 3DS exclusive?. It was 100% certain the follow up to B&W wouldn't be a 3DS exclusive yet. It wouldn't make sense.

The next, new generation will most likely be on the 3DS.

For it being a DS game, some mess will be had due to the action replay that any average player can tinker with. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Bravo

Gen 2 introduced genders, breeding, held items, the Sp Att/Sp Def split, 100 new pokémon, 2 new pokémon types, happiness, new attacks, new HMs allowing for new ways to explore, weather conditions, time of day, and more. None of which would have been possible if they had had to have proper battling compatibility with Gen 1. Just the introduction of any one of these, like breeding, would have completely changed the nature of the game forever. The introduction of all of them is the reason why Gen 2 is the most popular.

Gen 3 introduced abilities, berries, 130-ish new pokémon, new attacks, new HMs, double battles, forms, and more. Again: not possible if they had considered compatibility. The introduction of abilities ALONE changed the game drastically. Wobbuffet wasn't even really a contender until he got Shadow Tag.

Gen 4 made moves physical or special on an individual basis and not on the basis of type, introduced new abilities, 110-ish new pokémon, new attacks, Global Wifi battling and trading, etc. The physical/special redistribution entirely changed the gameplan for many pokémon. Beforehand, there were many pokémon who had great stats but their movepool didn't allow them to avail of them and STAB at the same time.

Gen 5 has introduced very little by way of new mechanics save for the Dream World and the unpopular rotation battles/triple battles, which is why it's been relatively disappointing.

Of all those, I concur that held items and abilities also added a lot to the dynamics of the game in the same way that the two new types did.

But the mechanics have always stayed true to their core. All these things you mention are indeed notable additions, but that's also all they are - additions. The mechanics of the game are still the same they've always been - catching, training, battling and trading Pokémon. Elements like breeding and abilities are only enhancements made to these mechanics, they never changed any of them.

I'll be the first to say that the mechanics of Pokémon have certainly gotten better, that's definitely true, but they're still the same mechanics.

Yes it will, but the kind of content that they usually introduce for sequels/third editions is usually only cosmetic and gimmicky and gets abandoned in the next gen.

Not that I neccessarily agree with the "gimmicky" part, but so what? Pokémon Yellow was entirely based around cosmetic and "gimmicky" updates from Red and Blue, and it turned out pretty well.

In the cases of most of those games (Emerald, FireRed, LeafGreen, HeartGold and SoulSilver), they included pokémon that had, since Gen 2 was utterly incompatible with Gen 3, been unobtainable or only obtainable through the GameCube games or store events. People were re-catching the Smeargles and Charizards that hadn't been available in Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond or Pearl.

Well, to be honest only Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh and Celebi were still unavailable by ordinary means when Emerald finally came along, and that's a number I can count on one hand. And HeartGold/SoulSilver only gave us two of those.

Mind you, I'm glad we got HeartGold and SoulSilver, but that's kinda my point; even if they didn't really have anything groundbreaking about them, even if they didn't really open up for a whole bunch of previously unobtainable Pokémon like FireRed and LeafGreen did, they were still welcomed and enjoyed. Above all, they were convenient and comfortable.

Maybe that's also something that can make for worthwhile Pokémon games.

Crystal, Emerald and Platinum succeeded because they were building on games which had already, and because they were individual games in which you got the legendaries from both other games (meaning that a lot of people held off getting the other ones in order to get these "definitive versions". B&W1 barely had enough new about them to warrant ONE extra version, let alone two. They also all pushed the envelope in terms of graphics (Crystal and Emerald were both the only versions of their Gens to have animated pokémon sprites, and Platinum went kinda 3D when you ventured into Giratina's world). One would assume that if Nintendo were going to try and push the graphics on B&W2, they'd, y'know, use the 3DS.

This part is just about entirely subjective, and I need to remind you once again that neither you or I know anything about this game except that there are two new formes for Kyurem based on Zekrom and Reshiram. We don't know what is going to change from Black and White, what's going to stay the same, which Pokémon will become available, what Pokémon will become available, and so on. Given the trend that we've seen with Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum, I think we'll get something much more worthwhile than just a new storyline and other trainers to fight, and the fact that they're making it a direct sequel - and another duo, at that - is enough to tell that this is already beyond traditional boundaries.

On the subject of graphical improvement, I think Black and White covered most of that by having sprites that would now constantly move, and a constant "3D" world that puts Giratina's world to shame. They honestly don't need to push it any further. That'd just be progress for progress' sake, and that alone does not warrant the jump to 3DS hardware which would cost a lot more and put a big wrench in that whole compatibility thing that's oh so important for games like these.

I really wish there was some way that you could take your team from Black or White and directly transfer it to Black 2 or White 2, and then after doing so you could have it start with a higher difficulty adjusted for you starting with your team form the first game.

I doubt they'll do that, but it'd be cool if they did that because then it could star the protagonists from B&W.

Black and White 2.

First off I am a little disappointed that the game is being made for the DS, and are not exclusively 3DS titles. I'm still waiting for a fully fledged out 3DS Pokemon experience, and I was hoping B&W2 would bring me that, but not quite.

Despite that though, I really hope we get a new region (or expand upon the region more), be able to transfer our parties over from B&W, some new Pokemon that will lead us into Gen6 (highly doubt that), or be able to travel back to an older region (!!!!!!!).

Black and White 2.

First off I am a little disappointed that the game is being made for the DS, and are not exclusively 3DS titles. I'm still waiting for a fully fledged out 3DS Pokemon experience, and I was hoping B&W2 would bring me that, but not quite.

Despite that though, I really hope we get a new region (or expand upon the region more), be able to transfer our parties over from B&W, some new Pokemon that will lead us into Gen6 (highly doubt that), or be able to travel back to an older region (!!!!!!!).

♥♥♥♥ YEAH CAUGHT KYUREM!

Originally Posted by Bravo

Fine. Enhancements to the mechanics, if that's a phrasing you prefer. But enhancements that aren't possible if you want backwards compatibility. And B&W2, presumably, do.

Nor do they need to. Again, this is nothing different from Yellow, Crystal, Emerald or Platinum, all games that needed to be compatible with their own generations and thus couldn't make any significant enhancements to the mechanics.

>>Implying that the freshness and popularity of the new cartoon had nothing to do with it, nor the fact that the franchise was new and many people hadn't gotten a copy yet

Not a chance. While the anime certainly helped create interest for Yellow, it had nothing - nothing - to do with Yellow's quality as a video game. Yet Yellow is fondly remembered and revered among the Pokémon games, on par with the Gen II games even. And yes, I know it's nostalgia, but nostalgia exists for a reason.

Actually it gave all 3 (Mew via WFC event - IIRC), but yeah.

The whole point was that we weren't counting event Pokémon. If we did, all Pokémon from Generation I and II had become available again by the time Emerald came along.

The cover pokémon are alternate forms of a legendary from the current gen, so it's a safe bet it'll still be Gen 5.

Yes, I think that's clear to all parts involved.

Assuming they remain compatible with B&W1, that means no new pokémon, no new attacks, no new abilities, no new items, no new battle mechanics. Oh, I mean no "enhanced" battle mechanics, my apologies. Not without making them incompatible.

Uhuh. Now refer back to my examples of Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, FireRed, LeafGreen, HeartGold and SoulSilver and how this was never a problem with those games.

What they CAN have:
Gimmicky minigames like poffin baking or pokémon musicals, but probably not actually either of those, since minigames are usually (I would say always, but I'm sure there's ONE exception I've forgotten) discarded when new games are made.
New story (I haven't cared about the story since Gen 2 or perhaps earlier)
Better graphics (but not much better since it's still the DS)
Maybe they'll get REALLY innovative and give the pokémon proper cries instead of those 8-bit sounds they've had since Gen 1. Ooooooooh, fancy. I've always wanted to hear Bulbasaur say "Bulba Saur". >_>

How about new locations? New challenges? New ways to obtain Pokémon? These are all things that have been done before, and that's just off the top of my head.

Why would it hamper compatibility?

I don't know the exact specifics, but that said I've never heard of a case where games from two different generations of hardware could communicate with one another. The 3DS at best is capable of emulating the DS, but it's never been shown that 3DS games are able to use these capabilities. Would a 3DS Pokémon game be able to communicate with a DS through WiFi? Would a DS game be able to communicate to a 3DS game in the same way?

Gen II was able to communicate with Gen I because they were from the same generation of hardware. They were both on the Game Boy. A rough equivalent of these sequels being made for the 3DS would be if Gen II had been made for the Game Boy Advance.

Suffice to say, communication between the games would be much more problematic, if not impossible.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

The whole point was that we weren't counting event Pokémon. If we did, all Pokémon from Generation I and II had become available again by the time Emerald came along.

Not counting event Pokemon? Then not only does that mean no Mew & Celebi, but also no Deoxys or Jirachi. If we add in everything up to the end of the fourth generation, there's also no Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin or Arceus either.

Sure you said only Generations 1 & 2, but since you seem to be counting from Emerald and not Crystal, Deoxys & Jirachi are still relevant.

I still am unable to Game Sync properly, and after sending a very detailed support message to the correct place on the PGL site, I got a reply stating "You must make sure you have internet access" so I then complained to the official nintendo site, which then replied "Sorry I don't know anything about Holland."

But research has shown there are tons of people with these issues. Lol designing a major element of the game that gives everyone hell. Shame on you and your poor customer services, Nintendo.



On another note; Does anyone have a Power Lens, Bracer and Anklet in Gen V I could borrow?

__


Sorry for the repetition, I just figured it was lost with the BW2 discussion. <:3

Alas no, though with the ease that roaming monsters can be found, I can hopefully catch one for you.

Alternatively, I have both Reshiram and Zekrom. And a Mewtwo (though could you please not train them? ) that you're welcome to borrow.

Originally Posted by Bravo

The crux of the issue is that in the cases of Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum, they didn't try to sell us TWO new games with the same pokémon as what was in the main pair, and in the cases of FR, LG, HG and SS, they had nostalgia and previously difficult-to-get pokémon on their side.

Unless B2 and W2 are actually remakes of Ruby and Sapphire in disguise, they'll be hard-pressed to find a reason why I'd care. And even then, I still probably wouldn't.

Odds are good that the point of these new games is for the extra plot, not the Pokemon. This has tended to be the case with each of the games Yellow, Crystal, Emerald & Platinum anyway, although I suspect this is meant to be to greater degree than any of these previous games.

That said, I have no intention to buy these either.

Well, I have a Power Anklet.
I don't need anything in return, but I will be needing it back.
=)

Originally Posted by Bravo

I only need the Thundurus to add it to my pokédex and to access Landorus.

But Zekrom would do as well, I suppose.

I'll let you know tonight if I have those items.

Cools. Let me know.

Originally Posted by EmptyStar

Well, I have a Power Anklet.
I don't need anything in return, but I will be needing it back.
=)

Sounds great!
Thanks so much!
I only need them to help EV train, then I'll give it back.

I'll PM you guys my Friend code later.