Square-Enix's Jump Festa Lineup Revealed - Get Your B-Titles Here!

Originally Posted by Andross

Compilation.

And I don't get why you dislike FFVII, Snow_Storm. Its gameplay, character growth system, atmosphere, and plot matched the level of quality of the previous titles in the series (With the quality of the game's atmosphere and plot exceeding those of the previous games in the series).

Because I lost all my gil and even my house at the Chocobo Races and somebody murdered my Golden Chocobo...

In all seriousness, I actually play FF7 and I still hated the game. Yeah, I give it some points for being an amazing RPG, for it day that is. It has not age that well, it was as bland and average as say FF2 or FF5 and there was no appealing or redeeming factor from the game.

Doom sounds like ASS, but is taken with a pinch of salt. Party leader dying = game over sounds like "we didn't make your party's AI good enough to help you out, so we'll just give you a game over lol sry". Finally, narrow path equals sadface, but so long as it's not worse than X. Also, narrow paths > massive empty spaces, so that's a plus.

Still, all of that information (Tiger) is negative, the good will undoubtedly even it out.

Notice the red glow from the bottom? The red emitting light is apparently a part of the shoe style.

If you're in the mood, you could probably speculate on how the red glow will fit into the game, either as part of the story (example: the government tracks people by a unique color emitted by their shoes) or as part of the gameplay (example: your shoes emit a unique color depending on the level of your combo attacks).

Or SE just discovered the awesomeness that was LA Lights and decided to incorporate them into the game.

Originally Posted by Young Old Man

Or SE just discovered the awesomeness that was LA Lights and decided to incorporate them into the game.

You call that awesome?
Those look weird as **** to me.

Originally Posted by LinksShadow66

You call that awesome?
Those look weird as **** to me.

Screw you kid, those shows were kick ass awesome. Everyone were rockin' them back in the day.

Also, learn to detect bull****.

Also the game does have more exploration than FFX...actually, all FF dungeons ever since 7 have been straight corridors pretty much.

The FF dungeons prior weren't much better.

In all seriousness, I actually play FF7 and I still hated the game. Yeah, I give it some points for being an amazing RPG, for it day that is. It has not age that well, it was as bland and average as say FF2 or FF5 and there was no appealing or redeeming factor from the game.

I will not disagree with the fact that the game has not aged well (Although there is a certain charm to the game's ancient, blocky graphics), but I certainly found that the game was far more unique and had far more of an identity than most of the FF titles that came before it (Mainly due to its excellent, unique-in-games-for-its-time atmosphere, and its well developed characters/story progression/vastly improved gameplay elements). As for appealing/redeeming factors, I always found that the scenery, music, character progression (It's one of the few games in the series to actually make me care about most of the major characters), dialogue, and all of the little content spread throughout the game made it worth playing through again to experience.

To each his own, I guess. Some probably get more out of it than others.

Originally Posted by LinksShadow66

FF13 versus will be better than FF13.

We still don't know enough about Versus to judge it; I'm still worried that the game could just be all style and no substance.

With that said, I respectfully disagree. FFXIII looks amazing; as for FF Versus XIII, it could possibly be a trainwreck I dunno.

Originally Posted by Snow_Storm

Screw you kid, those shows were kick ass awesome. Everyone were rockin' them back in the day.

Also, learn to detect bull****.

I'm glad someone knows what I'm talking about.

Regarding this conversation:

Final Fantasy XIII: Optimizing My Paradigm
Full coverage on console, PC, MMO and tabletop RPGs.
by Jeremy Parish | Dec 19, 2009 9:45PM PST

Tags: PS3 Final Fantasy XIII (PS3) Final Fantasy XIII (XBOX 360) Final Fantasy XII (PS2) Final Fantasy X (PS2) Final Fantasy X-2 (PS2)
It's funny, but the part of the Final Fantasy XIII demo that had me most worried about is the part of the game I ultimately find I like best: The combat system. I couldn't help it -- it was so limited! -- even though I knew at the time I shouldn't have been too concerned. A weird quirk of the Final Fantasy series is that its intricate battle mechanics make the opening hours of the games -- the sections before you're given access to all your abilities and techniques -- terribly dull. Final Fantasy V is a slog until you get the first crystal and unlock jobs; FFVI does at least give every character a unique command right out of the gate, but it's still pretty repetitive until you meet up with the Espers; FFVIII is incredibly simplistic until you can junction; FFXII drags until you can build gambits.

Little surprise, then, that FFXIII is exactly the same way -- and the demo was based on the opening minutes of the game, well before you're granted access to the real battle system. But once you lean to use Paradigm Shifts (Optima Changes in the Japanese version), the real game begins... well, in battle, anyway.



Believe it or not, FFXIII's battle mechanics really are an evolution of all the battle systems from the series' PlayStation 2 chapters. Supposedly the team's real ambition was to create battles that felt as dramatic as the brawls in Advent Children, but fortunately they drew upon the series' heritage (i.e., videogames) to achieve that cinematic aim. Like I said in my preview, there's a lot of FFX-2 here: The pacing, the overlapping actions, the need for teamwork, the ability to change classes immediately in the thick of battle. But FFXIII also incorporates the need for strategy that I loved in FFX and a tactical element of indirect party control similar to FFXII.

It's interesting to see reactions to FFXIII by people who haven't yet played the game, because the response to things like our hands-on preview and impressions posted on various Internet forums is overwhelmingly negative. Yet the actual experience of FFXIII is pretty damn positive, even if the structure of the game is maddeningly linear. I'm really not too happy about the world design, which is basically one long corridor, but I'll be damned if the fights that take place in that tube of a universe aren't some of the best I've ever seen in any game with "Final Fantasy" in the title.

FFXIII does not reward complacency. It does not allow you to spam fight-fight-heal. Sure, the early battles don't require much thought, but once the game makes Paradigm Shifts available, all bets are off. You'll quickly begin meeting foes who can only be taken down with well-considered strategies, and not just the bosses; you'll have to adjust your tactics on the fly to account for the special defenses and abilities of plenty of cannon fodder mooks, too. Relying on the safe trio of Attacker/Blaster/Healer will only get you so far; sure, you probably won't have to worry about dying if someone in your party is set to work as a permanent healer, but some foes just can't be beaten unless you pour on the offense or the debuffs. And since the level of your efficiency in battle determines how quickly your valuable Tech Points are refilled, it's a pretty dumb idea to chip away at a high-defense foe for one percent of its max HP per round.

The first major boss you battle after gaining access to Paradigm Shifts initially seems like a pushover, despite spamming powerful group attacks: I wiped the floor with it in practically no time. But then the second phase of the battle begins, and the boss trades its high-pressure offensive skills for a more balanced defense. The only way to beat it with anything like efficiency is to force it into a Break state in which your party's damage output is multiplied several times. Of course, you always want to break enemies whenever possible, but it's trickier here; in the boss's initial state, its frequent attacks stun the party, giving its break gauge time to reset to zero. Once it enters the second phase of battle, though, it attacks less violently and less frequently, so it's possible to push it steadily toward the breaking point.


For the first sequence, it's essential to keep a Healer in the party to help recover from those constant attacks. Once you enter phase two, however, the boss's only major attack is a gravity bomb that hits the entire party for about half their hit points -- it's powerful, but it requires several rounds of recharge time before the boss can use it again. An ideal strategy here is to keep the party set to three Blasters -- offensive mages whose attacks have a high impact on the break gauge -- to build the boss's break gauge as high as possible while it's in its defensive phase. When it launches the gravity bomb, it's smart to switch to a Blaster/Blaster/Healer arrangement to allow your team to keep up the pressure while recovering from the big attack. And once the boss enters a Break state, it's wise to have main character Lightning switch her role to Attacker in order to make the most of its weakened defenses, while support character Sahz continues to attack as a Blaster and Vanille alternates between healing and blasting as needed.

Paradigm Shifts are basically a way to switch tactics between the various modes of action seen in every Final Fantasy. But there are a few unique wrinkles in FFXIII that allow the game to raise the stakes in a way that's decidedly rare in this series. For starters, there's no such thing as a Magic Point. Instead, every action a character takes requires a point of the Active Time Battle meter; a spell like Thunder costs one point, the same as a physical strike, while crowd-control techniques may cost two or three points. This equalizes the cost of magic and spells; there's no worry about recharging MP, and there's not even a need to worry about healing after the battle, since HP is recharged once the fight ends. And so, fights can be tricky. Effect spells that used to be cost too many MP to have any real value in Final Fantasy's throwaway battles -- be it Slow or Poison or whatever -- are no longer too expensive. Battles have therefore been balanced almost more like those from a Shin Megami Tensei game, where every fight could be the end for an unwary player unless they employ the proper tactics. Despite the more action-oriented feel of battle, it's not superficial. It's not mindless. It's not shallow. On the contrary, it's meaty and involving.

As someone who lives for good, challenging RPGs, this discovery pleases me.

I know a lot of people are freaking out about the fact that your support characters are AI-controlled, and that's actually kind of funny. This may be something new to Final Fantasy (disregarding the entire existence of FFXII, of course), but it's hardly a new idea for the genre. Ever played a BioWare game? How about Persona 3? Dragon Quest IV? Seriously, you guys gotta stop panicking about trivial things.

There's still more to battle that I haven't touched on, believe it or not. Tech abilities, for instance: They draw on a separate, unique meter (the TP meter, don't you know) and consist of highly specialized abilities -- mainly summoning Eidolons, but also casting certain Paradigm-independent spells like Libra. The higher your combat rating for each battle, the faster your TP meter recharges. There's also the Crystarium, which is basically FFX's Sphere Grid, except prettier.

But then, everything in FFXIII is prettier. Looks alone don't count for much... but fortunately, I'm finding the game does have a lot of substance where it really counts. Now that I've unlocked all the classes, I'm hoping combat becomes even trickier. This quest may or may not end up being a straight line to the very end, but at least the points along the way are becoming interesting.

Another case of "I go on message boards and complain about games I haven't even played yet."

The game is awesome and genre defining, and the linearity ends half way through the game, a part that the complainers haven't reached yet.

And 2ch hates everything. They hated the supposedly awesome Dragon Quest IX too.

The game is awesome and genre defining, and the linearity ends half way through the game, a part that the complainers haven't reached yet.

Heck, most FF games are incredibly linear until the end of the game where a ****load of side content pops up, so this is probably a step up.

In addition, no one complains about platformers or shooters that are structured in "levels" being linear, even though they are.

While some RPGs do the whole "open world" thing well, "doing whatever the **** you want" isn't what defines the RPG. What defines the RPG is the story-telling, characters and the main campaign; this harkens back to pen and paper RPGs where players would spend loads of time filling their character sheets with character personality and lore while the DM would strive to come up with an interesting, imaginative adventure for the players to experience.

That's why I see story-telling as a very important aspect when it comes to RPGs, because the genre arose and evolved differently compared to other genres. Action-Adventures and shooters with weak plots can be excused because they don't trace their roots back to a situation where story-telling is important for overall enjoyability.

Also, FFXIII marks the return of the sphere grid? **** yes.

Originally Posted by Andross

While some RPGs do the whole "open world" thing well, "doing whatever the **** you want" isn't what defines the RPG. What defines the RPG is the story-telling, characters and the main campaign; this harkens back to pen and paper RPGs where players would spend loads of time filling their character sheets with character personality and lore while the DM would strive to come up with an interesting, imaginative adventure for the players to experience.

Yeah, but the actual appeal of P&P is the non-linearity. Unless your DM is a dick, then that's called railroading and is universally frowned upon.

The problem with linearity in a story-based genre is that it's hard to justify existence as a video game if a game's story is overly linear. Remember, video games are marked by their interactivity, so if a story-central game doesn't have an interactive story, then there's not much point to it being a game at all.

Originally Posted by Prof. Fish

Yeah, but the actual appeal of P&P is the non-linearity. Unless your DM is a dick, then that's called railroading and is universally frowned upon.

Most of the time the DM plans out a story ahead of time and allows the players to make certain decisions here and there; however, the "main template" remains the same. At least, that's what I know from my experiences, and from what I know from people I know who actively RP far more than me.

The problem with linearity in a story-based genre is that it's hard to justify existence as a video game if a game's story is overly linear. Remember, video games are marked by their interactivity, so if a story-central game doesn't have an interactive story, then there's not much point to it being a game at all.

The games still require you to battle powerful enemies in order to progress, allow you to complete side quests, max out your characters, and strive to obtain the ultimate weapons/gear. It's not like these games just hand the story to you on a silver platter; you have to put some effort in to unlocking the segments of the story and progressing through it, and in that sense, the story in these games is interactive. Adding a large variety of choice isn't the only way to make something interactive.

That's another thing; even though some people will argue that Final Fantasy titles are too linear and don't allow much choice in terms of what to do, WRPGs aren't too innocent, either. BioWare, one of the leading sources for quality WRPGs, attempts to give you in-depth dialogue trees; however, even in their recent games such as Dragon Age: Origins (Which is absolutely fantastic and is the best RPG, and probably best game of the year), it doesn't matter, much, as aside from a few major points here and there, the individual choices you make don't impact the game much at all. It usually just follows the same "main template;" it just tries harder to hide this fact than an FF title does. And then you have Bethesda, which allows you to do whatever the **** you want, but the story-telling and character development in their RPGs is generally terrible. With this in mind, neither side is innocent.

Hahahaha. GAF is like a roller coaster of impressions right now. Started off, of course, with the OMG SO AMAZING, and then like three different posters started complaining about how linear it was, etc. etc., along with many posters complaining who haven't even touched the game, and now the positive is back on as people are actually starting to get farther in. Some good impressions on the Crystarium System:

Originally Posted by duckroll

The Crystarium is as linear as the Sphere Grid was. Anyone who says otherwise, is deceiving themselves as to how much "freedom" the Sphere Grid offered. If you're going down a continuous route on the Sphere Grid, especially the original one, not the International Grid, it's basically a continuous route with maybe one or two diverting routes here and there. It took even more effort to "level up" in FFX, since you have to move along the Grid -and- actually use Ability, Magic, Power, Speed Spheres to gain benefits. Lots of more contrived selection, and much more time consuming.

I think it's totally acceptable if someone says that they felt the Sphere Grid was a sack of ****, and a total waste of time, and it is disappointing that FFXIII employs something similar at all. But to say that the Sphere Grid was something good AND to say that Crystarium is balls because it is time consuming and linear, is total nonsense. The Crystarium has the same little illusionary "choices" as the Sphere Grid had.

Sometimes you have the option of investing points to continue on the straight route which would lead to the center (which you eventually need to go up to the next level), or you can divert for a few spaces into a branch. On the Sphere Grid, this would penalize you if you branch off, because you will then have to waste Sphere Levels to move backwards before going back on track. Here they just remove that constrain and allow you to move in any direction from any power point you have already reached.

Like I said before, I'm not defending the Crystarium System as some awesome innovation or an amazing system which gives me great satisfaction and freedom to development my characters. But like all previous FF character growth systems, it's just another different way of doing the same thing. I'm sure some people actually feel it is more troublesome while not offering the same amount of whatever it is a previous FF game offered, but if you take a step back and look at it for what it is, it's pretty much on par with what they've always aimed for in FF games.

Honestly, people need to take most of these impressions with a grain of salt, especially from posters they don't really know. And then you have trusted sources like Jeremy Parish and Duckroll who are saying it's pretty much awesome and that the quests are crazy later on, so stop freaking out.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wonderful

Honestly, people need to take most of these impressions with a grain of salt, especially from posters they don't really know. And then you have trusted sources like Jeremy Parish and Duckroll who are saying it's pretty much awesome and that the quests are crazy later on, so stop freaking out.

Sounds good! The only problem I have really is the Doom thing, it sounds less like something that's hard and more like something that's lame and frustrating. Haven't been watching any videos or anything though, so I'm still super excited about how the game is going to turn out.

EDIT: Someone needs to post if the old fanfare is in there somewhere, even if it's on an arcade machine or something.

So we've got negative opinions and we've got positive ones.

Yet the negatives ones are all from people who "have yet to play the game".


Interesting thought process there, ZU.

Originally Posted by Andross

Most of the time the DM plans out a story ahead of time and allows the players to make certain decisions here and there; however, the "main template" remains the same. At least, that's what I know from my experiences, and from what I know from people I know who actively RP far more than me.

Well of course, there has to be SOME linearity for the DM, but the DM's skilled is measured in given a certain scenario, how dynamic and adaptable the game's plot is. Some linearity is an inevitability, but non-linearity is the valued goal.

The games still require you to battle powerful enemies in order to progress, allow you to complete side quests, max out your characters, and strive to obtain the ultimate weapons/gear. It's not like these games just hand the story to you on a silver platter; you have to put some effort in to unlocking the segments of the story and progressing through it, and in that sense, the story in these games is interactive. Adding a large variety of choice isn't the only way to make something interactive.

Sure, but the problem with forcing a non-linear gameplay system on a linear plot is that the gameplay becomes disconnected from the plot. Sure, fighting bosses is rather connected to the plot, but do you thing all that grinding outside the crater while the meteor looms overhead REALLY happened in FFVII? You can make interactive gameplay, but if the story is linear, the game is basically the equivalent of completing mini-games to unlock cutscenes.

That's another thing; even though some people will argue that Final Fantasy titles are too linear and don't allow much choice in terms of what to do, WRPGs aren't too innocent, either. BioWare, one of the leading sources for quality WRPGs, attempts to give you in-depth dialogue trees; however, even in their recent games such as Dragon Age: Origins (Which is absolutely fantastic and is the best RPG, and probably best game of the year), it doesn't matter, much, as aside from a few major points here and there, the individual choices you make don't impact the game much at all. It usually just follows the same "main template;" it just tries harder to hide this fact than an FF title does. And then you have Bethesda, which allows you to do whatever the **** you want, but the story-telling and character development in their RPGs is generally terrible. With this in mind, neither side is innocent.

Well, first of all, I think giving the player the illusion of choice is better than giving them no choice at all, because it keeps them immersed and engaged with the plot, at least for the first playthrough.

And while you're right about the dialogue trees, those are rather localized complaints. You and I both know there are scenarios in Bioware games where a decision drastically changes the course of gameplay for a given chapter.

But it's only linear for 20 hours!!

For me this is a disappointment considering that this was one of the things I hated about ffX.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

So we've got negative opinions and we've got positive ones.

Yet the negatives ones are all from people who "have yet to play the game".


Interesting thought process there, ZU.

I'm referring specifically to GAF, where only a few people have been crying that the end is near, while a lot of the other posters on that forum is regurgitating that information in posts that makes it sound like they have played it.

What. Is. the Difference?

Regardless of how the descriptions of enjoyment are presented, it's all completely subjective. Holding no more creditability than something someone else says.

"Alot of people are saying it's bad."

"Well, this guy says it's good so calm down! Those others obviously haven't played the game! They're just trolling blah blah blah, blind optimism!"

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

What. Is. the Difference?

Regardless of how the descriptions of enjoyment are presented, it's all completely subjective. Holding no more creditability than something someone else says.

"Alot of people are saying it's bad."

"Well, this guy says it's good so calm down! Those others obviously haven't played the game! They're just trolling blah blah blah, blind optimism!"

The difference is that I never said that.

That and a lot of the complaints (besides the story possibly being horrible, which I've heard mixed things about), don't even sound bad to me. People complained about how Final Fantasy IX was the last real Final Fantasy game when X came out. Guess what? Now the last real Final Fantasy game is X. My point is, I'm not going to let a bunch of nostalgic whiners on GAF who are disappointed that the game wasn't exactly A, B, and C completely change my opinion. I'm taking in all the impressions and weighing them accordingly.

"They're just a bunch of nostalgic whiners. BUT I AM WEIGHING ALL THE IMPRESSIONS ACCORDINGLY."

???


Regardless, I feel that most of you displayed an obvious bias here. I for one am going to have a neutral opinion on the game until I play it. I'm not going to take anyone's impressions to any kind of grain and I suggest you do the same. One man's gold is another man's garbage.

Me? I'm approaching with caution because I feel the last four games in the series were hot trash.