The New Super Mario Bros. Wii Thread of Great Level Design *CLAPCLAPCLAP*

Originally Posted by Quin

That's even worse.

I disagree. It's not as good as simply using the classic controller, but at least it's better than turning the remote sideways.

I agree that the CC should be supported, if only because the D-Pad is pure bliss. I definitely do not enjoy using control sticks to move characters on a 2D plane.

That said, I have no qualms with using the Wiimote on its side. I did that for Mega Man 9 and it was absolutely perfect.

Not counting smash, I'm not that fond of analog sticks in 2D games.
Meh, I probably get used to the controls like in SPM and WL after a while.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

True, the Wiimote is probably the best method of playing this, but it is flawed. It isn't really NSMB's fault, it's a problem with the Wiimote itself. It doesn't have enough buttons, the buttons it does have are too small, and it doesn't fit comfortably in the hand.

Doesn't have enough buttons? Oh, that is rich.

SMB1 made do with 6 buttons. I think NSMBW will survive, since it has 7 accessible buttons and a couple of motion gestures.

Originally Posted by Black_Mamba

♥♥♥♥ you. Not wishing to play the game with a sideways Wiimote in no way makes me immature. Being told to "grow up" over such a trivial matter (by an idiot like you) is, frankly, insulting.

I apologize. I was having an incredibly bad day.

But I still think that it's an incredibly small issue to make a fuss about. People who complain about the Wiimote being turned sideways obviously didn't appreciate the original SMB.

Originally Posted by Sam

Local and online play are equally as important as each other, though in Nintendo's case I prefer to see local multilayer because they make actually playing a game online so ♥♥♥♥ing difficult for everyone involved, and I happen to have the benefit of a few young gaming siblings.

Generally, though, they're just the same thing for two different situations (ie. Your friend is at your home, your friend is at his home), and every game should have them as options, and, where possible, interlinked options where you can play local and online at the same time.

... and in what way does this contradict the "online is too niche to do more than what they've already done for it" statement?

And who exactly is "local and online play equally important" to?

Originally Posted by Double A

Doesn't have enough buttons? Oh, that is rich.

SMB1 made do with 6 buttons. I think NSMBW will survive, since it has 7 accessible buttons and a couple of motion gestures.

That wasn't specifically refering to the use of the Wiimote with NSMBW, that was just refering to the use of the Wiimote in general. For example, both Twilight Princess Wii version and Metroid Prime 3 suffered at points because of the lack of buttons, and the odd button lay out. NSMBW will probably managed with the amount of buttons it has. They're still far too small though, and the Wiimote D-Pad just isn't very responsive at all. I wouldn't criticize NSMBW for it, it is doing its best in with limited resources, but I do hope that for the next iteration of their console, Nintendo can actually make the Wiimote more aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing.

I apologize. I was having an incredibly bad day.

But I still think that it's an incredibly small issue to make a fuss about. People who complain about the Wiimote being turned sideways obviously didn't appreciate the original SMB.

The NES D-Pad was thick and bulky, more of a:

  ||
==  ==
  ||

, and was very responsive.

The Wiimote D-Pad is quite thin, and less finger friendly, like this:

  |
-- --
  |

It also has response issues.

Now, while I played a NES when I was about 5-6 at my cousin's house, he was very young at the time too (8, iirc), and we had one of the NES Easy Grip things, that you attached to the right side of the NES. They had really big, easy to press buttons. I used it all the time when I played AoL, and SMB1 (he didn't have the original tLoZ, it was a while before I played that). However, I did try it without that once, and I appreciated both games far less. So, no, I did appreciate it, however, it was much less frustrating to play when I had a controller that was comfortable in my hands, responsive, and easy to use. It's the same reason I still use a DS Phat, I cannot stand the Lite, it feels too "flimsy" and doesn't sit right in my hands.

... and in what way does this contradict the "online is too niche to do more than what they've already done for it" statement?

And who exactly is "local and online play equally important" to?

Because obviously, MKWii's online wasn't a hit with all the casuals.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

That wasn't specifically refering to the use of the Wiimote with NSMBW, that was just refering to the use of the Wiimote in general. For example, both Twilight Princess Wii version and Metroid Prime 3 suffered at points because of the lack of buttons, and the odd button lay out. NSMBW will probably managed with the amount of buttons it has. They're still far too small though, and the Wiimote D-Pad just isn't very responsive at all. I wouldn't criticize NSMBW for it, it is doing its best in with limited resources, but I do hope that for the next iteration of their console, Nintendo can actually make the Wiimote more aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing.

Well if ergonomics is an issue, maybe Nintendo should just release a slightly-redesigned Wiimote. I have a couple of modifications in mind that involve the placement of some of the buttons.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

It also has response issues.

In my experience, the motion control lag is negligible (sp?), and the button lag is pretty much non-existent.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Because obviously, MKWii's online wasn't a hit with all the casuals.

You're right here. MKWii's online was a hit with the casuals.

You still haven't explained why they should improve it to the liking of the "hardcore" audience (please, Crab, pretend that I'm using my interpretation of the word).

It's easy to make online compatible for both. Simply give people ranks based on their win ratio/score/etc, and match people against other people of around the same rank. Hardcore players get matched against hardcore players, and casuals get matched against casuals. Everybody is pleased, the programming is very simple and basic and consumes very little space, etc, etc. Casuals are pleased because they can play friendly matches with other casuals that are mostly about just messing around, and hardcore players can beat the ♥♥♥♥ into each other with fireballs. To this day, I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that with Brawl.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

It's easy to make online compatible for both. Simply give people ranks based on their win ratio/score/etc, and match people against other people of around the same rank. Hardcore players get matched against hardcore players, and casuals get matched against casuals. Everybody is pleased, the programming is very simple and basic and consumes very little space, etc, etc. Casuals are pleased because they can play friendly matches with other casuals that are mostly about just messing around, and hardcore players can beat the ♥♥♥♥ into each other with fireballs. To this day, I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that with Brawl.

To my understanding, it was something about Brawl being one of the first games to use Wii's online.

And? Console online gaming has been around since at least '96. It's not like there wasn't a clear history of what to do and how they could do it. Brawl's online was just pure developer laziness, and lack of willing from Nintendo to provide dedicated servers.

Originally Posted by Rash

I agree that the CC should be supported, if only because the D-Pad is pure bliss. I definitely do not enjoy using control sticks to move characters on a 2D plane.

That said, I have no qualms with using the Wiimote on its side. I did that for Mega Man 9 and it was absolutely perfect.

This is one of my favorite control schemes. I left Super Paper Mario in my Wii for much longer than it took to beat the game just so I could grind through some of the sidequests because the sideways wiimote felt so awesome.

That wasn't specifically refering to the use of the Wiimote with NSMBW, that was just refering to the use of the Wiimote in general.

I completely agree here. The A buttons should be a thumb-pad with a button, the control stick should be a button, every trigger should be pressure sensitive, and there should be 1, 2, 3, and 4 buttons, instead of just the 1 and 2 buttons.

Originally Posted by KeeSomething

UPDATE:

You can use the Wiimote and nunchuck as an alternate control scheme according to Nintendo Power.

Nice.

Wiimote-only play can be sort of annoying, however, when the Wii Motion Plus is involved.

I play SMB3 pretty smoothly with the Wii remote, so I think I'll be fine with the controls on this one.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

And? Console online gaming has been around since at least '96. It's not like there wasn't a clear history of what to do and how they could do it. Brawl's online was just pure developer laziness, and lack of willing from Nintendo to provide dedicated servers.

People said that Wii's online sucked. I said that there was no reason to improve it. You told me that MKWii's online was good enough, reinforcing my point.

Originally Posted by 8bit

I completely agree here. The A buttons should be a thumb-pad with a button, the control stick should be a button, every trigger should be pressure sensitive, and there should be 1, 2, 3, and 4 buttons, instead of just the 1 and 2 buttons.

That would make a very expensive, ugly, and rather complicated Wiimote.

There can't be 1,2,3 and 4 buttons, that would throw off the symmetry of the Wiimote, which should only be thrown off by the Directional-Pad.

So we're just cutting corners now, are we? Excuse me for wanting quality, as opposed to the bare minimum "good enough".

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

So we're just cutting corners now, are we? Excuse me for wanting quality, as opposed to the bare minimum "good enough".

Again, no contradiction to what I stated earlier:

"Online isn't mainstream enough to do more than what Nintendo have already done for online."

It isn't mainstream because the mainstream company, Nintendo, isn't doing it. That's a cyclical argument is incredibly stupid, and even you must see that.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

It isn't mainstream because the mainstream company, Nintendo, isn't doing it. That's a cyclical argument is incredibly stupid, and even you must see that.

You act as if fleshed-out and technologically superior online play could become mainstream if Nintendo does it.

I say that it wouldnt. If it could, Nintendo would have done it by now.

I was wrong. There is no nunchuck support.
http://www.officialnintendomagazine....e.php?id=12639

As before, some details extracted;
- No Classic Controller support.
- No Nunchuck support.
- Still secrets and surprises that are unknown. One is 'fantastic' and will be appreciated by experts.
- No Galaxy/Space levels.
- Every level is new. There are no rehashed DS levels of any kind.
- Cannot play as Luigi in single player. Must play as Mario.
- Ice powerup and Penguin Suit essentially identical, with the Penguin Suit being better. Not sure why the Ice powerup is in.
- In terms of Mario games, considers World 8 of SMB3 and Lost Levels to be harder, otherwise NSMB Wii is harder than the rest.
- Collecting all the Star Coins is "worth it this time".
- Lakitu's cloud again usable and now moves MUCH faster.
- World system nothing like NSMB, in that you don't need to finish a level with mini Mario to unlock a new world. World progression is in sequence like most Mario titles, with warp cannons being an exception.
- Didn't like the "wah wah" of the DS music, but has grown on him through NSMB Wii. Likes a lot of the music, with plenty of new tracks and some older tracks/tunes returning. Only a couple of duds. Says he doesn't like the desert stuff.9

Originally Posted by Double A

You act as if fleshed-out and technologically superior online play could become mainstream if Nintendo does it.

I say that it wouldnt. If it could, Nintendo would have done it by now.

If all of Nintendo's game supported good online play, they would be definition by mainstream because the majority of games would then support online play.

I say it would. Nintendo just hasn't done it because they like to cut corners and put as little effort as possible into vending their wares.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

If all of Nintendo's game supported good online play, they would be definition by mainstream because the majority of games would then support online play.

Would online really be mainstream if all Nintendo games supported online even if a very small minority used it?

They have racing in Mario 64. Does that make it a racing game?

Wii Sports is a party/local-multiplayer game. So is Resort. I don't see much more than a "hardcore" minority using the online if it was implemented in those games.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I say it would. Nintendo just hasn't done it because they like to cut corners and put as little effort as possible into vending their wares.

No, they just know what will sell. Fleshed-out and technologically superior online doesn't sell to the mainstream. In fact, you could say that online is more than half the reason that MKWii appeals to the "hardcore" crowd.

And whos to say that they aren't already putting effort into their games? Can you honestly tell me that their recent first-party "hardcore" games (sans TP) had little effort put into them?