How do guys feel...

I wonder how many people placing blame on victims have actually been victims themselves. I mean, not even standing from the sidelines and going "oh, that's my best friend, I see it all the time" <--if that's your experience, then that's not what I'm talking about.

Topic at hand. Okay, I'm gonna outright say this: sometimes, I don't mind when Brandon is dominant. Sometimes, I like it. Sometimes I even like the feeling of being "protected". But then I take the lead and he doesn't mind either. Like me, he can find it enjoyable. Sometimes we meet halfway. We compromise, and that isn't always meeting in the middle, but letting the other person have their way and being okay with that because next time round, it'll be your turn. Yep, it's a back-and-forth kinda thing that we both enjoy and it's worked for years in our relationship. I don't feel the need to get all in his face to push him around, like that's my way of showing that I'm independent and strong. I feel that the fact we can give to each other, take from the other, sometimes meet in the centre, and always able to trust the other person to be fair, isn't a sign of strength for the individual, but a sign of strength of our relationship.

I like it when we both are in the same pants.

My current girlfriend, I wish she'd be a lot more agressive, because she won't tell me what she wants to do in fear of dragging me or making me do something I don't want to do, and the thing is that I don't really care, and I really want her to tell me we're going to do something that she would enjoy. Like I'll suggest something that she doesn't really want to do, but she will anyway. Don't get me wrong, that's really sweet of her in every way, but when we go do it, she seems bored, but she acts like she's having fun. I can read her like a book, and she can read me, so I know exactly when she's not having for or etc. So if I were to ask her to go somewhere, or if she wanted too, I'd want her to say "I'm not really up for anything like that today, could we just go here or there"

So she's letting me wear the pants, but I would much rather share, because I believe I'd have a lot more fun doing things she'd be having fun doing as well.

I love her to death, and I know she always means well. It's just I wish she could think of what she'd want a little more.

Originally Posted by Liah

I wonder how many people placing blame on victims have actually been victims themselves. I mean, not even standing from the sidelines and going "oh, that's my best friend, I see it all the time" <--if that's your experience, then that's not what I'm talking about.

Topic at hand. Okay, I'm gonna outright say this: sometimes, I don't mind when Brandon is dominant. Sometimes, I like it. Sometimes I even like the feeling of being "protected". But then I take the lead and he doesn't mind either. Like me, he can find it enjoyable. Sometimes we meet halfway. We compromise, and that isn't always meeting in the middle, but letting the other person have their way and being okay with that because next time round, it'll be your turn. Yep, it's a back-and-forth kinda thing that we both enjoy and it's worked for years in our relationship. I don't feel the need to get all in his face to push him around, like that's my way of showing that I'm independent and strong. I feel that the fact we can give to each other, take from the other, sometimes meet in the centre, and always able to trust the other person to be fair, isn't a sign of strength for the individual, but a sign of strength of our relationship.

Indeed. A relationship is about thinking as one!

Originally Posted by John

Define "fault", then, since I wonder if we aren't using different definitions

fault

fault [fawlt]
n (plural faults)
1. responsibility for mistake: responsibility for a mistake, failure, or act of wrongdoing
It's his fault we're late.

2. personal shortcoming: a failing or character weakness in somebody
My main fault is laziness.

3. defect: something that detracts from the integrity, functioning, or perfection of something else
an electrical fault

I am defining 'fault' with the first one here. Although, the second one could be used as well. The abused victim can be partially blamed(thus his/her fault) for not acting when he or she needed to.

I'm using it to mean that the person who is "at fault" is the one causing the problem, the abuser. You seem to be using it to refer to the person who allows the abuse to happen, the abusee, which, to me, is blaming the victim.

So you admit that the person is allowing it to happen as well then?
And ONCE AGAIN, I am not placing FULL blame on the shoulders of the victim. I am not saying it is his or her fault that they were abused in the first place, just that continued to allow it to happen.

And, once again, you're completely ignoring the entire psychological aspect to abuse.

I am certainly not. I fully understand that one can become so psychologically messed up through this whole ordeal. It is a very complicated issue.
But the majority of people who go through this, even if they may be psychologically disturbed(as I am guessing most do become) to some extent, still possess within themselves the will, intelligence and ability to get the **** out. They just need to find it within themselves or get help.
Ya know, this is becoming very repetitive. I feel like you are not understanding my words

...Maybe we're also talking about different kinds of abuse. I'm talking about chronic, severe abuse.

No, we speak of the same type.

No, they don't need to "find their courage", they need help. Outside help.

*facepalm* Yes, they do. And like I have said before, yes, they need to find help. And perhaps some need to find their courage to find help.

Listen, I know I am coming off somewhat harsh, but this is really the only way that 80% of these people will truly be able to get out of these terrible situations. Sometimes, one must help themselves. Survival of the fittest.
And I suppose all anyone else can do is try to recognize signs that would tell if one is being abused, then seek the necessary help, since in most cases, the victims are too weak and psychologically disturbed to do it themselves.

Let's just drop the blame game. It is never smart to start playing it anyway. Nor does it really matter.

Originally Posted by ValaVarda

*facepalm* Yes, they do. And like I have said before, yes, they need to find help. And perhaps some need to find their courage to find help.

Listen, I know I am coming off somewhat harsh, but this is really the only way that 80% of these people will truly be able to get out of these terrible situations. Sometimes, one must help themselves. Survival of the fittest.
And I suppose all anyone else can do is try to recognize signs that would tell if one is being abused, then seek the necessary help, since in most cases, the victims are too weak and psychologically disturbed to do it themselves.

Let's just drop the blame game. It is never smart to start playing it anyway. Nor does it really matter.

I've only been here a short while, but it seems to me that having an argument with John is something of a futile effort. He rationalizes things to the degree that most other ideas are completely shut out.

Its very hard to set out one single rule for these kinds of situations. Human interactions have far too many variables to say one straight thing for a single situation.

But it is by my experience, both personally and through friends, that the reason abuse continues is because the abused party allows it to. If it happens once, it is solely the fault of the abuser. But if it happens twice or more it is because that person refuses to act in their own best interest.

Of course, it is so difficult to have perspective when someone treats you in a horrible way.

Originally Posted by ValaVarda

I am defining 'fault' with the first one here. Although, the second one could be used as well. The abused victim can be partially blamed(thus his/her fault) for not acting when he or she needed to.

Can? Yes. Should be? No.

So you admit that the person is allowing it to happen as well then?

No, I "admit" that the person is having things done to them.

And ONCE AGAIN, I am not placing FULL blame on the shoulders of the victim. I am not saying it is his or her fault that they were abused in the first place, just that continued to allow it to happen.

New tack: Why does it matter if they allow it to happen?

Ya know, this is becoming very repetitive. I feel like you are not understanding my words

No, I understand, I just disagree.

*facepalm* Yes, they do. And like I have said before, yes, they need to find help. And perhaps some need to find their courage to find help.

Listen, I know I am coming off somewhat harsh, but this is really the only way that 80% of these people will truly be able to get out of these terrible situations. Sometimes, one must help themselves. Survival of the fittest.

"Survival of the fittest"? Truly?

I, again, think that you are severely underestimating the psychological factors.
If someone breaks their leg, no amount of telling them to walk to the hospital will allow them to do so. It's similar in many abuse situations. The fact that the "broken bone" is mental, instead of physical, doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by John

New tack: Why does it matter if they allow it to happen?

If they did not allow it to happen to them then it would not be happening to them. And no, it really doesn't matter who is to blame, thus what I said at the end of my last post =P

No, I understand, I just disagree.

I may see it in a different light than you because of what I or you have been through. Maybe we are not connecting because we both have had different experiences and thus see it different ways.

"Survival of the fittest"? Truly?

I knew you would quote me on that, now I shall have a hard time trying to explain xD
I didn't mean to make it sound so harsh. But I believe that realistically only the fittest will get their courage to get out. It just depends on who is strong enough to survive. By survive I don't mean SURVIVE, I mean just find the will(that power within each of us) to get out of a situation that can become life threatening.

I, again, think that you are severely underestimating the psychological factors.
If someone breaks their leg, no amount of telling them to walk to the hospital will allow them to do so. It's similar in many abuse situations. The fact that the "broken bone" is mental, instead of physical, doesn't really matter.

Did you hear about the man who a few years back went on a bike ride by himself in Utah, got his hand wedged between a boulder and a pit in a canyon, cut his own hand off and hobbled some tens of miles to get back to his car(with severe blood loss, dehydration, and no food) and survived? His name is Aron Ralston, and he is truly an amazing man who proves that anything is possible within the human mind and when it comes to survival, humans will do some amazing things if they care enough or have the strong will to. Here.
I believe we are capable of these thing. Each and every one of us.
If my leg were broken, and I needed medical attention, and HAD to walk to the hospital, I would. Or I would die trying.

My only problem with women 'wearing the pants' is they always think it gives them the right to attack their man in some way, but then hide behind the spineless law to avoid retribution.

Originally Posted by Lord Evan

But it is by my experience, both personally and through friends, that the reason abuse continues is because the abused party allows it to. If it happens once, it is solely the fault of the abuser. But if it happens twice or more it is because that person refuses to act in their own best interest.

Again, this smacks of blaming the victim.

It could very well be true (though I do question that) but why bring it up?

Originally Posted by ValaVarda

Did you hear about the man who a few years back went on a bike ride by himself in Utah, got his hand wedged between a boulder and a pit in a canyon, cut his own hand off and hobbled some tens of miles to get back to his car(with severe blood loss, dehydration, and no food) and survived? His name is Aron Ralston, and he is truly an amazing man who proves that anything is possible within the human mind and when it comes to survival, humans will do some amazing things if they care enough or have the strong will to. Here.
I believe we are capable of these thing. Each and every one of us.
If my leg were broken, and I needed medical attention, and HAD to walk to the hospital, I would. Or I would die trying.

Yes, I've heard of it. I've heard of it because it's so ludicrously uncommon that it made newspapers everywhere.

And the difference, they key difference, is that while it is painful as hell to cut off your own hand and walk to civilization (and the man who did so is amazing on many levels) it is still actually possible for the human body to do that.

One cannot walk on a broken leg. It's not just a matter of pain, it's a matter of physics. A completely fractured bone simply cannot support one's weight and will collapse, which was rather the point of my simile.

Your brain being unable to act a certain way is, I'd argue, no different from your leg being physically incapable of supporting your weight. All the will power in the world won't change it.

Originally Posted by ifm2181

My only problem with women 'wearing the pants' is they always think it gives them the right to attack their man in some way, but then hide behind the spineless law to avoid retribution.

Stereotype much?

Originally Posted by KelseyRain

Okay, so one of my girl friend's is in a relationship with some sweetheart hottie, but she's kinda aggressive (in a good way). She's kinda the dominant one in the relationship, and he doesn't seem to mind.

This has been nagging at me for some time, but how do guys feel about girls wearing the pants in a relationship? o.O

My girl is in charge 24/7. Can't complain

Originally Posted by John

Yes, I've heard of it. I've heard of it because it's so ludicrously uncommon that it made newspapers everywhere.

And the difference, they key difference, is that while it is painful as hell to cut off your own hand and walk to civilization (and the man who did so is amazing on many levels) it is still actually possible for the human body to do that.

One cannot walk on a broken leg. It's not just a matter of pain, it's a matter of physics. A completely fractured bone simply cannot support one's weight and will collapse, which was rather the point of my simile.

Your brain being unable to act a certain way is, I'd argue, no different from your leg being physically incapable of supporting your weight. All the will power in the world won't change it.

Of course it is rare. That is what I said. It is a rare individual who will actually overcome something like that be it physical, mental, emotional or all.
However, I believe almost anyone can do this.
And I would crawl, drag myself or whatever. I would at least attempt to save myself.
And now I feel like the argument is jumping to something completely different =/ I think you just like to argue about anything.
I also like how you completely disregarded everything else I said in my last post =/

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

You gotta stop watchin anime, brah

How pathetic. I don't learn anything by watching anime. I learn things for myself, and if you do not agree, then why do you speak? *laughs*

Too bad of me as well, to be nearly the same, posting this publicly.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

How pathetic. I don't learn anything by watching anime. I learn things for myself, and if you do not agree, then why do you speak? *laughs*

Too bad of me as well, to be nearly the same, posting this publicly.

You guys have this seriously out of control need to feel superior. Particularly a need to call people pathetic.

Is this like...condoned?

Originally Posted by KelseyRain

This has been nagging at me for some time, but how do guys feel about girls wearing the pants in a relationship? o.O

It's a turn on and will no doubt sell copies of my future biography as a team of researchers band together to understand the dynamic between my love for freedom and being smothered by a dominant and forceful woman's ass cheeks.

But really, all the girls I've ever been attracted to have been very outgoing and independent. It runs parallel to my introversion and need for security.

I'm personally don't like the idea that a couple must have someone dominant and someone submissive. A couple should strive for equality in their relationship.

Originally Posted by Dread

I'm personally don't like the idea that a couple must have someone dominant and someone submissive. A couple should strive for equality in their relationship.

Hm, I agree with you personally, but I don't see anything wrong with two people who are okay with one being more dominant or submissive than the other as long as there is not abuse occurring.
Some people have a harder time making decisions thus the other person will take charge when necessary, which for some may happen quite a bit.
Eh, I see no harm in it. I don't think every couple should strive for equality if the construction of their relationship works perfectly fine for them. To each his or her own.

Someone always will be more dominant in a relationship, even if both parties strive for equality. I personally dont think theres anything wrong with a female wearing the pants in a relationship if that is what works for that particular couple. My take on this is that males should always atleast try to be more dominant. Men are obviously born leaders and that in alot of ocassions sparks something in women when they have a man that knows how to take control. In the nature of the jungle the female lion always go with the more dominant male. It is in our dna to lead.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

How pathetic. I don't learn anything by watching anime. I learn things for myself, and if you do not agree, then why do you speak? *laughs*

Wait, the only people you allow to talk to you are people who agree? What's the point of that?

And I take it you've personally experienced both being shot in the head for cowardice and bled to death after being impaled?

I'm generally very submissive, so she wears the pants.

I don't really tend to mind, however I do prefer to be the dominant one, every so often, but there's nothing wrong with the woman taking the lead role in the bedroom either. I think that most guys don't tend to mind, they like the fact their woman are inclined to do such things.