How do guys feel...

Originally Posted by KelseyRain

Okay, so one of my girl friend's is in a relationship with some sweetheart hottie, but she's kinda aggressive (in a good way). She's kinda the dominant one in the relationship, and he doesn't seem to mind.

This has been nagging at me for some time, but how do guys feel about girls wearing the pants in a relationship? o.O

Well, I think guys really don't care at all actually......... The only thing I can see a guy caring about is having the girlfriend buying everything. Unless he's a douche bag. >_< Me, personally, I wish my girlfriend were a little more aggressive with things....... Like some of my ex-girlfriends were. I hate it when a girl I'm dating "HAS" to get my word for something....... Like I'm their parent or something......... I don't know if that's a closure thing with girls or something but I can't stand it. Anyways, back on topic.......... Like I said, it shouldn't matter to guys unless the girlfriend starts to buy things for them when it should be the other way around.

I think guys don't care at first, but it might not last. But if the guy is 'dominant' in the relationship, it is maybe less likely to last. Ideally, there should be no 'dominant' one.

Originally Posted by John

Save that, depending on what kind of abuse we're talking about, many people can't "get out". Not by themselves, anyways. Few things are better than abuse at sapping initiative and self confidence. Someone who is routinely abused won't try to get away out of fear of making the abuser angry, or because they quite literally can't even think of leaving.

If we were talking about an emotionless person, then I'd agree. But rare is the person who can just walk away from a sufficiently abusive relationship.

I totally agree. This does not, however, change the fact that it is his or her fault. However weak one may be, they still allow it to happen. No matter how scared they are, it is still happening because the abuser is a jackass/lunatic and the victim is continuing to let it happen without getting any help. They are allowing their fear to get the best of them.
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It is just a terrible thing, abuse is. The people being beaten every night need to find their courage and get out or get some help. That is all there is to it. We can only hope for the best. I hope they can find their courage.
Watch Not Without My Daughter. Good movie. Very inspiring. And true story.

Originally Posted by ValaVarda

I totally agree. This does not, however, change the fact that it is his or her fault. However weak one may be, they still allow it to happen. No matter how scared they are, it is still happening because the abuser is a jackass/lunatic and the victim is continuing to let it happen without getting any help. They are allowing their fear to get the best of them.
=/
It is just a terrible thing, abuse is. The people being beaten every night need to find their courage and get out or get some help. That is all there is to it. We can only hope for the best. I hope they can find their courage.
Watch Not Without My Daughter. Good movie. Very inspiring. And true story.

Yep.

Those who fear are incredibly pathetic. They will know no good, and will die horribly.

Which is worse, a brave man getting impaled as he says his last words with pride, and his body painfully seeps down? Or a man frightened and worried and horribly terrified and gets shot in the head?

Pain has nothing to do with how bad or better a death is. It is the dier's decision how they die.

Yup, Lets blame the victim.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

Yep.

Those who fear are incredibly pathetic. They will know no good, and will die horribly.

Which is worse, a brave man getting impaled as he says his last words with pride, and his body painfully seeps down? Or a man frightened and worried and horribly terrified and gets shot in the head?

Pain has nothing to do with how bad or better a death is. It is the dier's decision how they die.

I don't mean to step on your toes here but you seem to disvalue the complexity of an idea like mortality.

I mean, aside from fear being a natural part of the human condition, which it has been since species developed nervous systems complex enough to process emotion, death really is something to be feared. Part of understanding death is being afraid of it. And the fact is that none of us will have noble deaths. We will not be stabbed on a field of battle as you so dramatically put it. Our bodies will grow old, our bodies will break down, and eventually the right part of our weak organs will snap and our lives, everything we have ever known or loved, will be gone.

If that is not absolutely terrifying I do not know what is.

To disregard emotions that are considered 'weak' is an arrogant and childish world view. To push those feelings away is to harm yourself. Fear is what keeps us alive. But if we accept it, we let it in, we understand it, it will likely save us one day.

The key in these situations is to know what you need to be afraid of. And what you need to fear is what will happen to you if you let that person hurt you any longer. Not the retribution that may or may not come if you leave.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

Yep.

Those who fear are incredibly pathetic. They will know no good, and will die horribly.

Which is worse, a brave man getting impaled as he says his last words with pride, and his body painfully seeps down? Or a man frightened and worried and horribly terrified and gets shot in the head?

Pain has nothing to do with how bad or better a death is. It is the dier's decision how they die.

Courage is the ability to act despite fear, not without fear.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

Yep.

Those who fear are incredibly pathetic. They will know no good, and will die horribly.

Which is worse, a brave man getting impaled as he says his last words with pride, and his body painfully seeps down? Or a man frightened and worried and horribly terrified and gets shot in the head?

Pain has nothing to do with how bad or better a death is. It is the dier's decision how they die.

You gotta stop watchin anime, brah

I love how everyone is seeing things in Black and White.

"Oh, the victim is responsible because he or she didn't do anything to prevent it."

Never mind the fact that other factors might be involved. For example, an abusive husband. So, the wife stands up to him. What if the abusive husband then gets even angrier and fatally wounds her? Or, what if she leaves? Who's to say the husband won't chase after her, or use a close loved one as a means of getting her back?

Or, a victim of a mugging. Who's to say the the robber won't have a gun or a knife? If some dude is trying to beat several shades out of me for a measly £10, is it really worth potentially risking your life over something so meaningless? I'd much rather lose a little of my pride then lose my life over it. People get attacked all the time, you're not the first or last. Or, what if the mugger is literally twice the size of you? What exactly are you going to do, ask politely to stop?

Standing up to a bully seems like a nice idea in theory, but it doesn't always work out with you being the ultimate victor.

Teej makes a good point. There is no such thing as black and white. None of us can ever know the full story

However if a dude starts hittin his gal I think it's safe to say that she should try to get out lol

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

Teej makes a good point. There is no such thing as black and white. None of us can ever know the full story

However if a dude starts hittin his gal I think it's safe to say that she should try to get out lol

Oh yeah, definitely, that **** isn't right. Additionally, asking friends for help in this instance is also a great thing to do. Going at it by yourself only makes things harder.

Yeah friends help. Especially if your friend is a wise cracking, independent black woman, if Lifetime network has taught me anything. And by "anything" I mean "everything"

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

Yeah friends help. Especially if your friend is a wise cracking, independent black woman, if Lifetime network has taught me anything. And by "anything" I mean "everything"

Or alternatively, a renegade cop on the edge with nothing to lose, if FOX network has taught me anything. And by anything, I mean nothing.

Here are my two shillings/cents: Women should stand up for themselves.

If I had a girlfriend, I want one who is strong-willed and able to get what she wants. Of course, there has to be two sides in a relationship. If she gets to have a voice, I can have a voice and we BOTH get to sit down and discuss what we should do and compromise. No one side gets to be overbearing on another.

Most guys I've known would be horrified at the idea of girlfriends getting hurt. Not all are overbearing brutes who like to smack women around.

This is a conversation that's doomed to repetition. "Hitting girls is bad. Girls who are strong willed are good." I mean, how much more can be said on the topic, unless some guy kicks down the internet door here and starts talking about how much he looooves choking his ***** the **** out

Originally Posted by candc32

now, people who can see they are being abused, can get out, weather they get out via police help or packing and leaving during the night.

Define "can".

I agree that it is physically possible.
But it's not always...psychologically possible. As I said, abuse saps initiative and increases reliance on the abuser.

Now people who are in fear their abuser will be anger, WTF? just leave screw what they want you are person with ****ing real thoughts!!

And, again, you're assuming that the abusee has no emotions and thinks perfectly logically about everything.

There may be people out there like that, but they don't get into deeply abusive relationships. The kind of people who are likely to find themselves in a deeply abusive relationship are probably also the kind who didn't have a huge amount of initiative to start with and who the abuser has some level of control over.

Many people leave abusive relationships everyday and nothing happens bad happens to them, take a cue and just leave.

And many people leave them and end up badly beaten or killed.

But, again, that's not the point.

Originally Posted by ValaVarda

I totally agree. This does not, however, change the fact that it is his or her fault. However weak one may be, they still allow it to happen. No matter how scared they are, it is still happening because the abuser is a jackass/lunatic and the victim is continuing to let it happen without getting any help. They are allowing their fear to get the best of them.

Define "fault", then, since I wonder if we aren't using different definitions.

I'm using it to mean that the person who is "at fault" is the one causing the problem, the abuser. You seem to be using it to refer to the person who allows the abuse to happen, the abusee, which, to me, is blaming the victim.

And, once again, you're completely ignoring the entire psychological aspect to abuse.


...Maybe we're also talking about different kinds of abuse. I'm talking about chronic, severe abuse.

It is just a terrible thing, abuse is. The people being beaten every night need to find their courage and get out or get some help. That is all there is to it. We can only hope for the best. I hope they can find their courage.
Watch Not Without My Daughter. Good movie. Very inspiring. And true story.

No, they don't need to "find their courage", they need help. Outside help.

Originally Posted by The Mask Man

Yep.

Those who fear are incredibly pathetic. They will know no good, and will die horribly.

Winston Churchill seemed to do all right.

Which is worse, a brave man getting impaled as he says his last words with pride, and his body painfully seeps down? Or a man frightened and worried and horribly terrified and gets shot in the head?

The first, by far. Not only is his death ridiculously more painful, but if he's getting impaled in this day and age he's almost certainly done something stupid.

Courage is useful, but so is fear. To argue that one or the other has no merit is incredibly foolish.

Plus, of course, courage doesn't mean "knows no fear", it means "acts despite feeling fear." And, it should be noted, it seems safe to assume that different people feel fear to different extents and react in ways that they can't control ("fight or flight" is hind-brain, not our conscious fore-brain.)

You seem like you probably love Gurren Lagann, no? Perhaps you should remember one of Kamina's last scenes where he points out that not only is the fearful Simon actually far more brave than he is, able to do far more despite feeling far more fear, but is also more intelligent and practical, and far less likely to give up.

There's a message in there somewhere, I just know it.

Originally Posted by dangercheetah

However if a dude starts hittin his gal I think it's safe to say that she should try to get out lol

Yes, but it needs to be acknowledged that she cannot always do so, for a variety of reasons, some psychological, some practical (in many domestic abuse cases the woman has no higher education, so can't get a job and is dependant on the abuser financially.)

Originally Posted by John

Yes, but it needs to be acknowledged that she cannot always do so, for a variety of reasons, some psychological, some practical (in many domestic abuse cases the woman has no higher education, so can't get a job and is dependant on the abuser financially.)

I do acknowledge, and allow me to reiterate for clarity:

The woman should make getting out her immediate goal, through whatever means that would cause the least amount of danger for her

Alright, but what do you mean by "should"?

I agree that, in an ideal case, that's what would happen. But, again, let's assume that this is a "classic" abuse situation, with the abusee so emotionally sapped that they literally can't even think of leaving, what then?

Originally Posted by John

Alright, but what do you mean by "should"?

I agree that, in an ideal case, that's what would happen. But, again, let's assume that this is a "classic" abuse situation, with the abusee so emotionally sapped that they literally can't even think of leaving, what then?

Then there is very little anyone can do for her, unless some guy comes along and rescues her from her abuser. Even then, short of MURDERING the guy, you can be a white knight all day long, ultimately the abused person must take that stand, or else they will remain abused.

Not that it's their fault, it's just how it is. It's a cryin' shame, but you can't force her to do something she's not going to do

Traditionally, guys should be the dominant one in the relationships. Due to our nature, it is usually that way.

However, if they like each other and are fine with it, I have no objections.