Ruins of the English Language

Also, "celeb" is the most skin-rippingly annoying and embarrassing "word" ever.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

That reminds me of another thing... sometimes people add another syllable to a word that shouldn't have that many, like door (some people say "doh-wah" instead of "doah" instead of "dore"). This probably coincides with the Bostonian accent too, but I'm actually not sure, as no one in my area talks like that so I don't hear it often.

I think this might be a Jewish thing... like New York Jewish... Whenever I think of a frumpy Jewish lady, I think of an accent like Edith Bunker (look it up kiddies).

Originally Posted by Margar

You may be partially right, there... I seem to remember (but I could be off) that the "ee" pronunciation should come before a word that starts in a vowel. "Thee end" "thee other side" and the "uh" to be in front of words starting with a consonant "the bunny" "the dugout".

...okay, I hadn't thought of that. It's the kind of thing I do without thinking about it.

This is ALL regional preference. There is a Louisville, Ohio that is pronounced "LOO-iss-vill", but I've also heard "LOO-ey-vill" (Kentucky?) and even "LOO-uh-vull". kinda like Greenwich village (wherever that is, can't remember) is pronounced "grennitch" but there's a Greenwich, Ohio that is pronounced exactly as it looks.

I do believe Greenwich is somewhere in the vicinity of London. I don't know where exactly, though. As for the pronunciation of it, that's actually fairly standard for place names; bear in mind that a lot of them kinda pre-date modern English.

You are correct here. It's about the sound, not the actual letter. In some dialects, Hs at the beginning of a word are not pronounced,so in those cases, you'd use "an". but generally, your presumption is correct. I take it that you do pronounce Hs at the beginnings of words like hospital and history?

Um...yes? O.o You mean there are people that don't?

"Tons" is the American way. it equals 2,000 pounds.

In that case, that would be the imperial way. I realise most of the world doesn't use it anymore, but that doesn't mean you get to re-name it.

It also annoys me when I listen to the BBC and hear the announcers saying our president's name as "BEAR-ack o-BOHM-er" I understand that dialects and accents are different, but a person's name is their name. it's not really debatable. (for the record, it's "buh-ROCK o-BOMB-ah [or "uh"]")

...I thought it was Bar-ack Oh-barm-ah? Y'know, pronouncing it how it's actually spelt?

Originally Posted by Tiroth

...I thought it was Bar-ack Oh-barm-ah? Y'know, pronouncing it how it's actually spelt?

it's NOT spelt with an R!!!
this goes back to my uneccesary R rant.
there is no R in Obama.

it's o-BOMB-ah. Rhyme's with yo mama!

not o-BARM-a.

also, the first name pronunciation there is vague.
it's "buh-ROCK"

Originally Posted by Margar

it's NOT spelt with an R!!!
this goes back to my uneccesary R rant.
there is no R in Obama.

You're forgetting that he is British, when he says barm he is pronouncing it bahhm. :3

Originally Posted by Margar

it's NOT spelt with an R!!!
this goes back to my uneccesary R rant.
there is no R in Obama.

it's o-BOMB-ah. Rhyme's with yo mama!

not o-BARM-a.

also, the first name pronunciation there is vague.
it's "buh-ROCK"

Keep in mind that "barm-ah" in Britain would be the equivalent of "bah-mah" in the States.
EDIT: Dammit, Cody.

Originally Posted by Margar

it's NOT spelt with an R!!!
this goes back to my uneccesary R rant.
there is no R in Obama.

it's o-BOMB-ah. Rhyme's with yo mama!

not o-BARM-a.

There's no o in that position, either, and a single a can sometimes have an ar sound. I have no idea how the man himself pronounces it, but from where I'm sitting, O-barm-ah makes more sense. If it helps, think of it more as an ah than ar - they sound almost the same anyway.

also, the first name pronunciation there is vague.
it's "buh-ROCK"

...why the u? O.o

EDIT: ...ninja'd. Twice. >.>

...it's Barack Obama, without an R. Get over it.

Originally Posted by Tiroth

...why the u? O.o

From my point of view it makes sense...
Over here, "buh" puts less emphasis on that syllable than "bah" does. Most people glaze over the first syllable, so it would sound weird if people pronounced it "baah-ROCK". "Buh-ROCK" shortens the first syllable when you're reading it.
I suspect that's why.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

From my point of view it makes sense...
Over here, "buh" puts less emphasis on that syllable than "bah" does. Most people glaze over the first syllable, so it would sound weird if people pronounced it "baah-ROCK". "Buh-ROCK" shortens the first syllable when you're reading it.
I suspect that's why.

Sorry, but I don't really get it. Bah-rock and Buh-rock would have exactly the same emphasis as far as I can tell, and Buh-rock would be wrong anyway because I'd be pronouncing a u instead of an a.

Also...why Bah-rock? Again, it's an a, not an o, so shouldn't it be Bah-rack?

Originally Posted by Tiroth

Sorry, but I don't really get it. Bah-rock and Buh-rock would have exactly the same emphasis as far as I can tell, and Buh-rock would be wrong anyway because I'd be pronouncing a u instead of an a.

Also...why Bah-rock? Again, it's an a, not an o, so shouldn't it be Bah-rack?

They'd essentially come out the same. However, when reading it, someone (who's American) would assume the first syllable has more emphasis than people put on it. "bah-ROCK" and "buh-ROCK" essentially sound the same, but "buh" is what it sounds more like. Almost like "brock" in two syllables.

Again, it's the difference in accent.
"Bah-rack" would look like it rhymes with "tennis racket" to an American. "Rock" is closer to how it's actually pronounced, which is somewhere between "rock" and "rahck".

As far as I can tell, Americans either pronounce it Bah-rahk or Bah-rack, similar to how some pronounce manga as mahn-ga and some pronounce it man-ga.

Originally Posted by Cody

As far as I can tell, Americans either pronounce it Bah-rahk or Bah-rack, similar to how some pronounce manga as mahn-ga and some pronounce it man-ga.

People only pronounce it as "maahn-ga" because that's how it is in Japan (and you know Japanophiles). If they didn't know that, I'd assume almost everyone in the US would pronounce it "mane-guh".

...mane-gah? O.o Shouldn't it be man-ga? Seen as that's how it's actually spelt an' all...

Originally Posted by Tiroth

...mane-gah? O.o Shouldn't it be man-ga? Seen as that's how it's actually spelt an' all...

"mane-gah" sounds like "mango", only with a short "a" sound at the end.
Also, spelling =/= pronunciation, no matter what kind of English you speak.
I get the feeling you don't quite see what the deal is with how these pronunciations are spelled out. That's not how they're actually spelled, I'm just spelling them similarly to how they're said. Most people I hear start "manga" with "mane", like a lion's mane. I guess you could also write it "main", "meyn", or whatever.

"Man-ga" would just sound like "mann-guh", or sound like "man gut" without the "t".

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

People only pronounce it as "maahn-ga" because that's how it is in Japan (and you know Japanophiles). If they didn't know that, I'd assume almost everyone in the US would pronounce it "mane-guh".

Pronouncing Japanese words correctly isn't about being a Japanophile. When people pronounce french loan words like "rendezvous" correctly I don't see people claiming that they are Francophiles for not pronouncing it "Ren-dez-vouse". :/

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

"mane-gah" sounds like "mango", only with a short "a" sound at the end.
Also, spelling =/= pronunciation, no matter what kind of English you speak.

When encountering a new word for the first time, spelling does equal pronunciation, especially if it's a relatively new word and actually meant to be counted as English. And, uh, mango doesn't have a mane sound in it. At all. It's "man-go". :/

EDIT:

I get the feeling you don't quite see what the deal is with how these pronunciations are spelled out. That's not how they're actually spelled, I'm just spelling them similarly to how they're said. Most people I hear start "manga" with "mane", like a lion's mane. I guess you could also write it "main", "meyn", or whatever.

I know exactly what you mean, and I have never, ever heard anyone pronounce these words like that before.

"Man-ga" would just sound like "mann-guh", or sound like "man gut" without the "t".

...then why are you saying that it uses a mane sound? They're completely different.

Originally Posted by Cody

Pronouncing Japanese words correctly isn't about being a Japanophile. When people pronounce french loan words like "rendezvous" correctly I don't see people claiming that they are Francophiles for not pronouncing it "Ren-dez-vouse". :/

But people don't do it all the time.
We have freakin' Spanish-named cities that NOBODY pronounces right (like "Los Angeles").
But I was mostly joking about that part. C'mon, you know the only reason they pronounce it like that is because it's Japanese.

Originally Posted by Tiroth

When encountering a new word for the first time, spelling does equal pronunciation, especially if it's a relatively new word and actually meant to be counted as English. And, uh, mango doesn't have a mane sound in it. At all. It's "man-go". :/

Difference in accent. Over here it's "mane-goh".
If spelling equals pronunciation, how do you say "Leicester"?

EDIT:

I know exactly what you mean, and I have never, ever heard anyone pronounce these words like that before.

Because you don't live in America. Either that or we both are pronouncing it exactly the same way, but differences in accent make explaining it impossible.

...then why are you saying that it uses a mane sound? They're completely different.

Yes they are.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Difference in dialect. Over here it's "mane-goh".
If spelling equals pronunciation, how do you say "Leicester"?

I refer you to a previous post of mine:

Originally Posted by Tiroth

As for the pronunciation of it, that's actually fairly standard for place names; bear in mind that a lot of them kinda pre-date modern English.

But for the record, it's "Lestuh".

EDIT:

Because you don't live in America. Either that or we both are pronouncing it exactly the same way, but differences in accent make explaining it impossible.

I have, however, met a number of Americans, and they still don't pronounce words that way.

With the mango and manga words...I would tend to pronounce them as "man-gah" or "man-go", but if there's a soft g, rather than a hard g, ie. as in mange, I would pronounce the "man" as "mane".