Meditations on the Current Generation (Also Socialism sucks)

Read my latest post, it solves all the problems while not being red.

I know, if US had a universal healthcare system it would suck a great deal less.

I just don't like people bashing socialist ideas and thinking capitalism is the best thing ever.

The only reason they do is because they simply don't know better, it's highly doubtful any one of us here will benefit in any way from capitalism. In fact, many will suffer because of the highly capitalistic methods of the United States as it is.

Those who don't live in the US already live in countries that have socialistic programs in place, and therefore do not live in a completely capitalistic society and basically know nothing of what they speak. Luckily, they haven't infected this topic yet.

Capitalism on it's own sucks far worse than socialism, that is all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Aziel Satori

I know, if US had a universal healthcare system it would suck a great deal less.

I just don't like people bashing socialist ideas and thinking capitalism is the best thing ever.

The only reason they do is because they simply don't know better, it's highly doubtful any one of us here will benefit in any way from capitalism. In fact, many will suffer because of the highly capitalistic methods of the United States as it is.

Those who don't live in the US already live in countries that have socialistic programs in place, and therefore do not live in a completely capitalistic society and basically know nothing of what they speak. Luckily, they haven't infected this topic yet.

Capitalism on it's own sucks far worse than socialism, that is all I'm saying.

You implying I live in the US? That's the LAST first world country I'd want to live in.

I live in Australia, which is similar to the US in many ways, except corporate greed is not as prevalent. I'd prefer not to go into details.

Why do you need to? Just say the US sucks when it comes to economy and you will be dead on accurate without needing further explanation.

If I could leave and be able to settle in a different first world country I would, but I can't and due to the way G8 seems to work I wouldn't even receive the benefits native to that country anyway.

So I'm just hoping Obama gets elected and he gets the UHC bill passed.

I'm only saying that those who don't know shouldn't talk, but you do know so don't worry.

I've just seen far too many children post things just because it's popular to do so, despite that they have no actual knowledge about what is being discussed, you aren't one of those types of people.

Originally Posted by Aziel Satori

Capitalism on it's own, fails the people. Same with communism.

You cannot ignore the fact that combined the two make a wondeful and effective system if done properly.

You cannot ignore the fact that healthcare in the US is terrible and many people are uninsured because employers can no longer afford to provide benefits and private insurance is too costly.

You know it costs almost a hundred dollars in some places to fill a gas tank, and you expect people to be able to afford health insurance? Man, they cannot even afford to pay their rent anymore.

The government only provides Emergency healthcare and even that blows.

Something has to give. Capitalism succeeds only for the rich.

It doesn't cost 100 dollars to fill up. I mean I pay 40$ to fill my 15 galleon tank. Minimum wage is 7 something an hour, and rarely do you always start out on it. People just need to think.

Originally Posted by Aziel Satori

Why do you need to? Just say the US sucks when it comes to economy and you will be dead on accurate without needing further explanation.

If I could leave and be able to settle in a different first world country I would, but I can't and due to the way G8 seems to work I wouldn't even receive the benefits native to that country anyway.

So I'm just hoping Obama gets elected and he gets the UHC bill passed.

I'm only saying that those who don't know shouldn't talk, but you do know so don't worry.

I've just seen far too many children post things just because it's popular to do so, despite that they have no actual knowledge about what is being discussed, you aren't one of those types of people.

**** Obama

Originally Posted by lftenjamin

**** Obama

I so knew this was an SD-calibre thread.

Originally Posted by Sebastian

I so knew this was an SD-calibre thread.

Originally Posted by Aziel

Capitalism only works if you are on the top.

So not true. Capitalism works for everyone who is willing to go the distance. If you want to be lazy and not earn a buck, that's your problem. We have people that do that in the U.S. all the time. Poor because they don't work for cash. Instead, they are lazy and live off the government.

If we were a colony of ants, perhaps communism could work. But we are not. We are human beings that enjoy variety and the freedom to be able to choose what we want and then work for it.

Also, I think universal health care is a bad idea.

If I am in desperate need to visit the doctor, I don't want to wait a month behind people that are scheduled to see him first for mediocre reasons. The bigger emergency should be the higher priority.

I'm only saying that those who don't know shouldn't talk, but you do know so don't worry.

I know Obama supports "Smart Fencing," which is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.

I'm going to have to give this topic a 2/10. It was plain obvious you wanted to get a response from me, which oddly enough actually failed to make me rage.

Originally Posted by lftenjamin

The more the government helps people, the lazier they get because the government solves all their problems.

Thus stops them from getting off their lazy ass and trying to make a living!

Do you think poor people are poor because they sit on their ass all day? Do you even understand how hard it is to make it in this country when you're born into a poor family?

Do you realize that a dirt-poor migrant worker is out there making bread crumbs for doing tons of manual labor while the richest people are sitting in offices making decisions for a living?

My parents work their asses off all the time and my family made less than $20,000 last year.

Socialism (or atleast some hybrids of socialism and capitalism) has plenty of positives when you're not on top.

Originally Posted by Discussion

I'm going to have to give this topic a 2/10. It was plain obvious you wanted to get a response from me, which oddly enough actually failed to make me rage.

It's only because we love you so much. D:

Do you think poor people are poor because they sit on their ass all day? Do you even understand how hard it is to make it in this country when you're born into a poor family?

Do you realize that a dirt-poor migrant worker is out there making bread crumbs for doing tons of manual labor while the richest people are sitting in offices making decisions for a living?

My parents work their asses off all the time and my family made less than $20,000 last year.

Socialism (or atleast some hybrids of socialism and capitalism) has plenty of positives when you're not on top.

Rhetorical question. Do you think people who are able to make a comfortable living working in an office building do so by doing nothing all day? Do you think that the decisions these individuals make aren't important or carry gravity?

Just beacuse some people are poor doesn't mean the system has failed.

Some people are poor? That's a rather brash understatement, monsieur.

Originally Posted by Discussion

Some people are poor? That's a rather brash understatement, monsieur.

Compared to the USSR? Remind me, what was the poverty rate there during the 30's?

A hell of a lot better off than the rest of the world, who were suffering from the absolutely disastrous market slump which the USSR was virtually unaffected by. It may also be worthy to mention that unemployment was at an all time high, the people had free housing, health care, the best education in the world, amongst other social gains.

Say what you will, but the USSR was better than both the preceding and current regime and stands as a testament to the superiority of socialism. And if you knew how badly things ended up for the russians when the USSR was liquidated you'd be chirping a different tune.

Originally Posted by Discussion

A hell of a lot better off than the rest of the world, who were suffering from the absolutely disastrous market slump which the USSR was virtually unaffected by. It may also be worthy to mention that unemployment was at an all time high, the people had free housing, health care, the best education in the world, amongst other social gains.

Say what you will, but the USSR was better than both the preceding and current regime and stands as a testament to the superiority of socialism. And if you knew how badly things ended up for the russians when the USSR was liquidated you'd be chirping a different tune.

Considering that the number of deaths in the Ukraine from famine ranked in the millions during the winter of '32-'33, I would be inclined to argue otherwise.

Ah, you mean the famines which Stalin himself made moves to end with collectivization? I can not deny it was unfortunate and perhaps one born partly from the stupidity of the leadership, but it was also the fault of the kulaks...which, guess what, nobody points their fingers at!

I still believe the constitution of the USSR was the single most important event in history, and Stalin, for all his imperfections, did some good things. Call me crazy, but I see progress in social programs that the west, with all its wealth, has yet to even attain.

Originally Posted by Discussion

Ah, you mean the famines which Stalin himself made moves to end with collectivization? I can not deny it was unfortunate and perhaps one born partly from the stupidity of the leadership, but it was also the fault of the kulaks...which, guess what, nobody points their fingers at!

So the Holomodor, as a result of the policies implimented by the Soviet Union, is entirely to blame on a class of marginally wealthy land owners who hired farm hands to manage land that would, under one hand be impossible to farm? Why bother liberating the working class when you can just starve them all to death?

Oh, Discussion. You bring me joy and lulz.

You do know that the kulaks were fighting against the USSR, burning and hiding their crops which caused foot shortages, right? The kulaks were hated and reviled for years and Lenin granted concessions to them which ended up badly for Stalin as they had far too much leverage. I also wouldn't call the kulaks working class as they directly exploited the peasants, and when Stalin decided to collectivize they fought back and their actions caused a famine which Stalin then had to end.

But you're right, most of the land probably was in bad shape, and Russia had always been wracked by famines for centuries, and they intensified under Czar Nicholas. Do you suppose he abdicated his throne and shot at innocent workers because he wanted to? No, it was because the people were hungry and he too made some rather authoritarian measures, which for some god awful reason the history of goes ignored.

It's ridiculously easy to throw out generalized and tired bourgeois statements like that, Unsung Hero, but until you can provide me with reasons why Stalin's leadership was terrible(and there are many so I hope you can pick one), why his actions were detrimental to socialism(which there are many), and why you can give blanket criticisms to condemn a nation of peasants which was transformed into a superpower in decades without understanding the material or historical context behind them, I'm going to have to let you go.

As I said before, the USSR did demonstrate the practicability and superiority of socialism for the very first time, and it was met with fear. Decades after the deaths of both Stalin and Lenin, and they are still smeared by the words of bourgeois historians and liberals who use a priori moral reasoning to insult what they did, as if that carries any weight in a debate. Lenin was a true communist and a truly great man and for that I respect him, and Stalin, while sometimes coming off as a conservative and stupid buffoon(never managing to reach his potential), he still managed to prove once and for all that socialism is the best, and for that I respect him.

Take your time to drag their names in the mud, it shows how intimidating the idea of the workers taking charge is to your middle class self.

Post Script: And just for fun, perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining to me why all the social and economic gains of the USSR, which really was little more but a nation of peasants, were extremely progressive, while the civilized and significantly richer west had nothing such like it?

Originally Posted by Aziel Satori

I know, if US had a universal healthcare system it would suck a great deal less.

I just don't like people bashing socialist ideas and thinking capitalism is the best thing ever.

The only reason they do is because they simply don't know better, it's highly doubtful any one of us here will benefit in any way from capitalism. In fact, many will suffer because of the highly capitalistic methods of the United States as it is.

Those who don't live in the US already live in countries that have socialistic programs in place, and therefore do not live in a completely capitalistic society and basically know nothing of what they speak. Luckily, they haven't infected this topic yet.

Capitalism on it's own sucks far worse than socialism, that is all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Awkin

If the entire world were socialist: Everyone would be well fed, clothed, watered, have equal rights to education and their freedom.

If the entire world were capitalist: It would jsut give more excuse for those at the top to trample on those on the bottom, further accellerating their selfish self-promoting compulsion completely lacking a sense of empathy, possibly raising the standing figure of 40% of the world's population being massievly exploited as it stands (80% to some greater degree) -- speeding the Earth along the path to economic, social and vital disaster.

Based on principle alone, socialism seems the more attractive offer.

Originally Posted by Aziel Satori

Those who complain about something they have never and perhaps will never experience, should not be able to complain about how much things suck now either.

Capitalism only works if you are on the top.

It simply doesn't work for the poor. Capitalism is why we have no middle class anymore.
It will only become more black and white as time marches on, unless there is drastic economic change.

Capitalism and socialism only work when they are used in concert. Society needs both socialist and capitalist aspects to ever reach a truly satisfactory result.

I think that the capitalism vs. communism thread answers all your stances, though I could have added more (I didn't want to revive it for annoyance).

I don't see why people have such a problem with Socialist ideas. It's obvious that a purely Capitalist or purely Socialist government would suck. But, having a good mixture of both seems to work. Look at countries like, France, Canada, and Sweden. A mixed Socialist and Capitalist economy/government works.

Originally Posted by WALL•E

I know Obama supports "Smart Fencing," which is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.

Explain what "Smart Fencing" is.
Because as far as I know, smart fencing is adding additional personnel and technology to the border, and creating fences where they are most needed.

Originally Posted by lftenjamin

**** Obama

You want to destroy one of our only hopes to fix this country? Why?