Where does it all go?

I cant sleep and while laying in my bed, staring at the ceiling i wondered, when u delete stuff on the computer, where does it go? After u send it to the recycle bin on the desktop and empty the bin it just disappears. Gone if no copies are left, technically isnt that like it never existed? Like if u die people believe in different afterlifes but for data its like it never was even there or brought into being at all. But u say "yeah it was there i just saw it and used it before", oh yeah prove it. No proof. So yeah deleted files were there but werent really there? Never solid just info or some program? Man the more i try to think about it the more confused i get.

I dont know it was just a simple question and then as i thought it got kinda deep and complicated. What thoughts do u guys/girls have?

Originally Posted by CJB

I cant sleep and while laying in my bed, staring at the ceiling i wondered, when u delete stuff on the computer, where does it go? After u send it to the recycle bin on the desktop and empty the bin it just disappears. Gone if no copies are left, technically isnt that like it never existed? Like if u die people believe in different afterlifes but for data its like it never was even there or brought into being at all. But u say "yeah it was there i just saw it and used it before", oh yeah prove it. No proof. So yeah deleted files were there but werent really there? Never solid just info or some program? Man the more i try to think about it the more confused i get.

I dont know it was just a simple question and then as i thought it got kinda deep and complicated. What thoughts do u guys/girls have?

So, out of all life's mysteries and perplexing universal questions; the state of computer data is what keeps you up at night?

. . .

Well, let's answer that simple question, shall we?

Conventional means of deleting data (emptying the Recycle Bin, Shift+Delete keys, etc.) on your hard drive doesn't exactly delete the data on a hard drive. It merely only places the file and it's respective directory(ies) and simply places it in another sector of the hard drive where the computer sees it as "reusable." That's in fact precisely what the Recycle Bin does. It places all the deleted files in a special directory where it can easily be recovered. That's how back-up recovery programs are able to retrieve deleted data; because they can trace and locate where the hard drive has put the deleted file(s). By these common conventional means of deleting data, the data can still actually be retraced and recovered by using the files pointers. Even reformatting your hard drive won't work. A computer specialist (or even certain programs) could very easily recover data from a reformatted hard drive.

So, how does one go about to actually delete the data on a hard drive? Eventually, if you use the hard drive long enough, it goes to the unused -- but reusable -- sectors of the hard drive and has to inevitably write over that data. However, this shouldn't exactly put anyone to ease, as nowadays hard drives are very large. As such, it might take a while before data is overwritten.

A one surefire way of virtually completely deleting/wiping your hard drive is a process called "disk wiping". When a utility or program commences the process of disk wiping, it merely overwrites data onto the hard drive several times until it's near impossible to recover data from the hard drive. Depending on how sure you want the information on the hard drive to be absolutely never be covered (it could be extremely confidential, who knows?), the process could take an hour or so, or it could take days. It all depends.

As for how data is exactly stored onto the hard drive, well. That's an entirely different ball-park. I'd advise to look up "electro-magnetics" (this is the technology the hard drive uses) if you that interested. Or simply just google "how a hard drive works" for a more precise explanation.

Well, now you can rest easy I suppose xD.

This isn't what kept me up. I already had trouble sleeping before I thought this, it'd be sad if his kept me frm sleeping

I don't mean that stuff, I mean what form is it after its gone? Like if something dies its still a solid or if u burn something it doesnt just disappear, it changes to ash. I know data is dfferent but if its totally gone from the hard drive. Where is it? What is it? I just don't get how it can disappear to nothing is all, so that it seems like it never was really there.

You've confused me.

:XD

Dark Link pretty much answered your question about the files. I mean, the information in your computer is fundamentally just a series of 1's and 0's that are stored in physical space. When you've written over that data, it's gone. The pattern that was there isn't there anymore, so the data's gone.

It sounds like you're asking, what is information or what is knowledge? We would need some philosophers over here to explain that.

i dont know its hard to describe

:|


Let's say you built a boat using Legos. The boat exists; the abstract concept of "boat" is manifest in the physical world. Now, you disassemble the "boat" so that it's just Lego pieces. The boat doesn't exist anymore, right? Okay. When you delete a file and the locations in your computer memory are written over, it's like you've just built a car from those same Lego pieces that the boat had been made of.

The analogy is not so good -- but your question is ambiguous.

Jehanne's got it. The data on a computer isn't a physical...thing. The data is a sequence of 'ones and zeros' (Only with magnets, not actual numbers.) When you erase data you get rid of all the ones, leaving nothing but zeros. When you overwrite data you move the ones and zeros around.

I'm not sure what you think data is, but it isn't a thing. Data is an abstract concept, represented in an abstract way that we (or computers, or what-have-you) can understand.

The file goes away. period.

Before making more threads, put some thought into them and learn type them correctly. You'll earn much more respect, and people won't log off before finishing the first sentence.

Originally Posted by CJB

This isn't what kept me up. I already had trouble sleeping before I thought this, it'd be sad if his kept me frm sleeping

Humans have a natural thirst for knowledge. If I sometimes forget the lyrics to a song, I absolutely have to look them up. Otherwise, I'd go crazy from not knowing. Same thing with the name of a movie or person (namely, celebrity).

Anyways. . .

I don't mean that stuff, I mean what form is it after its gone? Like if something dies its still a solid or if u burn something it doesnt just disappear, it changes to ash. I know data is dfferent but if its totally gone from the hard drive. Where is it? What is it? I just don't get how it can disappear to nothing is all, so that it seems like it never was really there.

I'll try to use an analogy:

For example, when you erase something from a piece of paper or backspace something on a computer. What happened to those words you just erased? They were there just one minute ago, weren't they? You've removed it. It's no longer there. It's just an experiential memory now. Plain and simple. Not everything materializes into something else. Things do in fact completely disappear in this world. How do you know it was there in the first place? Because it has become a memory. You saw it, you experienced it.

About "what is it." Well, as I explained before, hard drives uses magnetics to store data. I don't know much about the specifics of the technology of magnetized data storage that hard drives use; as I'm not a specialist in that field. You'll have to look that one up.

EDIT: Never mind. Jehanne and GDwarf explained it pretty clearly (I'm so bad with analogies =P). And yeah, as Jehanne stated, it seems your leaning towards a more philosophical approach to this question. . .

Solid state is the way to go. <------- in response to statement about magnetics

:XD

Um. So, yeah. What's the question again?

Originally Posted by Jehanne

Solid state is the way to go. <------- in response to statement about magnetics

Heh, well, the whole no-moving-parts thing means that fewer things break, which is a plus.

Now just to do something about those pesky access times...



Now, just to confuse the issue, it is, in fact, impossible to destroy something. It cannot be done. You can simply change it's form.

However, data, not being an actual thing, can be destroyed. What this means is that you alter the thing that stores that data so that it no longer says anything. Or, as my dad says: The data on a computer is a relationship between a bunch of magnets, when you delete a file you just change that relationship.

I'm going to dress in straight black, buy a beret, go to one of those smoky poetry clubs, and recite CJB's posts. Anyway, about them files. I'm not an expert on the subject, but Wikipedia is...to an extent. Regardless, you should find whatever you're looking for there.

Originally Posted by Noob Saibot

The file goes away. period.

Before making more threads, put some thought into them and learn type them correctly. You'll earn much more respect, and people won't log off before finishing the first sentence.

Why don't you take your own advice and log off before posting because what you posted is really not helpful to the discussion. Thank you very much.


And GDwarf isnt that the law of conservation of matter or something? o_o Never expected to see that on a Zelda forum.

Ayup, conservation of matter. Though, since matter is a form of energy it's actually the conservation of energy. Which means that you can turn matter into energy (and, actually, vice-versa), but you cannot get rid of matter or energy.

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

I'm going to dress in straight black, buy a beret, go to one of those smoky poetry clubs, and recite CJB's posts.

what the hell is that supposed to mean?

Originally Posted by Noob Saibot

The file goes away. period.

Before making more threads, put some thought into them and learn type them correctly. You'll earn much more respect, and people won't log off before finishing the first sentence.

yeah I just wont post a question if you give me crap for it. It was just a random type of question. and I really dont think your someone i want respect from