My Ghost Hunting Expedition on Halloween...

with energy i meant electricity. our body has electricity in it. energy i not created nor destroyed just transformed, that doesn't mean we remain as volts flying arround scaring people that doesn't make any sense and if it does. then prove it.

Originally Posted by Rayvyn

Okay, senior spellsby. When we die, where does our energy go? does it just disappear into the abyss we call death? No, energy must go somewhere. This has been talked about throughout the world of science.

So, according to your logic, there are ghost animals and humans wandering the Earth that have been killed since life began in the sea? If you are religious, then you'd believe it goes to heaven or hell.

You still don't have hard proof of ghosts or spirits existing, just what you believe.

You have no proof they do not exist, so henceforth, the reason for this debate is nullified.

Originally Posted by Rayvyn

You have no proof they do not exist, so henceforth, the reason for this debate is nullified.

Not at all. The conservation of mass-energy does not allow them to exist, and even if it did you'd still have to prove their existence. Otherwise you could argue that everything that can't be disproven must be true, which is a ludicrous claim. After all, you can't disprove that you're a 200 foot tall purple elephant, so it must be true.

yes there is no solid rock proof that they don't exist, but the proof that makes peope think they exist are somewhat without much logic sense. you belive that ghost's exist simply because you believe they do, without having any real reason.

Originally Posted by Rayvyn

You have no proof they do not exist, so henceforth, the reason for this debate is nullified.

Well, you have none that they do exist. If theres no proof for something, why should I believe it? If you were to find proof, not a bunch of people putting together a video, I'd believe you. I'd actually be astonished if any good proof is out there. GD has given you some facts and thought out posts, care to find facts to support your argument? Anything I'd say would pretty much be a repeat of GDwarf, since we are agreeing on this.

Not at all. The conservation of mass-energy does not allow them to exist, and even if it did you'd still have to prove their existence. Otherwise you could argue that everything that can't be disproven must be true, which is a ludicrous claim. After all, you can't disprove that you're a 200 foot tall purple elephant, so it must be true.

What I was thinking. not good with putting words together.

Oh jeez.

Originally Posted by Kazuhirou

and that's when I decided to turn around and take a look myself. We saw some bipedal figure just dash to the left from behind a tree into a huge group of bushes. I know it wasn't me seeing things, because Rayvyn then said, "Holy hell, did you see that?" I saw it, and that was pretty freaky.

Maybe it was the guy who smashed your windshield...

In all seriousness, though, if that's your reason for believing in ghosts, then your standards are way too low. The fact that you saw a figure run doesn't demonstrate anything. If you saw that figure fly or disappear while you see him, then maybe that would be significant. You're jumping to conclusions way too quickly.

Originally Posted by Kazuhirou

My friend Rayvyn took this pic with his own camera soon after one of the video cameras died.

Here is a photo I took in Ghana. It's a guy dancing, doing some crazy moves. Are they orbs? Or is the light reflecting of the dust particles? I can tell you the answer to that one.

You've given us absolutely no reason to assume that's an orb. Why do you think that's an orb?

Honestly, I think Morgan took this pic on accident, but it's a good thing, I guess.



My friend Weston's shoulder. We were out in a dark graveyard in the middle of the night. (11PM-2AM, I think) And only light we had were the camera flash and the headlight that Rayvyn had. Morgan took this pic, as well.

A camera flash is more than capable of creating such an effect.

But let me ask you - how is this possible? I'm not talking about the existence of the ghosts themselves, I'm asking how the camera could pick it up, and your eyes can't. Think about it...a camera is just a photon receptor. It picks up light and only light through its lense. The eye isn't very different - it picks up photons being emitted by the same objects. But somehow these photons are missing our eyes, and heading straight for the camera lense. Why does this occur, and how does it occur? It violates theories that are so accurate that, as Richard Feynman said, "If you were to measure the distance from Los Angeles to New York to this accuracy, it would be exact to the thickness of a human hair." What you're proposing is that this theory (Quantum electrodynamics) is entirely wrong. Yet this theory has been verified over and over again.

Don't you think it's more plausible that this is actually a flaw in the photography? We witness these flaws occuring all the time. I gave you one example with my African dancer. It is easy to demonstrate how all of these occur, even without a flash.

Rayvyn, he also has some EVPs...Not from that night, but some older ones. It's very strange to hear them for the first time.
He has one where he is in his own backyard, which is practically right by the forest, and he asks out in an attempt to get a response...."Are there any Nature Spirits?" And literally the Split second after he says "Spirts" you can hear a muffled "No."...But this spirit seems like a liar? : /

Once again, think about this for a second. First, why would a ghost communicate through electromagnetic waves? Second, the exact same effects are produced by interference or cross modulation. Why do you attribute supernatural causes to everyday occurences?

One thing I'd suggest is that when you listen to EVPs, you should all listen to them separately, and see what each of you thinks the ghost is saying. Often, people seem to listen to a recording, and are told to listen for something very specific. As humans, when we listen for something, we will hear it. Instead of telling someone what they're supposed to hear, ask them what they hear first. Maybe you already do this, maybe you don't. It's just a suggestion.

Originally Posted by KUr3N41

I just love how some people think they're experts on everything. ::coughGDwarfcough::

You can disagree with someone without being an expert. You're making an ad hominem attack. Respect your mods.

Listen, bucko. Skeptics like you are what give paranormal investigation teams a bad name. Second.

I wonder why...

You can plainly see the orb is in motion. Use your eyes.
Picture 2 Is pre-peak Ectoplasm. You said cameras react to light. What do cameras have on them? Flash. Ectoplasm is mysterious. No one knows what it is but there are theories. All theories can be proven false but not from skeptics with no background in the field or personal experiences. That third picture, yeah. THat's my shoulder. And yes. I felt something very cold cutting through my leather jacket. Skeptical people only believe their assumptions until they go on a hunt.

Are you going to back up your assertion that it is an orb? What does a camera flash have to do with ectoplasm being mysterious?

You don't need to be an expert to know about this stuff. I've talked to professional photographers about orbs, I've talked to professional sound technicians about EVP, and they can all explain them very easily with a bit of rational though.

As for skeptics going on a hunt, can I refer you to this thread? I don't know if I'd call it a ghost hunt, but it was an abandoned church that caught fire (the organist burned it down), and two firemen died putting it out. You can check all the photos. There's nothing special.

Also. On EVPs. We don't use Analog recorders. No tape here. We use all digital. Any background noise is filtered out during enhancement of the recording.

Actually, as any sound technician will tell you, a digital recorder that filters out noise will give you much less reliable results. Especially if it is a voice recorder. That's because of the compression method used by most of these - many recorders will store sound assuming its a voice (since they were made to store voice clips). Since I'm no professional (though I'm setting up a home recording studio, and I use equipment like this all the time), I can't give you too many details. All I remember from when I actually researched this stuff was that the sound is stored in very short sequences meant to mimic syllables. If you record inhuman noises, the recorder will often add a human tone to it.

It is not surprising that people prefer these digital recorders for EVPs, as they make inhuman sounds sound human. This ends up giving people the illusion that they are really more "accurate," which they certainly are not. If you want to get good quality, you will need a good mic and a lossless storage format.

Further more I have seen ghosts with my own two eyes. As has Kaz, Morgan and Rayvyn. Our lead guy, Joey, has seen more than his fair share of ghosts. Until you see it for yourself you have no place in throwing out a "oh its just dust" assumption. Thank you.

Anecdotes. I have seen proof that ghosts don't exist. Does that sound silly? To you, it probably does, but it's just as valid as your claim.


[Edit - I just deleted a paragraph due to misinterpretation]

Wow...

I personally believe in ghosts, yes. Do I have proof? Nope. But who the hell cares what I say?

Both sides of this "debate" seem extremely stubborn. Each side clearly is going to stick into what they supposedly "believe in" or "don't believe in", and NOTHING is going to change either. On both sides, the same things seem to be said over and over, and it's obviously not going to change the other's opinion. I do agree that debates are supposed to dwell deep into detail for each respective person...And both sides have ~~obviously~~ managed that...But I, the newbie that I am, personally don't see a reason for this specific thread to continue on. Am I going to stop it? I seriously doubt it.

So all in all...Do I believe in ghosts? Yes, I do. But I'm not going to try and change someone's opinion on their own beliefs.

Why oh why do I try though? I should have known that I would be getting into these sorts of things when I started visiting forums and such...but oh well. : P

Originally Posted by TorkoalJR

Wow...

I personally believe in ghosts, yes. Do I have proof? Nope. But who the hell cares what I say?

Both sides of this "debate" seem extremely stubborn. Each side clearly is going to stick into what they supposedly "believe in" or "don't believe in", and NOTHING is going to change either. On both sides, the same things seem to be said over and over, and it's obviously not going to change the other's opinion. I do agree that debates are supposed to dwell deep into detail for each respective person...And both sides have ~~obviously~~ managed that...But I, the newbie that I am, personally don't see a reason for this specific thread to continue on. Am I going to stop it? I seriously doubt it.

I don't think that either side entered this debate thinking that they'd convince the other, that's never the point of a debate. Rather, I, at least, am debating so that people who were neutral (or at least close to centre) on the issue can see both sides.