My friend is trapped...

It's an extremely long story, but the short of it is, a friend of mine I met several years ago got me involved in a self-actualisation seminar called 'the landmark forum,' and for the about the last 18 months since I quit, it feels like he keeps trying to get me back in.

This weekend he just did a course, and he called me about 15 minutes ago, spouting 'forum language' which I barely understood (and I've DONE some of the courses) talking about how he wants to build his business surrounded by forum graduates so he can have a 'real good time at work.' Basically, this guy is in, and he's in deep.

He says he's happy, but he also said he got very little sleep, and his language carries a terribly saddening "I'm having a terrible time but I'm putting on a brave face so everyone thinks I'm having fun" tone.

Last week, he had invited me to go to his 'graduation' night (which was tonight), but since then I came down with a bad bacterial infection and had to cancel. On the phone he said he wanted to make sure I was 'complete' with not coming, and insinuated that maybe my sudden illness was more then just a coincidence and was something that I 'pulled in' to avoid going tonight. I'm familiar with the guilt tactics and flawed logic they use to persuade, I've used them myself when I was in, but I'm feeling bad for a different reason.

See this guy has helped me a lot, both in business and with social connections. He's also experienced the loss of his father and brother within 6 months. And a friend of his recently told me he referred to me as his 'best friend.' And I love the guy. I feel like I may have unwittingly become a major support in this guy's life, it's something I treasure and would hate to lose.

But at other times I feel like maybe I'm not so important to him, and that if I came out and told him what I really thought (that landmark was a cult) that he would just casually toss me aside as he has done with other 'negative friends.' I've just been going along with his forum talk it all this time, nodding and smiling so to speak, and I'm fine with that I'm compromising myself with him. I'd gladly do that to make him happy and to keep being his friend. And it's obviously working (even with minimal effort to hide my disdain) the other night he told me that he can have a level of conversation with me that he can't have with people who haven't done landmark. I'm not sure if I'm proud of that distinction...

It's so strange, I guess you could take from this that I'm not sure that I'm really his friend or not, and I'm too scared to test it just in case it's lost. It would be devastating to both of us, because we work closely together too, and have a great working relationship.

It's just that, hearing him on the phone, sounding so much like I did once, and remembering how depressed I was and comparing that to the freedom of thought I have now, I'm worried. I feel like I want to step in and shake him out of it, but it's so close to his heart, it'd be like attacking a person's religion. He's trapped in a world where your thoughts control your reality, and everything that happens to you, good or bad is completely accountable to your thought patterns. I wish I could convey just how destructive this mode of thinking can be to your perspective on life. At first it's empowering, but then when things don't go your way (as they inevitably don't sometimes) it's always on you and can send you into a downward spiral.

Anyway that's all, I just wanted to share how I'm feeling right now with some people who are completely removed from the topic, and might be able to give a fresh point of view.

Hmmm...first off, I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. It's obvious that you're having a tough time with this. =/

Now, I want to make perfectly clear that I'm no expert when it comes to things like these, so I'm just going to give you my opinion on what you should do about it.

You said that you were in your friend's position at some point, right? Well, have you tried talking to him about how it was like for you when you did it? About how you were falling into a depression? No matter what he believes is right at the moment, he'll listen to what you have to say if you two really are best friends. Who knows? He might even take some things to consideration...

Sometimes talking is the best way to help and/or solve problems, but not always, so this approach may not necessarily be the right one.

I hope things work out for you and your friend.

These things are scary. I suggest you do some reading.

The Rick Ross institute is basically a database of cults or cult-like activities. Of course, just because it's in the database doesn't really mean it's a cult. Nevertheless, you can dig up a lot of dirt on them here. It has a bunch of news reports, records of Landmark's numerous litigations, personal accounts, and special reports. Interestingly enough, Landmark Education actually tried to sue Rick Ross because of this. I strongly recommend this link.

Here is the story of a guy who went missing shortly after attending their seminar. This is the blog of a lady at another forum (James Randi Educational Fund forum), who runs a foundation for missing children.

Skepdic has a good entry on it too. This is a skepticism encyclopedia, which has pretty reliable information and some links at the bottom.

I think a very imporant thing to read is this. This is actually part of the first site, but I think it deserves special attention. These are abstracts from psychology journals that show psychiatric disorders developing from the seminar.

Lastly, there's some good stuff here too. This is a cult news blog, with lots of articles. The first one looks interesting: "Former Landmark leader wanted for murder surrenders to FBI."


Based on just the few things I read, I think you'd be doing a big disservice by not trying to get him out of this. This is very dangerous stuff, and I hope you put the effort into researching it and sharing your research with your friend. Someday he'll thank you.

Thanks lady luck, please, don't feel like you need to ask permission, I really need a fresh point of view right now.

My friend knew I was going through a depressing time, I told him so. Initially when I escaped, I told him what I really thought about his group and he wasn't happy. He even threatened to cut ties with me. Since that time I've tried to have various conversations with him when I strike up the nerve, but it always comes back to me and why I wasn't fit to deal with whatever the forum 'confronted me with.' It's one of the insidious things about this group, always turning it back on you, it's your fault.

Thanks for the links MH, I'm already well researched in how the cult operates, both from reading rick ross and from my experience inside, you're right it really is a dangerous place. Never before have I experienced such a weird group dynamic, and I hope I never do again.

During one of my conversations with him I asked him if he had read the articles on Rick Ross. He replied with "hmm yes some of them, but you don't want to read too many negative stories like that, these people will drag you down."

I'm sure you're familiar with the term "entheta" and how it relates to scientology right? Well it's a bit like that. They hear anything they perceive to be disparaging towards the group they're with and the just kind of filter it out with labels like "that's your racket."

So as much as I want to get my friend out of there, by the nature of our relationship, I don't think it would survive that truth, and I don't think it would do him any good anyway, just hit that wall and bounce off.

He does however think Scientology is corrupted, he even rescued a young boy from their org in LA once. I've been using that and trying to draw connections between the two groups. I even told him about how EST was founded by a scientologist. He replied with "Well you know what that means don't you, it means he took all the good concepts out of Scientology and got rid of all the bad stuff."

In short it's a delicate situation. I'm in his confidence, and I don't want to spoil that by appearing to be 'negative.' That's not going to help him at all.

This sounds like a really sticky situation. I'm really sorry to hear about your friend, Thorn. I really, really hope things work out.

I'm not much when it comes to advice, but I feel that, for the time being, you should definitely keep lending him an ear to listen to his problems. It sounds as though you two talk alot, and that he has a lot on his plate at the moment, so maybe letting him confide in you is the best thing to do, 'cause it sounds like he trust's you (please correct me if I'm wrong *nods*)

Maybe, though, I'll ask my sister what she think's of the situation, and maybe she can give you some advice ^_^ (I always go to her if I have a problem).

As I said earlier, I hope that yor stuffses get sorted.