Individuality

Everyone is unique in their own way.

Just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by MorbidDelight

But if you actually believe in what you're doing without regards to the standard itself, then it's not conformism. Conformism is complying in order to fit in. For example, lets say that 70% of the world love the color blue. If I genuinely love the color blue, am I being a conformist? I'm certainly not unique in that aspect, but I'm not conforming to anything.

Your actions would be conformist but your intentions might not be. If I wore the same clothes as everyone else (assuming everyone else were wearing the same clothes), but I truly believed that I'm being unique by wearing the same clothes as everyone else, would my actions not be conformist even though my line of thinking says otherwise?

Originally Posted by Xeno

Your actions would be conformist but your intentions might not be. If I wore the same clothes as everyone else (assuming everyone else were wearing the same clothes), but I truly believed that I'm being unique by wearing the same clothes as everyone else, would my actions not be conformist even though my line of thinking says otherwise?

You're assuming that I would be thinking I was unique (which falls under our disagreement of whether uniqueness and being an individual are synonymous concepts) by liking the color blue which would fall under me having delusions of grandeur/the need to distinguish myself from others more than being a conformist. I would think that pretending your favorite color was something less known would be more conformist than simply liking blue without caring whether it was popular or not.

As for the clothes scenario, no, they would not be conformist; they would just be stupid. If you wore the same clothes as everyone else to fit in, then yes, you would be a conformist. If you bought clothes you liked that happened to match up with that of the general population, then no, you wouldn't be being a conformist.

It's important for me to feel individual. To feel like someone. To feel like someone that I can define as me. And to accept that image and the fact that the image is always changing. And I feel like I accomplish said individuality by just expressing myself. Saying things that I feel. Doing things I feel like.
I'm not sure I really understand why this is so important to me, perhaps because during my snazzy teenager years, I had very difficult times struggling with entitling myself just about anything -- I never felt like I truly deserved anything. And I never really thought about who I was. Thinking about myself these days, the individual that I have become, helps me raise my self-confidence. And the confidence itself works as a motivator, it makes me want to continue doing stuff. Doing stuff that makes me feel happy.

And yes, I feel that a lot of people are trying too hard to feel unique. I used to be like that myself, and it was extremely exhausting.
As a matter of fact, situations like that can still happen where I think to myself "wtf am I doing I thought I was over this" and become a little sad but then happy again when I manage to roll out of it. When I stop holding in parts of myself and stop conforming.
You should all know by now that only Nutella can be unique, with it's extremely delicious nutty flavor.

This subject makes me think of a certain clip by the way.

Originally Posted by MorbidDelight

You're assuming that I would be thinking I was unique (which falls under our disagreement of whether uniqueness and being an individual are synonymous concepts) by liking the color blue which would fall under me having delusions of grandeur/the need to distinguish myself from others more than being a conformist. I would think that pretending your favorite color was something less known would be more conformist than simply liking blue without caring whether it was popular or not.

As for the clothes scenario, no, they would not be conformist; they would just be stupid. If you wore the same clothes as everyone else to fit in, then yes, you would be a conformist. If you bought clothes you liked that happened to match up with that of the general population, then no, you wouldn't be being a conformist.

Then your idea of conformism is moot. If all it takes for someone to be a non-conformist is to not care what others think or believe that they are not conforming, then by your definition no one is a conformist except those that specifically believe themselves to be a conformist.

Originally Posted by Xeno

no one is a conformist except those that specifically believe themselves to be a conformist.

Makes you think... doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Xeno

Then your idea of conformism is moot. If all it takes for someone to be a non-conformist is to not care what others think or believe that they are not conforming, then by your definition no one is a conformist except those that specifically believe themselves to be a conformist.

No, it's really not moot. Nonconformism is having the courage to be yourself out in the open and show your true self to others without fear or care of ridicule. Many people are conformists, whether they'd care to admit it or not. They fear ridicule, so they're silent about their views/thoughts/ideas and conform because it's easier than showing their true self(in most cases).

Just be who you want to be don't sacrifice activities you like just to be unique. I know people who hate popular stuff for the sake of hating it. I hate stuff because i really do hate it and if i like something that is popular i don't change my views just to be different.

I tend to hate popular stuff because it is always in my face. Unless of course I happen to like whatever popular thing it happens to be. If I think it's worthwhile, I won't do the "I used to love that, but now that everyone loves it, I hate it" thing. But that's just me.

I admit that I hate it when something i have liked for years becomes popular and everyone says they love it but they really know nothing about it. I still like the thing though but i try to block out all the annoying people talking about it and eventually it becomes unpopular and they move onto something else.

Originally Posted by MorbidDelight

No, it's really not moot. Nonconformism is having the courage to be yourself out in the open and show your true self to others without fear or care of ridicule. Many people are conformists, whether they'd care to admit it or not. They fear ridicule, so they're silent about their views/thoughts/ideas and conform because it's easier than showing their true self(in most cases).

This mindset makes the assumption that a "true self" exists and is mentally recognizable or presentable.

which is sort of silly.

Originally Posted by Alex

This mindset makes the assumption that a "true self" exists and is mentally recognizable or presentable.

which is sort of silly.

I only meant that nonconformists don't conform to the standards of society/that they express their thoughts and behavior openly, not that there's an actual 'true' self.

Originally Posted by Interestingdrug

I'm currently watching punk Britannia which seems fitting.

Individuality is difficult because I don't think that people want to be individuals. It feels empowering to say you're your own person, but really we're mostly more comfortable being part of something. Community provides security. With modern consumerism and a psychological dependence on materialism which has emerged, it is so much easier to buy your 'vintage NME' shirt and become alternative. Topman will make you cool and bluebanana (or wherever they shop) will make you scene.

It's kind of a postmodern thing. It's easier to construct your own identity, but this leads to an insecure type of homogeny where people are drawn together because of their fear. In that way I think individuality is a mask which people wear nowadays - it's easier but not used in the empowering way you'd think of. The increased capacity we have to be individuals is largely wasted by our need to conform to cultures.

With the way that society and the social actor works I sometimes wonder if 'individuality' is a complete myth.

Eh, I think it's fairer to say that people want to fit in with "their" group, but they also want their group to be very distinct from all others.

This means that people want individuality...on a group scale. Which is exceedingly odd, really.

What's more, everyone wants to stand out at least a little, and that makes sense. The person who's even slightly more memorable than others is much more likely to attract a mate. That said, someone who's too different will suffer for it.

So I suspect our brains are engaged in a war on two scales to both have ourselves stand out while still fitting in.

Originally Posted by Alex

Individuality is an illusion that the mind creates to satisfy the ego. Much like most of existence.

Every aspect of yourself makes you who you are: Your DNA, scars, diseases, memories, and experiences. As such, even if you make a perfect copy of a person the copy will become unique the moment it is made, as its experiences will have to be different from the original's.

What's more: How do you explain people who have done things that others couldn't replicate for decades, if not longer? They could do it, no one else around them could, so how could they not be an individual?

If, then, some people are individuals then obviously individuality is at least partially not an illusion. Given my first point that would seem to imply that it is, in fact, real.

Originally Posted by Alex

This mindset makes the assumption that a "true self" exists and is mentally recognizable or presentable.

which is sort of silly.

This I agree on, though.

Well, sort-of. Your "true self" is your brain. But that changes literally from instant to instant, and so who you "truly" are also changes that often.

That said, there are limits to how much your brain can change over a given period of time, so there is a base there that can be said to be who you truly are right now. It's a bit fuzzy, as it were, but it's still an outline that can be referenced.

But yeah, no eternal true self that exists somehow separate from your person.

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Xeno

Having the knowledge that you're significantly different than anyone and everyone else will do nothing to benefit you. So you're different, now what? Are you going to base your personality around the fact that you now know that you're different? So you're the same as everybody else, who cares?

Diversity of individuals increases the strength of the species or group.

If everyone is identical then we react to problems in the same way, which means that the right disaster can destroy us all.

It's like that fungus that destroyed almost all of the world's bananas: Since all bananas are clones they all fought the fungus the same way and all failed, leading to total extinction of the most popular type.

I feel a bit weird posting here, cause it seems like everyone has just about covered the question.


I was thinking though, what is individuality? Just the way you act and dress, and the music you listen to? I don't think it's really possible to be unlike everyone else in that way. But if you go deeper, down to what a person feels, their troubles, their life experiences, then were all different. Some people may have some of your problems, and their life may be similar, but it's not exactly like yours. Although we all face obstacles, and we all suffer some kind of discrimination, we all face our own problems everyday. And just because we may share similar problems, it's highly unlikely that th things we face everyday are exactly like another's.
"Your blue's ain't like my blue's, and why would they be?"

Sorry if this seemed a bit nonsense-ikle. My sister just walked in with her friends, and they're being a bit loud. It's a bit hard to concentrate with them in the background.

You know, there was just one more thing I wanted to say on this subject.

I think that it is a good thing that there are few people in the world who are completely unique... or completely different from everyone else. I mean, really. If you were completely unlike anyone around you in virtually every way, how would you relate to anyone? Now this is coming from someone who tends to be different from most people, and even I can say that if there were virtually no ways that even I could relate to anyone, life would be pretty terrible. I think that it is a very good thing that even "more unique people" are not so unique that they simply cannot relate to anyone. So like I said... striving to be different just for the sake of being different is a waste of time. Striving to conform to fit in with those around you might be equaly as wasteful. Just...

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss.

individuality to me is the inescapable manner in which we each do things. to me it never has been and never will be about what you think or what you do. it's about how you think or how you do. why you think and why you do. and everybody hows and whys all different. now of course, embracing that concept and consciously striving to be an individual is an entirely different matter, and something I can truly say I discourage, simply because once you start doing things for the sake of how they appear, you become my least favorite kind of person.

I just am who I am. I don't think about individuality, I don't care about being individual. I just think how I like to. I don't just do things for the sake of being unique, or any of that.

Indeed, there's a difference between trying to be yourself and trying to be different. Being different is actively striving for the opposites. While being yourself is a "whatever" approach. You like and do what you like and do, regardless if what it's what everyone else is doing or not doing.

Originally Posted by John

Every aspect of yourself makes you who you are: Your DNA, scars, diseases, memories, and experiences. As such, even if you make a perfect copy of a person the copy will become unique the moment it is made, as its experiences will have to be different from the original's.

What's more: How do you explain people who have done things that others couldn't replicate for decades, if not longer? They could do it, no one else around them could, so how could they not be an individual?

If, then, some people are individuals then obviously individuality is at least partially not an illusion. Given my first point that would seem to imply that it is, in fact, real.

It would have been more skilful of me to say "the value of individuality is an illusion" or something more along those lines. It's just weird ego stuff. Individuality makes you feel important, that's the whole point of valuing it. Not only do you feel distinguished, but you know that other people look at you and think the same thing. Everyone wants to be different, or to find some way to create an interesting narrative out of themselves.

"I'm this, I'm that, I can do this, I'm blah blah blah."

We are the coalescence of our experience, and "individuality" to me has pride hidden somewhere inside of it. How can you be proud of who you are? It's not your doing. But I may be misinterpreting the whole individuality thing.

or some other semantical thing like that.

Making a conscious effort to be different than other people for the sake of being different from other people seems a little funny and pointless