Well, What Would You Make Legal?

Originally Posted by LightHawk

Zeruda said open palm slap to the face, there is nothing wrong with that. I completely agree with Zeruda on this, people now-a-days are to afraid to do anything when it come to disiciplining there kids.

Man, I had no idea so much scum walked these boards.
Whacking children across the face... Good heavens.

On the subject of piracy, I think the artist has every right to want to make money off of their work.
I don't give a **** how inconvenient it is for you, or how bull**** you think it is-- the artist has a right to do it.

Originally Posted by Lysis

why do people actually seriously consider legalizing copyright infringement? I mean, really? Making music piracy legal would make it difficult to actually sell music and make a profit and if an artist can't sell their music they'll probably stop making music.

Johnathan Coulton says otherwise.

Zeruda said open palm slap to the face, there is nothing wrong with that. I was hardly spanked and paddled as a kid. Why? Well I learnd my lesson after the first few times. I completely agree with Zeruda on this, people now-a-days are to afraid to do anything when it come to disiciplining there kids.

On the subject of physical discipline, I would say I'm an advocate of its use. If a child learns that misbehaving comes with a consequence, chances are they will exhibit better behavior in the future.

http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.HTML

"Gershoff found "strong associations" between corporal punishment and all eleven child behaviors and experiences. Ten of the associations were negative such as with increased child aggression and antisocial behavior. The single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child."

Originally Posted by 8bit

http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.HTML

"Gershoff found "strong associations" between corporal punishment and all eleven child behaviors and experiences. Ten of the associations were negative such as with increased child aggression and antisocial behavior. The single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child."

"In a reply to Gershoff, researchers Diana Baumrind, PhD (Univ. of CA at Berkeley), Robert E. Larzelere, PhD (Nebraska Medical Center), and Philip Cowan, PhD (Univ.of CA at Berkeley), write that because the original studies in Gershoff's meta-analysis included episodes of extreme and excessive physical punishment, her finding is not an evaluation of normative corporal punishment.


"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

"In a reply to Gershoff, researchers Diana Baumrind, PhD (Univ. of CA at Berkeley), Robert E. Larzelere, PhD (Nebraska Medical Center), and Philip Cowan, PhD (Univ.of CA at Berkeley), write that because the original studies in Gershoff's meta-analysis included episodes of extreme and excessive physical punishment, her finding is not an evaluation of normative corporal punishment.


"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."

We're talking about slapping kids in the face here.

You do realize that there's a rather large difference between slapping a kid in the face and spanking them, right?

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

You do realize that there's a rather large difference between slapping a kid in the face and spanking them, right?

Hence my statement, "We're talking about slapping kids in the face here".
I don't advocate either, but what I'm concerned with at the moment is how some people seem to think slapping children in the face is fine and dandy.

What exactly do they define as "normal" and "extreme" corporeal punishment?

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Hence my statement, "We're talking about slapping kids in the face here".
I don't advocate either, but what I'm concerned with at the moment is how some people seem to think slapping children in the face is fine and dandy.

It is something to be concerned about. Slapping a kid in the face is more cruel than anything.

What exactly do they define as "normal" and "extreme" corporeal punishment?

I like to define the former as simple spanking (i.e., slap on the ass, etc.), whereas the latter includes actions such as slapping kids in the face.

That's just me, though.

Originally Posted by Tonchiki

Man, I had no idea so much scum walked these boards.
Whacking children across the face... Good heavens.

And I had know idea there were so many gutless pansies treading around these here parts who are to afraid to lay down the law when the occasion arises. All it is is a slap in the face, its not like you are beating the **** out of them. The kid should eventually learn not to do what they got spanked or slaped for and if they don't then they aren't to bright.

You confuse being gutless with practicing self restraint.

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

"In a reply to Gershoff, researchers Diana Baumrind, PhD (Univ. of CA at Berkeley), Robert E. Larzelere, PhD (Nebraska Medical Center), and Philip Cowan, PhD (Univ.of CA at Berkeley), write that because the original studies in Gershoff's meta-analysis included episodes of extreme and excessive physical punishment, her finding is not an evaluation of normative corporal punishment.


"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."

Because it's correlative.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/353384

I can't believe we're arguing the merits of corporal punishment today, when we've known how harmful it is to child development since Kohlberg's research development of moral reasoning in the 50s.

Originally Posted by LightHawk

And I had know idea there were so many gutless pansies treading around these here parts who are to afraid to lay down the law when the occasion arises. All it is is a slap in the face, its not like you are beating the **** out of them. The kid should eventually learn not to do what they got spanked or slaped for and if they don't then they aren't to bright.

It's not difficult to beat the **** out of a kid. There's nothing gutless about restraining oneself.

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

You confuse being gutless with practicing self restraint.

Slaping/spanking is self restraint believe me, I have seen parents get upset before and you can tell that they just want to hit the kid but they so don't so they just slap/spank the child. Its called disicpline and more people need to practice it, but thats just my opinion and its not changing.

Originally Posted by LightHawk

but thats just my opinion and its not changing.

Do you see my point?

Corporal punishment, on any level, retards development of moral reasoning, not to mention, it can cause many other negative side effects. (increased aggression and anti-social behavior, for example)

Originally Posted by 8bit

Do you see my point?

Corporal punishment, on any level, retards development of moral reasoning, not to mention, it can cause many other negative side effects. (increased aggression and anti-social behavior, for example)

So can tv, videogames, where you live, school life, music, etc. The point is anyyhing can make a kid more agressive its not just punishment. Hell some kids get pissed if you ground them and thats not corporal punishment.

Originally Posted by LightHawk

And I had know idea there were so many gutless pansies treading around these here parts who are to afraid to lay down the law when the occasion arises. All it is is a slap in the face, its not like you are beating the **** out of them. The kid should eventually learn not to do what they got spanked or slaped for and if they don't then they aren't to bright.

"oh it's just a slap in the face it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

"oh it's just a black eye it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

"oh it's just a concussion it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

where exactly do you draw the line between "acceptable" abuse and "beating the **** out of them" abuse?

Originally Posted by Lysis

beating a child across the face is abuse. I can't believe anyone would think otherwise. Disgusting.

Disgusting.

Originally Posted by Lysis

"oh it's just a slap in the face it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

"oh it's just a black eye it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

"oh it's just a concussion it's not going to kill them they'll get over it."

where exactly do you draw the line between "acceptable" abuse and "beating the **** out of them" abuse?

Have you read anything? All I said was that its ok to SLAP/SPANK a child, I never said it was ok to to give them a black eye or a concussion. If you thinks its ok to do that then there is something wrong with you. I still stand behind what I siad.

I asked you a question. Where do you draw the line? What exactly do you define as a "slap"? Smack a kid across the face hard enough and you very well could knock them out.

I mean, should there be some kind of way to quantify this? Like, it's legal to smack your kid at N feet per second? You're only allowed to apply X newtons of force to your child's face?

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

Zeruda, it was legal to spank your kids 20 years ago. :/

and wait, Dumpster diving is illegal?

indeed, in America anyway a felony it is I believe.

Originally Posted by Lysis

I asked you a question. Where do you draw the line? What exactly do you define as a "slap"? Smack a kid across the face hard enough and you very well could knock them out.

Of course not, you just use enough force to get your point across to the child. I know my answer isn't great but its the only thing I can think of, but you it wouldn't surprise me if you end up asking "well what do you consider enough force." My answer will be I don't know, I honestly don't know but I am tired of poeple thinking that just because you slap/spank a child you are automatically the scum of the earth. When I say slap/spank I am not implying that you go out and beat the **** out of your kid just becuase they did something wrong. You would only slap a kid if they where back-talking and spank a kid only when they are misbehaving or would you rather just yell at them causing more yelling and then you send them to there room filled with music, tv, books, etc. This won't teach a kid anything but maybe you take there stuff away well if the kid can't function without the use of modern day convience then they have some more problems other than being grounded. The fact is they get their stuff back eventually and they don't learn a dam thing.

the problem is that "enough to get the point across" is completely subjective. One person might think that a light slap on the wrist is enough, another person might think it takes a black eye. You can't quantify something like that. You can't write a law that says "you are allowed to hit your child this hard in the face, but no harder." The fact of the matter is, smacking a child in the face is abuse. You can't just say "oh but I won't hit them that hard, just hard 'enough' to teach them a lesson." There is no enough. Like 8bit's source mentioned, "the single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child." Sure, hitting them in the face might be good enough to make them do what you say. It will "teach them a lesson," all right.

but it's still abusive and it's wrong.