Why do a lot of people dislike TP so much?

[david401]

I really enjoyed it but I've heard a lot of people say they disliked it, I've even heard someone say Okami is a better Zelda game than TP... O_o

[rayburn]

I liked Tp alot. Oot is better then it but I dont know of any people who dislike it to terribly bad (besides Zelda haters)

[Temple of Time]

I've got a mate who thinks the same thing. We grow up together trough the entire Zelda series but when TP was released he didn't like it at all. I think it's because the story takes a good hour or more to get going. He didn't even give it a chance and he won't even explain properly why he doesn't like it.

I must admit that the beginning does take a while until the game really starts when you turn into wolf Link and escape from that sewer type dungeon..

[Daemonius]

Probably because it's too much like OoT.

[Toodle Pip Tott]

I really don't dislike TP, it's just that it's usually compared to OoT or even in rare cases, to tWW. Both of these games did pretty much everything so much better, that when compared to TP, it seems a little...lacking.

I can't really comment about the "Okami is better than TP" thing, since I have yet to play said game. But is it so hard to believe there could be a better than a Zelda game? Because there is, a lot of games.

[Siper2]

Why? Because it involves expanding one's viewpoints. People are resistant to change, it's our nature. Gamers are rabid fanatics; mess with their silly little worlds, and they'll go into obsessive fits.

TP adds no more particular oddity than any other Zelda game in the franchise. They're all a little quirky, but fantastically fun and involving.

[ℓєяσ¥]

They said it would be the best Zelda game ever... Yeah right...
Enough said...

[Siper2]

I think it is, in many ways. Its size, its depth, its obvious graphical advantage, and its use of so many classical and new Zelda lore elements. Conversely, yes it does carry over a lot of OoT themes, so regarding pure creativity, it loses a notch or two.

However, it obviously intended to follow this story path.

[Twilight Wolf]

TP is nothing but a rehashed OOT. It had almost no innovation, and only added gimmicks like the wolf. Sure, it had good graphics, but I place gameplay over grahics. It was far too easy, and the story was incredibly cheesy.

I was sorely disappointed when I played this game. Definitely NOT the best Zelda ever.

[david401]

Originally Posted by Twilightwolf64

TP is nothing but a rehashed OOT. It had almost no innovation, and only added gimmicks like the wolf. Sure, it had good graphics, but I place gameplay over grahics. It was far too easy, and the story was incredibly cheesy.

I was sorely disappointed when I played this game. Definitely NOT the best Zelda ever.

Are you from nsider2?

[OmegaLifeGod]

I think TP was pretty good I greatly hated being the wolf though and collecting those tears of light or whatever its fine the first time you play the game but that gives it less replay value seeing as it is just a hassle, in Okami's defense though it was an intense game

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Siper2

I think it is, in many ways. Its size, its depth, its obvious graphical advantage, and its use of so many classical and new Zelda lore elements. Conversely, yes it does carry over a lot of OoT themes, so regarding pure creativity, it loses a notch or two.

However, it obviously intended to follow this story path.

Yet it gets rid of things like magic :/
And MM in my mind has far more depth.

It's a good game, but not the best.

[Fënor]

I really don't know who you talked to but I think it was awesome

[Siper2]

No magic in TP? There's a lot of magic, in TP....

No innovation? I thought the whole concept of twilight was pretty stinking cool... nothing in a previous Zelda game was executed that well...

As for the wolf, it was different for sure, and searching for the Tears of Light I think is annoying, but I enjoy it.


Cheesy? All Zelda games are loaded with cheese. Just depends on your taste preference. I thought Majora was really bad in that department... like the big, goofy-looking moon looming overhead...

[langford]

All by it's self it a very good game, but along with the other games, it represents a tired trend. They moved in a more original direction in WW, but newbies complained, so now they backpedaled with TP. If Nintendo is now scared to take risks, we may forever be playing the same game over and over.

[Orici]

Lots of people dont like it?
Noooo...you're mistaking it for "Lots of people are disappointed at it"

It's a very good game, but it's not what many people expected. I still love it.

[Twilight Wolf]

Originally Posted by david401

Are you from nsider2?

Nsider2? What the hell is that?

[Daemonius]

Originally Posted by Siper2

No magic in TP? There's a lot of magic, in TP....

I think Erimgard ment magic as in a magicbar and magical items that drain it.

No innovation? I thought the whole concept of twilight was pretty stinking cool...

Cool? No doubt. Innovative? Hell no, it's just another adaption of ALttP's Dark World.

nothing in a previous Zelda game was executed that well...

I do not consider something to be executed well if it consists of first going trough some Dark World to collect a ****load of collectables, and then going through the normal version of that area immediatly after.

[quote[As for the wolf, it was different for sure, and searching for the Tears of Light I think is annoying, but I enjoy it.[/quote]

The wolf was fun, for about 10 minutes. The alternate forms and their use in MM were better.

Cheesy? All Zelda games are loaded with cheese. Just depends on your taste preference. I thought Majora was really bad in that department... like the big, goofy-looking moon looming overhead...

So you would prefer it if every game was like OoT? Only a little different?

[Casual Matt]

Originally Posted by Daemonius

Probably because it's too much like OoT.

Which is funny because I thought that's what people wanted since The Wind Waker was announced.

[Sirius B]

I wouldn't say I disliked it, but it certainly didn't have the impact of OoT. If there's one criticism that can be leveled against Nintendo, it's that they have a habit of treading the same ground, and TP is an example of this. Much of the races, locales, and even situations seemed lifted from OoT and changed around a bit. Oh, Zora's Domain frozen again? Trouble with the Gorons on Death Mountain again? Etc.

Other criticisms of mine:

-I disliked how characters were introduced and developed. For example, Zelda is introduced early, and then is barely seen or heard from again until the very end, and the same time at which Ganondorf suddenly appears. It felt very sudden and rather contrived, and did not give certain characters a chance to develop at all.

-Too much collecting. Is anyone else sick of the whole "gotta catch 'em all" collecathons many games have become these days? It's not as bad as say, Donkey Kong 64, but I'd wish Nintendo would focus less on collecting various things; it's way too easy for it to become work instead of enjoyment.

[Ganon the King]

I'd like to expand upon everyone else's posts.

One major problem with TP is that it tried to be like OOT in the sense that it was about collecting weapons and finishing collecting side-quests (golden skulltulus, pieces of heart). Now why would you make a next-gen game like that, when easily you could develop the sort of depth MM had in its characters and side-quests? And with a bit of work make it even better than what MM did.

With that said, it's time to focus on the towns. When I first saw Kakariko, I thought "wow, that looks good." It was big enough to have some mini-games and side-quests and character interaction going for it. The only problem with it was it turned out to only have like three houses you could go into and two of them were shops. Um... disappointment? The bomb shop was good, very suited to the location and so was Malo mart. The inn was what upset me. Imagine if the inn had been like MM's inn, with people going in an out at a certain time of the day. No, no need for a weekly or season cyle, just a day cycle which leaves for some good character interaction and exploration. Also, after certain points in the game, Kakariko could have been slowly "re-built." So after Lakebed temple, some houses and shops are fixed and opened up. And towards the end of the game its become a lively village. Sound fair?

Now onto the hub city of the game: Castle Town. When you first go to CT you think, wow, this is bigger than OoT's CT and is almost as big as Clock Town. There seem to be an enormous amount of people and your thinking, "This is so awesome." You walk through a few streets and noticed plenty of shops and houses and of course "Telma's bar." Definitely some good character interaction going on here, more than enough. Sadly, there was near to no character interaction, apart from the randoms that say two sentences over and over again. A real disappointment. Why not add an inn? A shooting gallery? A mini-game with the bomb-lings? MM similar mini-games? A bank? A "goron-wares" shop? Post office? It felt like a good town... actually it was top-notch, it really felt like it was living, but no depth. And if it was supposed to represent a "real" town then at least make it real in the sense that people noticed a massive ****ing diamond around their own castle!!

Another problem with the game, that OoT didn't have. It's something that FFVI also had. Just passed half way through the game the storyline suddenly stops and then right at the very end it picks up again, this is what happens in TP. And the excuse for it in FFVI was "learn more about the characters" and in TP, "exploration and collecting."

The actual development of the character was also a problem. Most would have noticed that Midna had gone from a very well-developing character to suddenly "pure-hearted." On my first play-through I didn't notice this, but I noticed that I didn't appreciate her as much by the end. I was really loving her at the start though, her personality, her jokes, everything.

The game seemed to be slightly difficult at the start, or maybe I was just adjusting to the controls. But noticed how the difficulty stayed exactly the same all the way throughout? Save for the puzzles, thats where this game excelled, I literally got stuck twice somehow on Hyrule Castle. This is fighting difficulty by the way.

Another problem is this game faces is mixed graphics. Some graphics looks flat at times (like Midna) and sometimes things look cel-shaded. Yeah, I was just angry about the mix-up of realistic graphics and cel-shaded graphics. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people could appreciate ALttP's graphics more and TP was supposed to be two-gens better...

The whole pick-up of the Twilight was also bad. The first time with killing the bugs was okay, and then it got sour. The second time felt repetitive, but you didn't really noticed it because you were so excited to clear the darkness. The third time was also bad, at least it had the massive bug at the end. I would have liked to see a pick-up in difficulty and different kinds of "Twilight bugs."

The dungeons were quite good. In fact the first three were superb, not to mention Arbiters grounds and the Temple of Time. I also liked how some things in the game referenced other Zeldas, particularly OoT.

However, I felt character design lacked a certain something. It tried to be realistic in a cartoon-like, realistic way. And lacked the essence of the awesomeness (in character design) that OoT/MM was.

But I'd like to applaud the great pacing of the plot from the start of the game to the cutscene after the Lakebed temple. Truly the game was pacing beautifully. Great dungeons, fairly good boss battles, introduction to horse-battles, lots of in-between dungeon content, and the most awesome cutscenes Nintendo have produced yet. And even more - mystery. Yes, that's what TP had going for it. Zant, extremely mysterious. Unfortunately, Ganondorf turned out to come back in (great introduction though) and from there, there were no more good plot-twists. If Nintendo had made a better twist, we may have seen Zant to turn out as a better character... who knows.

But yeah, to put it simply, the pacing of the game got wrecked. Unfortunate. Not too much of a problem though. The problem lay in the way Nintendo focused on Zant and Midna's idiotic storyline and the tackiness of it. I would have rather seen a grand Wind Waker-like Triforce storyline. Something that would have been concluded with the epic final ending.

But the greatest problem with TP lies in the way Midna seems to be the focus point of the game. Link is supposed to be the focus point of the game! The fact that Link can't talk and Midna can and the fact that Nintendo made TP a very plot-driven game, they just got Midna to do all the talking. Either don't make such a talkative, idiotic and massive, ugly looking side-kick or just make Link speak. But he wouldn't need a side-kick if he could speak, would he??

I also liked how CT was full of cats and the Cuccoo-ride, Nintendo do some crazy stuff.


Not too much to ask for. Thats what Nintendo had to do to make a game greater than OoT.

[Nathan]

To note Ganon, it did explain earlier in the game why the people could not see the "diamond around Hyrule Castle". In fact, the people are completely oblivious to anything that involves the "twilight realm".

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

I'd like to expand upon everyone else's posts.

But the greatest problem with TP lies in the way Midna seems to be the focus point of the game. Link is supposed to be the focus point of the game! The fact that Link can't talk and Midna can and the fact that Nintendo made TP a very plot-driven game, they just got Midna to do all the talking. Either don't make such a talkative, idiotic and massive, ugly looking side-kick or just make Link speak. But he wouldn't need a side-kick if he could speak, would he??

Actually, if you think about it - Rarely are any of the Zelda games, outside of OOT, centralized around Link. In fact, it's called the "legend of Zelda", and usually the story revolves around her and Ganon, not Link. Midna IS the FOCUS. Not "seems to be the focus" but IS. Afterall, the game is called "twilight Princess", and midna is the twilight princess.

I never understood why people think Link is suppose to be focus of Zelda games. Link is usually a bystander in every game, despite the "triforce of courage". He just always ends up getting mixed up in things by accident. The game is rarely focused around him, and the best part about the focus on Midna is that there was actually a story to the game other then "Ganon took Zelda, and is trying to collect all of the triforce to have world domination". We got to know the personality of Midna, something we rarely get from Zelda.

Oh, and the sidekick notion - it's not about if "link could speak". As a wolf, Link wont be communicating with anyone. Also, is it not Midna who is guiding you? It's not about speaking, it's about she is the only one who really knows WTF is going on.