Wind Waker Thesis

This thread is for the discussion of why you dislike Wind Waker, or to tell someone why they should like it. Why? Because Wind Waker is the most underrated and underappreciated Zelda game, yet it's my favorite and I'd like and explanation as to why people dislike it so much. I will state my points as to why it doesn't suck now.

Zelda fans: What I don't understand is that Majora's Mask wa hated by many because it was too similar to Ocarina of Time. So, what does Nintendo do? They switch it up insanely, and people ***** about that too. Zelda fans need to make up their mind. And what's worse is that the new competitor (TP) which is tied in overratedness with Ocarina of Time, is practically the same thing!?!?! Different graphics but same thing! What do you guys want?! Seriously!

Graphics: The biggest complaint I here about Wind Waker is the graphics, but honestly, Ocarina of Time looks like crap now, and so does TP compared to games like Bioshock or Assassin's Creed. Yet Wind Waker went with the Cel shaded look, which always looks good because you can't really improve on cel shaded graphics. And I understand if you don't like the graphics (even though they're amazing) but when you hate a game simply because of their graphics, you're most likely ignorant, or you complain about everything and can never be happy. I know someone who adored OoT and MM and once WW came out started to hate the Zelda series and never even tried WW. If you're one of them, I shall forever dislike you.

Replay Value: What I don't get is that TP and OoT get so much praise yet, there's nothing to do after you beat them. I went throught OoT my very first time and did everything my first time through. Same with TP. Yet for some odd reason, I still haven't completed WW, atleast there's always something to do in WW. Yet it's still hated.

Difficulty: Many people say it's too easy. For the people that think WW is too easy, maybe they should take a hard look at their precious TP. Because if it was difficult for them to beat TP, they shouldn't talk about difficulty in teh first place because they suck. Why would you complain about WW's difficulty yet turn around and play TP as if you're going to die? Cuz we all know you won't. I've never gotten a gameover in any 3d zelda game and I don't criticize them about that.

Size: One of the many things that TP is praised for is it's size. But, I can gurantee you, it would probably take the same if not more amount of time to travel the entire ocean in WW as covering the land of TP. And even if not, it's the second largest Zelda game and it was the largest when it came out. Why wasn't it praised for that? Graphics? Maybe.

Features: WW contains more features than most Zelda games and a whole hell of a lot more hidden things but no one seems to care. Wow, you can dig anywhere as a wolf, YOU CAN FIND HIDDEN TREASURES UNDER WATER!!!!But everyone loves their dig. What's funny is that WW supports digging too, just give the lady at the beginning of the game a pig and later you can have him dig you up things like Heart Pieces, sure beats rupees and the occasional heal. And rather than having a flock of cuccos which lay off of you and do like 1/4th of a heart, WW has pigs that only stop if you leave, or get them in water. Plus, they do 1 heart each. 3 if you find a fat pig. And what about mini-games? TP has like 1 min-game, and if it has more, it only has 1 good one, and that one is frustrating. (Rollgoal) Yet WW has so many I can't even list them. Not to mention it's much harder to complete WW. Where are the fairies in TP? In 1 cave. In WW? Scattered across the ocean, not to mention that you need to find and kill a Giant Octo to get one of the great fairies.

Story: WW has a better story than the others in my opinion, yet no one cares.
OoT: Deku Tree summons you and BAM you have awesome sword skills and save the day
MM: Don't even remember, don't care either.
TP: You're about to deliver a package and your friend gets taken by a giant green boar. Not to mention you get knocked out by (I think) a measly Moblin. Wow, real heroic Link.
WW: You see a pirate getting attacked and eventually she falls in some woods, you get a sword and get trained. Save her, only to see your sister get taken rather than the girl you saved, on your Birthday you go looking for yor sister and eventually someone sees a hero in you. Rather than you being born a hero.

Random Mentions: Even when you do complete WW it still is more fun mainly because of things like, the graphics. The graphics has this joyous feel to it that makes you want to play. Not to mention best Zelda music is in WW. But people can't get over Saria's song as if it wasn't annoying. On top of that the look of Link and the cast of characters as well have this look that adds humor to the game. Also, you spend the game with Zelda and the King. Rather than saving Zelda and that's it. Also WW reveals what Zelda's mom looks like.

Final Battle:
I'm not even getting into OoT and MM because you all know what happens.
TP: Wow, a fight with Ganon in a circle. Well atleast he's har-.....easy as hell? Wow, cool?
WW: Hyrule is in the midst of being flooded and Ganon is so close to getting his wish that I was literally scared for Hyrule, but then BAM! King comes out of nowhere and makes a wish. So you're fighting the pissed off Ganondorf while you're about to drown and at the end, Link dodges Ganon's move, rolls around him, slashes up his entire back, falls down and stabs Ganon in the dead middle of his forhead.

So anyway, discuss why you don't like WW because I think it's the best and I don't know what people love so much about the others. Don't get me wrong I liked them, but WW's best to me. And I don't know why it isn't to msot others.

...wow, not bitter at all are you?
Honestly, I don't know what you're harping about. From what I've seen, the vast majority of the people on this forum LOVE Wind Waker. And in the Future Zelda section, there's a poll about who's better? Cell shade or regular Link? I may be wrong, but I believe cell shade was WINNING last I saw. Honestly, there's not much WW hate around these parts man.
I see WAY more "TP was a disappointment" comments then any bashing of WW.

Also, Ocarina of Time is not overrated. Period. It was a major step in the Zelda series. Now, all the people who say "WE NEED ANOTHER OOT REMAKE" should really go soak there heads, but other than that, it gets it's due respect. No more. No less.
As for Majora's Mask, from what I understand, the majority of MM hate was from people who said that it was too DIFFERENT from the other Zelda games. It was only the second game that didn't really revolve around the "Get the Triforce, save the princess, don't let Ganon win" type of plot. It was really only similar in the graphics engine.

Anyway, I can't give much comment on whether or not Wind Waker is an excellent game [though I have heard mostly excellent feedback] because I do not own a Gamecube or a Wii :'[

Ya who said they hated WW so much? I liked it. Could you give me the link to the poll you were talking about Erimgard please?

Kid Link vs. Toon Link

I apologize, it was in the General Zelda Section
There was another graphics related thread in the Future Zelda Section, but it only has like 5 replies thus far.

As you can see, the count stands [at the time of this post]
Cell shade: 13
Young Link: 11
Both: 10

Originally Posted by Erimgard

...wow, not bitter at all are you?
Honestly, I don't know what you're harping about. From what I've seen, the vast majority of the people on this forum LOVE Wind Waker. And in the Future Zelda section, there's a poll about who's better? Cell shade or regular Link? I may be wrong, but I believe cell shade was WINNING last I saw. Honestly, there's not much WW hate around these parts man.
I see WAY more "TP was a disappointment" comments then any bashing of WW.

Also, Ocarina of Time is not overrated. Period. It was a major step in the Zelda series. Now, all the people who say "WE NEED ANOTHER OOT REMAKE" should really go soak there heads, but other than that, it gets it's due respect. No more. No less.
As for Majora's Mask, from what I understand, the majority of MM hate was from people who said that it was too DIFFERENT from the other Zelda games. It was only the second game that didn't really revolve around the "Get the Triforce, save the princess, don't let Ganon win" type of plot. It was really only similar in the graphics engine.

Anyway, I can't give much comment on whether or not Wind Waker is an excellent game [though I have heard mostly excellent feedback] because I do not own a Gamecube or a Wii :'[

Ummm ya, first off, no, not the vast majority of people love Wind Waker on this forum and even if so, not in general. I'm not speaking of this forum, more of the general crowd of Zelda fans, only like 10% of Zelda fans go here so yeah.

If you see more TP's a disappointment...then you obviously don't look around. Go somewhere on the internet like Youtube, go to a random Zelda video, pick ne of the commenters and send them a mssage of what their favorite game is. Do this multiple time. Gurantee you vast majority will be OoT or TP.

A poll on which Link is better has nothing to do with what people think of the games themselves. But alright I guess.

...not overrated? No, no, no. It is overrated. Wow it was a major step in the Zelda franchise so every person in the world thinks it's like the greatest game ever created. What about the first game? That started all of your faves, how much respect does it get? Barely any, in fact, I doubt you could name me the first game ever created without going on Wikipedia.

Yeah...trust me...no...I spend my days on the internet and playing games. I know why people dislike MM. You can't get that information from 1 forum. Trust me, majority of people disliked MM because it was way too similar. Not storyline-wise. Gameplay wise, graphic wise etc.

So, you've never played it, but saying that people love it...alright.

Honestly, the majority of people that loved it are people that never played Zelda beforehand.


EDIT:haha, not only does the fact that people preferring Link's having nothing to do with the game but also, it's Young Link. If it was TP Link. TP Link would most likely win.

Originally Posted by Forte

Ummm ya, first off, no, not the vast majority of people love Wind Waker on this forum and even if so, not in general. I'm not speaking of this forum, more of the general crowd of Zelda fans, only like 10% of Zelda fans go here so yeah.

If you see more TP's a disappointment...then you obviously don't look around. Go somewhere on the internet like Youtube, go to a random Zelda video, pick ne of the commenters and send them a mssage of what their favorite game is. Do this multiple time. Gurantee you vast majority will be OoT or TP.

A poll on which Link is better has nothing to do with what people think of the games themselves. But alright I guess.

...not overrated? No, no, no. It is overrated. Wow it was a major step in the Zelda franchise so every person in the world thinks it's like the greatest game ever created. What about the first game? That started all of your faves, how much respect does it get? Barely any, in fact, I doubt you could name me the first game ever created without going on Wikipedia.

Yeah...trust me...no...I spend my days on the internet and playing games. I know why people dislike MM. You can't get that information from 1 forum. Trust me, majority of people disliked MM because it was way too similar. Not storyline-wise. Gameplay wise, graphic wise etc.

So, you've never played it, but saying that people love it...alright.

Honestly, the majority of people that loved it are people that never played Zelda beforehand.

Why on earth would you start a thread on a forum asking why people dislike a certain game, and then when told the majority don't, change the subject to why people outside of the forum dislike it?
We can't answer for people who don't come here.
And I didn't get my information about why people disliked Majora's Mask from this forum. I got it from living through the release of the game. I remember when it first came out, and I remember people disliking it because you start the game as a Deku Scrub and because it doesn't take place in Hyrule. And the gameplay is not similar at all to OoT. It's MUCH more focused on sidequests and has virtually no fighting when compared to it's predecessor.

And when you say 'the first video game' do you mean the first Zelda Game, or the first ever video game?
Anyone who doesn't know the first Zelda game ever doesn't belong on a Zelda Forum *shakes head sadly*

I don't have to play Wind Waker to say people like it. I don't own a lot of money but I know Bill Gates is rich. I don't see your point at all.
You're upset that people don't like WW. You're upset when you're told that people do like it. Wow. Not easy to please are you?

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Why on earth would you start a thread on a forum asking why people dislike a certain game, and then when told the majority don't, change the subject to why people outside of the forum dislike it?
We can't answer for people who don't come here.
And I didn't get my information about why people disliked Majora's Mask from this forum. I got it from living through the release of the game. I remember when it first came out, and I remember people disliking it because you start the game as a Deku Scrub and because it doesn't take place in Hyrule. And the gameplay is not similar at all to OoT. It's MUCH more focused on sidequests and has virtually no fighting when compared to it's predecessor.

And when you say 'the first video game' do you mean the first Zelda Game, or the first ever video game?
Anyone who doesn't know the first Zelda game ever doesn't belong on a Zelda Forum *shakes head sadly*

I don't have to play Wind Waker to say people like it. I don't own a lot of money but I know Bill Gates is rich. I don't see your point at all.
You're upset that people don't like WW. You're upset when you're told that people do like it. Wow. Not easy to please are you?

Yeah I know that the majority of people dislike it, on or off the forum. I'm saying the majority of Zelda fans dislike it. Is that easy to grasp?

I don't know why people here dislike it, and if it is because it's not similar, and WW's not similar (assuming you're right about people lovin it) then they still can't make up their minds making me right in the first place. Nice job, that sure accomplished something didn't it?

Yeah, first Zelda game./Sarcasm

Haha, laughable, I'm not upset that people dislike it, I made this thread to see why, because I want to know why they dislike it because I don't see the fatal flaws that they obviously do. And on top of that, I'm not upset that you said people like it, I'm upset that you think you know what you're talking about considering the fact that you get your information from being on a forum for 1 month which doesn't on it's own even contain 10% of the fans so you obviously don't know what you're talking about especially with statements like
"And in the Future Zelda section, there's a poll about who's better? Cell shade or regular Link? I may be wrong, but I believe cell shade was WINNING last I saw."
Wow, that statement sure proved alot. I'm sorry but what you're saying isn't making any sense.

You act as if you know the Zelda fans. I'm a member of like 5 different Zelda forums (and have been for a while) and am in many Zelda clans across the internet, not to mention I have many friends total throughout all of this that are fans and I spend my days on youtube, which contains like half the population of the world (Exaggeration, don't take it seriously), discussing Zelda.

I pretty much agree with the OP.

TWW is a complete masterpiece.

It's got amazing story, music, replay value, sidequests and graphics (the best in the series) and is truly epic. Plus the ending is completely amazing. It's only flaws IMO is that the dungeons aren't as good as they could be and it's too easy. (sadly, it's by far the easiest Zelda game IMO)

Originally Posted by NintendoTogepi

I pretty much agree with the OP.

TWW is a complete masterpiece.

It's got amazing story, music, replay value, sidequests and graphics (the best in the series) and is truly epic. Plus the ending is completely amazing. It's only flaws IMO is that the dungeons aren't as good as they could be and it's too easy. (sadly, it's by far the easiest Zelda game IMO)

The temples were...ok I guess.
Fire Temple was a releif after the OoT Fire Temple.
Forest Temple was very fun actually, I liked it.
Water Temple (Tower of Gods) was WAY too short.
Forsaken Fortress was actually pretty fun after having your sword. Running away from the water was fun and finally killing that bird was satisfying.
Wind Temple good design, but kind of bland, atleast the boss was fun.
Ghost Temple, other than the mirror room it was a good temple.
Final Temple the thing that made this amazing is the epic ending plus fighting all the bosses again made it pretty cool.

Originally Posted by NintendoTogepi

I pretty much agree with the OP.

TWW is a complete masterpiece.

It's got amazing story, music, replay value, sidequests and graphics (the best in the series) and is truly epic. Plus the ending is completely amazing. It's only flaws IMO is that the dungeons aren't as good as they could be and it's too easy. (sadly, it's by far the easiest Zelda game IMO)

^ Agreed.

I didn't like the dungeons much as well. They could have at least have some more effort into making the temples a little more... exciting? But everything else? I can't argue much with such a well-made game.

I find this article to be rather biased.

1) Majora's mask hated? Hardly. It's one of the best games in the series. Find me a Zelda fan on these forums who says otherwise.

2) Graphics: *checks kid vs toon* yeah... toon winning. It's really a better look for Zelda IMO.

3) Replay value: yeah, TWW has more replay value.

4) TP and TWW are about the same difficulty. TP is probably the easier though.

5) Size: Yeah, TWW is bigger. It's almost too big. It takes forever to get from one island to another. Open sail, go get lunch, come back, still not at destination. TP on the other hand feels kinda small, and empty. 2 sides to the coin.

6) Features
TP has plenty of minigames:
ballon popping bird
rollogoal
fishing
bomb boating
cucoo rupees
STAR
Goat Herding
Snowboarding

TWW has:
Battleship
Canon barrels
Boating course
mail delivery
flight control platform
oasis puzzle

Do your research. I count more in TP.

Story:
OoT: Outcast gets a fairy, is called to the patriarch, and is sent to Hyrule as an emissary after his homeland was cursed, which spurs into a time traveling adventure.
MM: After having defeated Ganon, Link returns to his childhood only to have his beloved fairy companion leave his side. He embarks on a quest to find her but ends up being sucked into a whole new world which is about to be destroyed by a moon controlled by a lonely kid in a cursed mask.
TWW: A boy living with his sister on an island is enjoying his birthday. He is gifted with the garments of a hero. Then in an unexpected twist, a giant bird shows up carrying a girl. The girl falls into the forest, where Link picks up his trusty sword and sets off to help. Once the action is over, Aryll conveniently comes in and gets kidnapped. Link goes on a quest to save her which turns into a struggle to save Hyrule. Yet in the end, Hyrule is destroyed.
TP: A lad is living a carefree life in the forest village of ordon. He is asked by a friend to take a sword to Hyrule as an emissary of the village. Before he sets off though, the children of the village are kidnapped, and he is left out cold. He is then sucked into a darkness shrowding over the land, where he transforms into a sacred beast. He meets a little imp named midna. They set out on an adventure together to seperate the twilight from the land and restore peace to Hyrule.

They're all pretty equal story wise. MM is probably the best.

Final Battle:
OoT: first time through was pretty hard. The difficulty didn't stay long.
MM: a good deal harder without FD. More replay value to it.
TWW: sheesh... for a guy twice Link's height wielding 2 4ft long swords, you'd think he'd pose a threat. It's just press A when it lights up.
TP: Start off with Zelda, nice twist, fighting Zelda. Then we go to Ganon, harder fight. Then we have the horseback battle, gotta say lotta fun. Then the epic swordfight.

MM and TP take the final battle category. MM was tougher and more original. TP was rather epic.

Sidenotes:
TP was indeed a carbon copy of OoT. Not denying it. At the same time though, it was quite a few people's first Zelda. So ofcourse they'll like it best of all. You said OoT looks like crap. I disagree. It was great for its time and it still looks plenty good to me today. TWW is a great game, and the inclusion of the second quest really makes it worthwhile. MM is probably the best of the lot.

MM
OoT/TWW
TP

Originally Posted by Rhalen

Story:
OoT: Outcast gets a fairy, is called to the patriarch, and is sent to Hyrule as an emissary after his homeland was cursed, which spurs into a time traveling adventure.

MM: After having defeated Ganon, Link returns to his childhood only to have his beloved fairy companion leave his side. He embarks on a quest to find her but ends up being sucked into a whole new world which is about to be destroyed by a moon controlled by a lonely kid in a cursed mask.

TWW: A boy living with his sister on an island is enjoying his birthday. He is gifted with the garments of a hero. Then in an unexpected twist, a giant bird shows up carrying a girl. The girl falls into the forest, where Link picks up his trusty sword and sets off to help. Once the action is over, Aryll conveniently comes in and gets kidnapped. Link goes on a quest to save her which turns into a struggle to save Hyrule. Yet in the end, Hyrule is destroyed.

TP: A lad is living a carefree life in the forest village of ordon. He is asked by a friend to take a sword to Hyrule as an emissary of the village. Before he sets off though, the children of the village are kidnapped, and he is left out cold. He is then sucked into a darkness shrowding over the land, where he transforms into a sacred beast. He meets a little imp named midna. They set out on an adventure together to seperate the twilight from the land and restore peace to Hyrule.

They're all pretty equal story wise. MM is probably the best.

Well, MM, TWW and TP start out pretty equally story wise, but the thing is that TWW sustains the story the best. It keeps the high quality through out the whole game and infact it doesn't even peak until the very end! Whereas in TP where the story starts off fantastic and then...eh.

I haven't played MM so I don't know the details.

While i do think that TWW gets unfair treatment from some Zelda fans i think you're being a bit harsh on OOT, TP and MM. TWW is a great game but their are parts off it( the dungeons and Tingle's triforce maps) that could have been done better in my opinion.
I think you should have made this thread in one of these other forums you speak about where people do bash TWW because hardly anyone does it her.