Hey, where did it all go?

As all of you have probably noticed while playing Zelda games is that the geography of Hyrule varies from title to title---drastically.

In Twilight Princess and Link to the Past the Temple of Time goes from being relatively close to Hyrule Castle to being in the forest outside of the "Lanayru" Providence altogether...WTF?

What gives.

• The Forest Temple has become a gigantic tree.
• The Lost Woods became the Ordon Providence as a whole.
• Where's the Fire Temple?
• The Dodongo Mines are obviously the Goron Mines
• The Water Temple is in the same place...but farther down and not under a hill

Are you catching on?

Was there some kind of massive landslide? If there is a logical explanation, please tell me.

I blame george bush.

brilliant. simply genius.

I blame george bush.

There are many different theories. The two most prominent I believe are that either there was an earthquake/eruption that altered everything (explains the huge canyons and such), or that the map has simply retconned the OoT one. I'd go with the latter.

I think the retcon factor is the easiest way to explain the Temple of Time and some other parts ( Zora's Domain in the wrong spot etc )

I think there are a few cases where we can speculate though:
-The dead Great Deku tree of OoT's child time could be the new forest temple...I have a hard time believing trees that size would be common.
-Lanayru's shrine could be the old Water Temple...that whole island thingy resembles the island in Lake Hylia of OoT. It even has a massive dead tree atop it, much like OoT. Maybe over time the water level dropped, the Great Bridge was built and Temple relocated by the Zora's. It's been a long time...and water erodes stuff over hundreds/thousands of years.
- I think the old Fire Temple may be the Goron Mines. It's said to be sacred grounds.
- The entrance to Snowpeak could be the original Zora's fountain, as OoT's had a mountain pass with trees in the background. Either that or the entrance is the old Ice Cavern, and the main Zora's Domain is located on the old fountain.
-Maybe the Arbiter's Grounds were built on top of the destroyed Gerudo's Fortress..explaining the lack of real Gerudos. Maybe they were the criminals that were sent to "the underworld via the cursed mirror." and Ganondorf was caught later.

Originally Posted by Mayor Adam West

There are many different theories. The two most prominent I believe are that either there was an earthquake/eruption that altered everything (explains the huge canyons and such), or that the map has simply retconned the OoT one. I'd go with the latter.

Agreed -- the latter.

One hundred-odd years is not nearly enough time to affect some of the more absurd types of geological changes that I've heard bandied about in these forums, and it's simply that the game designers retconned the map from OoT to TP to serve the needs of their particular storyline.

That's it. Nothing more or less complicated or needlessly conspiratorial than that.

The best thing to do is to think of the "window" through which one views the Zelda series and Hyrule itself as getting less "foggy" with each passing game...the Twilight Princess map is how the OoT and ALttP maps "really" look, and you're just seeing it with clarity for the very first time in this most recent game.

Whenever I play Ocarina or what-have-you now, I merely accept the fact that I'm travelling across Twilight Princess's map...but that the window is "foggier" than I would prefer. However, I have no problems accepting inconsistencies in the maps because I know that the designers were working with the best tools they had at a given time, and gave us the clearest glimpse into Hyrule possible at that moment.

And, yes...even the TP map might one day be retconned to a newer appearance, with new technologies available to the designers, and this hypothetical future game becoming the new "window" through which the Zelda universe is viewed.

Other fiction writers use this technique, and it helps cure many a sleepless night for the reader.

it's a just game, is not that a giant rock crashed on the world and put everything in other part, is just the programmers got bored of the old maps and decided to perfect it

Originally Posted by Coma Black

As all of you have probably noticed while playing Zelda games is that the geography of Hyrule varies from title to title---drastically.

In Twilight Princess and Link to the Past the Temple of Time goes from being relatively close to Hyrule Castle to being in the forest outside of the "Lanayru" Providence altogether...WTF?

What gives.

The game designers moved it, although, as you mention, it doesn't synch up with its previous location in Hyrule Castle Town any longer.

There's no explanation for this provided in the game, though it's also quite possible that there exists more than one Temple of Time, à la the multiple Forest Temples, Water Temples, and Fire Temples seen throughout the series.

Originally Posted by Coma Black

• The Forest Temple has become a gigantic tree.

As to this, it really isn't very likely at all, considering the fact that the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time was a man-made structure hewn from stonework, and the temple in Twilight Princess is an entirely living, organic, predominantly wooden labyrinth.

You'd need a quite a bit more than a single century to break down the OoT temple's masonry.

Originally Posted by Coma Black

• The Lost Woods became the Ordon Providence as a whole.

Quite possible, but I think you probably mean "Faron Woods" to the north of the village more specifically, as these are the nearest analogue to OoT's Lost Woods.

Originally Posted by Coma Black

• Where's the Fire Temple?

Retconically-speaking, it's probably still sitting there atop Death Mountain near Spectacle Rock, but inaccessible for the purposes of TP's gameplay and storyline.

Originally Posted by Coma Black

• The Dodongo Mines are obviously the Goron Mines

I tend to agree with this theory, as the Dodongo Mines were an important location to the Gorons' overall lifestyle, but I wish the game was a bit clearer on it. Seeing as how they're both promixal in both OoT and TP, though, this notion does gain some added weight.

Originally Posted by Coma Black

• The Water Temple is in the same place...but farther down and not under a hill

Although, I buy the "Lanayru's Shrine" theory more, seeing as how the Lakebed Temple from Twilight doesn't even have the same layout as Ocarina's Water Temple, plus there's that tree-thing to consider.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

-Maybe the Arbiter's Grounds were built on top of the destroyed Gerudo's Fortress..explaining the lack of real Gerudos. Maybe they were the criminals that were sent to "the underworld via the cursed mirror." and Ganondorf was caught later.

However, remember, though, that the Arbiter's Grounds were indeed around during the time period of Ocarina of Time...Ganon gets put on trial there, and sentenced to execution approximately a year or two after Child Link returns from the future.

So they would definitely lie to the north of the Spirit Temple in the previous game, but "inaccessible" in Ocarina itself, so to speak.

Another interesting point to consider:

It's quite possible that the remnants of the Arbiter's Grounds have, centuries later, become the Desert Palace in A Link to the Past, owing to their almost exact corresponding locations in each, respectively, and the fact that the Zelda III Desert Palace contains many eerily similar internal characteristics also seen in Twilight Princess's Arbiter's Grounds (sand sinkholes, et cetera).

Originally Posted by Khao

it's a just game, is not that a giant rock crashed on the world and put everything in other part, is just the programmers got bored of the old maps and decided to perfect it

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The Goddesses are women.

Women love to redecorate all the time.

Thus, the Goddesses redecorated Hyrule.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

I think the retcon factor is the easiest way to explain the Temple of Time and some other parts ( Zora's Domain in the wrong spot etc )

I think there are a few cases where we can speculate though:
-The dead Great Deku tree of OoT's child time could be the new forest temple...I have a hard time believing trees that size would be common.
-Lanayru's shrine could be the old Water Temple...that whole island thingy resembles the island in Lake Hylia of OoT. It even has a massive dead tree atop it, much like OoT. Maybe over time the water level dropped, the Great Bridge was built and Temple relocated by the Zora's. It's been a long time...and water erodes stuff over hundreds/thousands of years.
- I think the old Fire Temple may be the Goron Mines. It's said to be sacred grounds.
- The entrance to Snowpeak could be the original Zora's fountain, as OoT's had a mountain pass with trees in the background. Either that or the entrance is the old Ice Cavern, and the main Zora's Domain is located on the old fountain.
-Maybe the Arbiter's Grounds were built on top of the destroyed Gerudo's Fortress..explaining the lack of real Gerudos. Maybe they were the criminals that were sent to "the underworld via the cursed mirror." and Ganondorf was caught later.

Makes sense. Especially the one about the water temple, cuz in ooT theres a statue that resembles Lanaryu in the temple with a glowing crystal switch in its mouth.

Originally Posted by Mayor Adam West

There are many different theories. The two most prominent I believe are that either there was an earthquake/eruption that altered everything (explains the huge canyons and such), or that the map has simply retconned the OoT one. I'd go with the latter.

Yeah...

It's simply to improve the gameplay. Otherwise we'd receive constantly the exact same yet boring OoT map, which would be very repetetive initially.

I wouldn't really consider this as anything too complicated, Coma Black, still lovely that you thought of it, anyway.

I blame global warming and hurricane Katrina.