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  #101 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:06 PM
Tigerboi Tigerboi is a male United States Tigerboi is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Talhoffer really really sucks at video games.
Last Edited by Tigerboi; 09-20-2009 at 03:07 PM. Reason:
  #102 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:15 PM
Fringant Épéiste Fringant Épéiste is a male United States Fringant Épéiste is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerboi View Post
Talhoffer really really sucks at video games.
Is that honestly the best argument you can come up with? If so, I'm going to have to ask you to leave before we all catch the fail.
  #103 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:19 PM
Zeldablue777 Zeldablue777 is a female United States Zeldablue777 is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
TWW had intuitive combat, but it wasn't always just given to you, oh and here's something really important: THE ENEMIES DID MORE THAN 1/4 OF A HEART DAMAGE Seriously, how can you expect anything of a challenge from a game that gives you 12 hits from the start and an autoshield, and enemies that aim for said shield? It should be easier to take damage. I have a HARD TIME DYING in that game!
Are we playing the same game here? Have you died playing Wind Waker did you ever have to guide a friend through the game because of it's painfully "hard" puzzles? Really? Because Wind Waker is by far the easiest Zeda game ever. To the point where I don't press any buttons besides "A" because it always causes an instant kill to all enemies.

I wasn't even aware of the fact that TWW has a player's guide (does it?) because I never needed a walkthrough. Of course every fan gets stumped on different games, I'll just say that I'm well known at getting stuck on obvious situations, but nothing in TWW kept my thinking for more than 30 minutes.

And it's not like Zelda is an action game where Link dies from enemies 24/7. The bigger killer is from environmental deaths. Falling off a cliff is 1/4th damage, falling in lava is 1/4th, getting squished to death is 1/4th, drowning is 1/4th, freezing to death is 1/4th. Wanna see those numbers in TP, the game doesn't freakin' care if you only have 3 hearts, falling off a cliff is 1 to 2 heart, (Wolf Link has double the damage) falling in lava is 2 to 4 to 20 hearts, being squished is 1 to 2 hearts, drowning is an INSTANT DEATH, freezing to death is 1 to 2 to 20 hearts. And when you're clumsy that'll kill you. I know those numbers from experience. =/ I am a clumsy Zelda fan, enemies are and never were a problem, everything else...was really baaaad.

Do a 3 heart challenge in TWW and do a 3 heart challenge in TP, you'll figure out which one is freakin' brutal. I never died in TWW, but TP is very sneaky, I've died in so many random obsure ways.
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Last Edited by Zeldablue777; 09-20-2009 at 03:28 PM. Reason:
  #104 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:38 PM
Tigerboi Tigerboi is a male United States Tigerboi is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talhoffer View Post
Is that honestly the best argument you can come up with? If so, I'm going to have to ask you to leave before we all catch the fail.
bwahahahahaha.

You said OoT is hard. I think the fail has already been established. I actually played it last night until I finished the the forest temple. I didn't die once. Hell, some of the bosses in that game go down faster than normal enemies.

Every 3D zelda is retarded easy.

I like your little section about the gameplay flaws in TP.

The camera was wonky. That's hilarious seeing as the gamecube version of the game had a free camera system and that the iron boots directional changing wasn't a problem if you know to keep holding the control stick in the starting direction. I thought everyone knew that.

Here's a fun fact. I'm playing all the 3D zeldas over again. The N64 zelda's, mostly OoT, has some of the craziest and most random hit boxes ever. I hit a stalfos in the back last night and it got blocked.

Also, you can't lock onto enemies that are behind you in the N64 games which is really annoying since I got used to it in the gamecube games.


I'll alkso never understand why zelda fans whine so much about story when it's always uninspired and poorly explained. OoT literately starts like this.

"Hey! you're this guy! go do this!"

"Ok!"

"Hi, i'm a princess! I have the power to convinve you to go around stabbing monsters in dangerous caves after less than five minutes of conversation!"

"wow, you're right!"

lol zelda fans.
  #105 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:39 PM
Fringant Épéiste Fringant Épéiste is a male United States Fringant Épéiste is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldablue777 View Post
Are we playing the same game here? Have you died playing Wind Waker did you ever have to guide a friend through the game because of it's painfully "hard" puzzles? Really? Because Wind Waker is by far the easiest Zeda game ever. To the point where I don't press any buttons besides "A" because it always causes an instant kill to all enemies.
Admittedly TWW was rather easy, but TP takes the cake and spoon feeds it to you pre chewed.

Quote:
I wasn't even aware of the fact that TWW has a player's guide (does it?) because I never needed a walkthrough. Of course every fan gets stumped on different games, I'll just say that I'm well known at getting stuck on obvious situations, but nothing in TWW kept my thinking for more than 30 minutes.
And nothing in TP kept me thinking for more than 30 seconds except that master sword puzzle which was quite the nice little challenge, but not enough of one.

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And it's not like Zelda is an action game where Link dies from enemies 24/7. The bigger killer is from environmental deaths. Falling off a cliff is 1/4th damage, falling in lava is 1/4th, getting squished to death is 1/4th, drowning is 1/4th, freezing to death is 1/4th. Wanna see those numbers in TP, the game doesn't freakin' care if you only have 3 hearts, falling off a cliff is 1 to 2 heart, (Wolf Link has double the damage) falling in lava is 2 to 4 to 20 hearts, being squished is 1 to 2 hearts, drowning is an INSTANT DEATH, freezing to death is 1 to 2 to 20 hearts. And when you're clumsy that'll kill you. I know those numbers from experience. =/ I am a clumsy Zelda fan, enemies are and never were a problem, everything else...was really baaaad.
... but what about those of us who actually use our thumbs? I can understand being clumsy to an extent, but the game still gives you 10 times the hp you need.

Quote:
Do a 3 heart challenge in TWW and do a 3 heart challenge in TP, you'll figure out which one is freakin' brutal. I never died in TWW, but TP is very sneaky, I've died in so many random obsure ways.
Been there done that. TWW provided more deaths at a count 3 to 0, and those were all enemy kills within the dungeons. Stupid wizrobes. Also note I went shieldless into TP, having burned the ordon shield and not getting the hylian.

Tiberboi, try being on an intellectual standard that is atleast worth half of my care, then I might try using reason on you, but as you seem incapable of using such a cognitive function, I see no reason as to why I should bother wasting anymore time on you.
Last Edited by Fringant Épéiste; 09-20-2009 at 03:48 PM. Reason:
  #106 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Alex Alex is a male Alex is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

I'd say OoT was harder than TP. Not in combat, because Zelda combat is easy, but as far as puzzles go, I found it to be a bit more challenging.
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  #107 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 03:59 PM
Zeldablue777 Zeldablue777 is a female United States Zeldablue777 is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

...I'm sorry? Did you use fairies? =/ My friend is still stuck in Twilight Princess. And according to Miyamoto's sources only 40% of people who bought OoT were able to beat it, which is rather sad...I think there is something screwy with my OoT (GCN version) because the game seems harder than the 64 version. I mean Phantom Ganon went beserk on me once and there was NOTHING I could do. D=...making Oot the hardest for me.

Of course Ive beaten OoT so many times the challenge isn't even there anymore, when I finally got my hands on TP I died 3 times within the first day. And then 10 more times the following day. buuut we were messing around because my cousin was holding the nunchuck while I held the wiimote...it was so messed up, we went through the whole game like that, it was nearly impossible. xD We got used to it and never died again, the we got to Darkhammer and died one last death.

TP allows for more of a challenge though, wearing the zora armor with 3 hearts, no shield and only using the Ordon Sword is a major challenge. TWW doesn't allow for that kind of tweaking...and even if it did the only thing that could take out 3 hearts in one hit was a big black pig. =/ I don't think it's even worth arguing about TP and TWW difficulty...I've had an enemy take out 8 of my hearts in one hit and kill me, then a fairy healed me and Link lost an additional 5 hearts after getting 8 back. I was freakin' ticked. D=
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Last Edited by Zeldablue777; 09-20-2009 at 04:06 PM. Reason:
  #108 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Alex Alex is a male Alex is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

You shouldn't need to handicap yourself.
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  #109 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 04:08 PM
Abyss Master Abyss Master is a male Norway Abyss Master is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talhoffer View Post
In OoT, the overworld would be filled at night with stalchildren.
There were always only two at a time, and these enemies wouldn't appear if you were standing on something like a road. Plus night lasts for like, two minutes. That is hardly accountable.

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It wasn't totally empty.
No, it wasn't - that's true. There were some holes to go down and the Peahats/Big Poes.

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On another note, the OoT overworld did its job. It was an expanse that got you from point A to B without being overly complicated and dull.
It wasn't complicated, but it certainly was dull.

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Running across didn't take much time
It would take about as much time to run across Hyrule Field in OoT as it would to run across Eldin Field in TP.

So yeah, it would take some time. And it would be boring.

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and then the warp songs were frequent and took you where ever you needed to get to. Thus making traveling not a hassle.
But here's the thing; you can only acquire said warp points halfway through the game, and there are only six warp points all across Hyrule, and only with the Water Temple are you not required to go to the same area as the particular warp song would bring you to. It's very much the same with TP, where you have to defeat a bunch of shadow creatures before you can use a warp point, but at least the wolf is a somewhat fast runner and you're given Epona to use early in the game.

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TWW's artstyle is enough to set it apart.
No, it really isn't.

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There is a definite downward curve in quality on the last half of the game.
Not really. Depends on what you mean. Obviously the story becomes simpler to follow and there's a straightforward progress from temple to temple ala OoT, but the temples themselves were great.

Quote:
Quite honestly I believe they altered the end to have Ganondorf, just for the sake of having him in a wii launch title.
Ganondorf was confirmed to be in the game quite a while before launch. I know this because I got excited about what possible role they could put him in.

There's also the fact that Zant makes a pretty significant reference to him right after Lakebed, and the flashback with the Sages further pushes Ganondorf up.

I've been of the mindset that Ganondorf wasn't as fledged out as he could have been in TP, but I don't believe that he was a mere last-minute addition.

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Horseback riding is the one thing TP got right. That I can give you, but any strike other than a targeted strike or the swordspin would almost never hit.
Uhm, incorrect. I mean, what? o.O

Quote:
Now for the flaws in gameplay: the camera went a bit wonky at times. The magnet boots would at times just randomly decide 'hey lets go the opposite direction of the analog' and stuff like that.
Sounds more like faults with your own game than actual flaws in gameplay, because I've never had camera problems (playing the GC version, meaning I can adjust the camera as I like) and I've not had any problems with the iron boots.

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The entire plot is about Midna who's a rather copy paste character,
Oh do tell who was copied and pasted here.

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who isn't as good as we were promised.
And do tell what we were promised, because I can't recall.

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Let's see...
OoT Shadow Temple
OoT Every other dungeon
OoT's minigames
All of those alone are harder than the entirety of TP and that's just one game.
Oh dear lord shoot me now, you can't be serious.

That's just... ahahahahah, that's funny.

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MM Water Temple
It's called Great Bay, and it honestly isn't difficult at all, if only misleading at times.

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MM Pirate fortress
Hello Stone Mask.

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MM Minigames
What's with you and minigames? Are they honestly that difficult for you?

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MM Getting the fierce diety mask
A quest that requires you to carry out all other sidequests just to gather all the masks and then go through 4 tedious minidungeons in order to get a mask that will effectively make every boss battle a joke? I fail to see the difficulty.

Quote:
MM Anju and Kafei
The hardest part in this sidequest was having patience enough to carry the entirety of it through.

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TWW... every dungeon
wat

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In all of these games, there were moments where I actually had to think.
That's cool - I just hope to god you're not serious about the minigames, because if so then Tigerboi is right - you must suck at videogames. Because it's nigh impossible to imagine.

Quote:
TP it was just... I have the perfect vid for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRRsph1Gx8

Even if it is an OoT spoof, the ending gets the point across.
Uhm, that OoT was an easy game?

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It takes three darknuts in TP to beat me. 3 of the hardest enemy.
At least you got taken down. That has yet to happen to me in MM (though Gyorg or whatever his name was got close).

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OoT bosses were actually worth fighting. MM's too.
TP's too :3

[quote]THE ENEMIES DID MORE THAN 1/4 OF A HEART DAMAGE

Holy ****e.

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I have a HARD TIME DYING in that game!
You strange, masochistic person who wants to die in a video game.

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Woah woah woah: How can you make the same complaints of TP on the other games?
Because they're legit complaints, hurr hurr.

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The other games weren't promised to be the best game ever
And neither was TP.

Best Zelda game, however, is a different matter. And Ocarina of Time was hyped up to be the best Zelda yet before it was released too, so...

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and delayed for 2.5 years
TP was announced 2.5 years before release. It's original release date was meant to be in 2005. Yes, it was delayed, but don't exaggerate so goddamn much, it's slowly becoming a deadly sin of the Zelda fan community.

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Like TP for any Zelda fan.
Well damn guys, I suppose we're no longer Zelda fans.

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It makes it very disappointing. Especially when we were told for 2.5 years it would be the best thing ever.
Your own brain told you that. I mean, there's one thing believing what Reggie is saying when this comes up: "TP is gonna be the best Zelda ever, I think." but it's a different thing to believe the common fanboy going "THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST THING EVER!!!".

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The fact that it's bad makes it bad.
This one made me laugh.

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Gameplay is full of inaccurate gimmicks
Oh dear lord we finally got to that word.

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that confuse shield bash and swordspin,
Play the GC version.

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and make me go the opposite direction that I want to.
Or get a copy of the game that isn't effed up.

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Cheating AI makes games more fun.
No they f***ing don't. e_e

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Hence Mario Kart being so insanely popular.
Mario Kart is popular because of the multiplayer, not because the AI will buttrape you. Imagine a single-player only Mario Kart. It would be the biggest disaster you could possibly fathom. Multiplayer is the sole reason behind the popularity of Mario Kart.
  #110 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 04:23 PM
Tigerboi Tigerboi is a male United States Tigerboi is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talhoffer View Post
Tiberboi, try being on an intellectual standard that is atleast worth half of my care, then I might try using reason on you, but as you seem incapable of using such a cognitive function, I see no reason as to why I should bother wasting anymore time on you.
"I'm cornered on several points so I'm going to give a pretentious response. "

Ok dude, whatever makes you happy I guess.
  #111 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 04:46 PM
Zeldablue777 Zeldablue777 is a female United States Zeldablue777 is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
You shouldn't need to handicap yourself.
Isn't that what difficulty settings are all about? Handicapping?
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  #112 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 04:53 PM
Alex Alex is a male Alex is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Enemies should just be harder, I don't see why the player needs to avoid certain things in the game. Why can't I get all the heart containers and still have a bit of a challenge?

Zelda games need to take a hint from ALttP.
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  #113 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Tigerboi Tigerboi is a male United States Tigerboi is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

I've been saying that they just need to do difficulty settings for years. But Zelda just isn't meant to be hard, guys. Miyamoto produced games just aren't anymore.

The one is going ot be easy too. Just learn to accept it. A game doesn't have to be hard to be fun.
Last Edited by Tigerboi; 09-20-2009 at 05:31 PM. Reason:
  #114 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Alex Alex is a male Alex is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Difficulty settings would be nice.
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  #115 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Fringant Épéiste Fringant Épéiste is a male United States Fringant Épéiste is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldablue777 View Post
...I'm sorry? Did you use fairies? =/ My friend is still stuck in Twilight Princess. And according to Miyamoto's sources only 40% of people who bought OoT were able to beat it, which is rather sad...I think there is something screwy with my OoT (GCN version) because the game seems harder than the 64 version. I mean Phantom Ganon went beserk on me once and there was NOTHING I could do. D=...making Oot the hardest for me.

Of course Ive beaten OoT so many times the challenge isn't even there anymore, when I finally got my hands on TP I died 3 times within the first day. And then 10 more times the following day. buuut we were messing around because my cousin was holding the nunchuck while I held the wiimote...it was so messed up, we went through the whole game like that, it was nearly impossible. xD We got used to it and never died again, the we got to Darkhammer and died one last death.

TP allows for more of a challenge though, wearing the zora armor with 3 hearts, no shield and only using the Ordon Sword is a major challenge. TWW doesn't allow for that kind of tweaking...and even if it did the only thing that could take out 3 hearts in one hit was a big black pig. =/ I don't think it's even worth arguing about TP and TWW difficulty...I've had an enemy take out 8 of my hearts in one hit and kill me, then a fairy healed me and Link lost an additional 5 hearts after getting 8 back. I was freakin' ticked. D=
... as is, I used no fairies or potions. How you have these problems... I don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abyss Master View Post
There were always only two at a time, and these enemies wouldn't appear if you were standing on something like a road. Plus night lasts for like, two minutes. That is hardly accountable.
People used the roads?

Quote:
No, it wasn't - that's true. There were some holes to go down and the Peahats/Big Poes.

It wasn't complicated, but it certainly was dull.
Dull? I just found it too fast to be dull, I mean it's like what a 3 minute roll?

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It would take about as much time to run across Hyrule Field in OoT as it would to run across Eldin Field in TP.
*thinking back on that carry the water thing* That felt like a bit longer. Granted there's the whole avoiding enemies, but even so it felt slower than OoT.

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So yeah, it would take some time. And it would be boring.
Well, I'll concede to you on this one.

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But here's the thing; you can only acquire said warp points halfway through the game, and there are only six warp points all across Hyrule, and only with the Water Temple are you not required to go to the same area as the particular warp song would bring you to. It's very much the same with TP, where you have to defeat a bunch of shadow creatures before you can use a warp point, but at least the wolf is a somewhat fast runner and you're given Epona to use early in the game.
The thing is getting to the dungeons was part of their adventure. It's just that few people like doing the same puzzles over and over -eg Phantom Hourglass, which I loved- hence the warps allowing you to make that skip.

As for the TP warps, you couldn't always access them. You needed to be able to control wolf form which was about a third of the way through. I will concede that Epona was a good choice on nintendo's part to have from the start, but that's just because the overworld was so huge.

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No, it really isn't.
Alright, but even so TWW was a very original game, whereas TP was by definition safe.

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Not really. Depends on what you mean. Obviously the story becomes simpler to follow and there's a straightforward progress from temple to temple ala OoT, but the temples themselves were great.
The dungeons becoming more linear and stepping down from easy to short and easy, the story goes to blah, and so on.

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Ganondorf was confirmed to be in the game quite a while before launch. I know this because I got excited about what possible role they could put him in.
I remember when the first pic of him was added to the hype thread. He wasn't confirmed til much later. Much like how shiek was also created for a character model, but never used -hence brawl-

He was actually confirmed closer to a couple months prior to the final release.

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There's also the fact that Zant makes a pretty significant reference to him right after Lakebed, and the flashback with the Sages further pushes Ganondorf up.
That was after lakebed? Thought that was just the crazy insane millions of ilias and such. They showed Ganondorf at that point too?

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I've been of the mindset that Ganondorf wasn't as fledged out as he could have been in TP, but I don't believe that he was a mere last-minute addition.
Well that's something. I'd say Zant would have been better as a solo act.

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Uhm, incorrect. I mean, what? o.O
The diamond in the rough.

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Sounds more like faults with your own game than actual flaws in gameplay, because I've never had camera problems (playing the GC version, meaning I can adjust the camera as I like) and I've not had any problems with the iron boots.
AM I THE ONLY ONE WITH THE WII VERSION!?!?!?!

Quote:
Oh do tell who was copied and pasted here.
She's the generic character who starts out selfish but over time comes to be more friendly and ends up a total good guy. She's an arctype who I honestly believe was not that well presented. It just seemed like there was this point in the game where she had a switch flipped from I'm a greedy little imp to I'm a little nice imp

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And do tell what we were promised, because I can't recall.
Let's see...
60 hours of gameplay minimum
A heavy animal influence
A heavy western style influence
Expansive open environments -ie not walled sections-
Relationships as deep as MM
A game that would surpass OoT as the best
Remember the video of that huge open Hyrule Town market?
Nintendo made the whole wolf thing seem a whole lot more fleshed out.
A darker story -as is, it pales in comparison to MM or even TWW story wise- It just went with darker artwork which is so popular anymore

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Oh dear lord shoot me now, you can't be serious.

That's just... ahahahahah, that's funny.
Admittedly exaggerated, but the Water Temple is going to remain the hardest temple in Zelda history for a while.

It's called Great Bay, and it honestly isn't difficult at all, if only misleading at times.

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Hello Stone Mask.
Hello I don't use cheap tricks as they make the game so much less fun.

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What's with you and minigames? Are they honestly that difficult for you?
Swamp shooting gallery, get the perfect score, rather hard.

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A quest that requires you to carry out all other sidequests just to gather all the masks and then go through 4 tedious minidungeons in order to get a mask that will effectively make every boss battle a joke? I fail to see the difficulty.
I spent quite a long time in the mini dungeons. Those were hard. Especially the goron one. Then theres the whole getting all the other masks which is a rather large task.

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The hardest part in this sidequest was having patience enough to carry the entirety of it through.
There are so many areas where you can fail. I messed up quite a bit on it.

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wat
TWW had harder dungeons than TP. Both very easy, but TP like I say takes the cake and feeds to you pre chewed.

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That's cool - I just hope to god you're not serious about the minigames, because if so then Tigerboi is right - you must suck at videogames. Because it's nigh impossible to imagine.
Admitted exaggeration to prove a point.

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Uhm, that OoT was an easy game?
That's not what you were supposed to get out of that. It's that sort of thing that has been plaguing Zelda and is most evident in TP.

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At least you got taken down. That has yet to happen to me in MM (though Gyorg or whatever his name was got close).
May I say it was after the rest of the cave of ordeals?

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TP's too :3
Those were worth looking at. Quite honestly I would have felt safe sending in Malo to destroy those things.

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Holy ****e.

You strange, masochistic person who wants to die in a video game.
I'd rather die than not be challenged. Doing things I can do with relative ease isn't exactly my idea of fun. I'd rather be able to fail and try again, thus expanding time and giving me a sense of accomplishment.

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Because they're legit complaints, hurr hurr.
i c wut u did thar hurr hurr

But seriously, I feel the others all delivered spectacularly in atleast one area that made up for another glaring flaw. TWW was easy but had a great story and so on.

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And neither was TP.

Best Zelda game, however, is a different matter. And Ocarina of Time was hyped up to be the best Zelda yet before it was released too, so...
OoT is still considered probably the best game ever, not just Zelda.

Quote:
TP was announced 2.5 years before release. It's original release date was meant to be in 2005. Yes, it was delayed, but don't exaggerate so goddamn much, it's slowly becoming a deadly sin of the Zelda fan community.
We still waited too long for what we got.

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Well damn guys, I suppose we're no longer Zelda fans.
Ok

[quote]Your own brain told you that. I mean, there's one thing believing what Reggie is saying when this comes up: "TP is gonna be the best Zelda ever, I think." but it's a different thing to believe the common fanboy going "THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST THING EVER!!!".[quote]

Pre TP, every Zelda fan would agree that objectively that OoT was the best of our series. It was a uniting banner. As OoT has faded due to the passage of time, the unity and activity among Zelda fans has died. TP was supposed to be the new banner, but it failed.

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Oh dear lord we finally got to that word.
Yeah I went there.

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Play the GC version.
I've been considering selling the wii version admittedly.

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Or get a copy of the game that isn't effed up.
I did get it at release.

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No they f***ing don't. e_e
Plain and simple I enjoy a challenge.

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Mario Kart is popular because of the multiplayer, not because the AI will buttrape you. Imagine a single-player only Mario Kart. It would be the biggest disaster you could possibly fathom. Multiplayer is the sole reason behind the popularity of Mario Kart.
Point taken.
  #116 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-20-2009, 07:28 PM
My Melo My Melo is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

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Originally Posted by Talhoffer View Post
Plain and simple I enjoy a challenge.
I enjoy a good challenge. But c'mon, cheap? You can't be serious.
So you'd have fun fighting a boss that would give you absolutely no indication of when he was going to attack you before you even have an opportunity to block or dodge, and there would be nothing you could do about it?

Something that is cheap isn't exactly based on any skill. A game can be and hard with out having to be cheap. Cheap makes a game hard for all the wrong reasons.


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Last Edited by My Melo; 09-20-2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason:
  #117 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-21-2009, 01:18 PM
Abyss Master Abyss Master is a male Norway Abyss Master is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

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Originally Posted by Talhoffer View Post
People used the roads?
Take that for what it's worth, but either way - you can go through the game entirely and not once encounter the Stalchildren.

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Dull? I just found it too fast to be dull, I mean it's like what a 3 minute roll?
Therefore, dull. You wouldn't want to spend one second more in that field than necessary.

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*thinking back on that carry the water thing* That felt like a bit longer. Granted there's the whole avoiding enemies, but even so it felt slower than OoT.
I made a check yesterday, running across both fields. It took a little longer getting across Eldin Field, but not a whole lot.

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The thing is getting to the dungeons was part of their adventure. It's just that few people like doing the same puzzles over and over -eg Phantom Hourglass, which I loved- hence the warps allowing you to make that skip.
The Desert Colossus and Graveyard warp points are the only ones I can think of that fit such a category. Sacred Forest Meadow too if you don't feel like going through the maze.

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As for the TP warps, you couldn't always access them. You needed to be able to control wolf form which was about a third of the way through.
The wolf was accessible after 3 dungeons, and you already had several warp points spread across Hyrule by then.

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I will concede that Epona was a good choice on nintendo's part to have from the start, but that's just because the overworld was so huge.
So they created a big world, and they gave you an ideal way of crossing said world so to not make it drawn-out and boring. Sounds like a winning tactic to me.

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The dungeons becoming more linear and stepping down from easy to short and easy,
Snowpeak is the goddamn hardest dungeon in the game - don't believe me? Compare the miniboss and boss to the rest of the dungeons, then compare the enemies.

And the City in the Sky is miles ahead of the likes of the Forest Temple.

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That was after lakebed? Thought that was just the crazy insane millions of ilias and such. They showed Ganondorf at that point too?
I recommend you go back and play the game. The cutscene with the falling Ilias play after you restore the Lanayru Province from twilight, not after Lakebed. After Lakebed is when Zant appears and kicks Link's ***.

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AM I THE ONLY ONE WITH THE WII VERSION!?!?!?!
I may be forced to buy the Wii version myself, as my GC memory card is gone.

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She's the generic character who starts out selfish but over time comes to be more friendly and ends up a total good guy. She's an arctype who I honestly believe was not that well presented. It just seemed like there was this point in the game where she had a switch flipped from I'm a greedy little imp to I'm a little nice imp.
I felt that Midna underwent a gradual transformation in character through the game (starting out as snide and selfish, warms up a little to Link as evidenced by her apologizing to him after defeating Morpheel), until she is saved by Zelda who gives up her own being, which is obviously a big reason behind Midna's change of perspective.

It's important to note how she reacts to certain people around her, as that is how her character development shines through. She doesn't seem to care about the hardships the Fused Shadow causes the Gorons and how the dark artifact turns Darbus into a fiery monster, yet later on we see her pity Yeta for being put under the control of the mirror shard in Snowpeak. She has evidently learned - just as Link has learned - how power corrupts.

I think it's wrong to stamp the "nice little imp" sign on Midna just like that. She does undergo a radical change of heart, indeed, but if we look upon the reunion with Zant at the Palace of Twilight, it's easy to see her snide attitude return as she mocks the Usurper King on his throne. She also flies into a fit of rage when she learns that defeating Zant did not grant her her true form back, and she ends up killing him when he provokes her with his final words.

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Let's see...
60 hours of gameplay minimum
Check.

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A heavy animal influence
wat

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A heavy western style influence
Check, though I don't see why that would be so hotly anticipated.

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Expansive open environments -ie not walled sections-
You honestly overestimated the Gamecube if you expected this alongside TP's massive overworld.

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Relationships as deep as MM
What gave you this idea?

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Remember the video of that huge open Hyrule Town market?
It's in-game.

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Nintendo made the whole wolf thing seem a whole lot more fleshed out.
Not really. I'm surprised at how far they managed to take the wolf both storywise and gameplay-wise.

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A darker story -as is, it pales in comparison to MM or even TWW story wise-
MM, arguably. WW, no.

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It just went with darker artwork which is so popular anymore
Look at TP's style. That is not "darker" artwork.

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Admittedly exaggerated, but the Water Temple is going to remain the hardest temple in Zelda history for a while.
It really isn't difficult. Honestly.

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Hello I don't use cheap tricks as they make the game so much less fun.
Does that make it invalid? No, I think you will find that the Stone Mask makes the Pirate's Fortress pretty much a straightforward place to get through. And honestly, I loathe sneaking in video games, so that was a welcome addition to me.

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Swamp shooting gallery, get the perfect score, rather hard.
But so is getting a perfect score in the STAR minigame (if there is such a thing as a perfect score in that minigame).

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I spent quite a long time in the mini dungeons. Those were hard. Especially the goron one.
The Goron dungeon was the only difficult one, as far as I'm concerned.

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Then theres the whole getting all the other masks which is a rather large task.
Long task, I'd say. And long does not equal challenge.

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There are so many areas where you can fail. I messed up quite a bit on it.
On the first playthrough, it's hard to follow. Indeed. However, it's not challenging in a good kind of way. You'll always get one step further. But when you f*** up, you are forced to start all over again if you want to complete the quest. And as you said, there are so many areas where you can fail. So say hello to the possibly most frustrating sidequest in Zelda history.

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TWW had harder dungeons than TP.
Am sorry but no.

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Both very easy, but TP like I say takes the cake and feeds to you pre chewed.
Then you must be really good at TP or really bad at WW. Or you're exaggerating again. I can believe that WW has some dungeons tht are harder than TP's, but I'd be damned before I believed that all of them were.

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That's not what you were supposed to get out of that.
But that's what the video is about!

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It's that sort of thing that has been plaguing Zelda and is most evident in TP.
Obvious weak points? Yeah. However, the execution is not as obvious. Compare OoT and TP's first bosses, for example. Which one took you longer to figure out? If you answered Gohma, then... uhm... okay.

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May I say it was after the rest of the cave of ordeals?
Well, obviously you can only encounter three Darknuts at a time in the Cave of Ordeals. Didn't bring a fairy? Tough luck. If TP is so easy then the Cave of Ordeals honestly shouldn't be that difficult to get through in comparison to other Zeldas.

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Those were worth looking at. Quite honestly I would have felt safe sending in Malo to destroy those things.
Looking at Morpheel, Stallord, Blizzeta, Argorok and Ganondorf, I can say with a hand on my heart, "that's nonsense".

Or yet another exaggeration.

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I'd rather die than not be challenged.
Then you got your priorities mixed up, mate.

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Doing things I can do with relative ease isn't exactly my idea of fun.
That's fine.

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I'd rather be able to fail and try again, thus expanding time and giving me a sense of accomplishment.
That's true.

I did experience challenges in TP (taking on the Snowpeak miniboss, for example), just like I did in OoT and MM on my first playthroughs. But if your idea of challenge is what it's made out to be, then I can't really say I'm challenged by any game besides Modern Warfare on the 360, and that's because of all the f***ing grenades.

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OoT is still considered probably the best game ever, not just Zelda.
OoT was not hyped up to be the best game ever, though. And neither was TP.

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We still waited too long for what we got.
Yeah, but use the correct numbers next time.


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Pre TP, every Zelda fan would agree that objectively that OoT was the best of our series.
Err, no? Have you not seen the massive MM love that has somehow made its roots in these forums?

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TP was supposed to be the new banner, but it failed.
No, what TP was supposed to be was a game that would appeal to those who felt turned off by Wind Waker. That was quite a bit of people.

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I've been considering selling the wii version admittedly.
I heartily recommend the GC version, if the Wii version bugs you too much and you don't really find the motion controls worth it.
  #118 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tigerboi
Here's a fun fact. I'm playing all the 3D zeldas over again. The N64 zelda's, mostly OoT, has some of the craziest and most random hit boxes ever. I hit a stalfos in the back last night and it got blocked.

Also, you can't lock onto enemies that are behind you in the N64 games which is really annoying since I got used to it in the gamecube games.
Dude, Zelda fans don't care about this kind of stuff.

They don't grasp the fact that the developers who make the games are creating them from the perspective of a game designer first, and will treat their product as a video game before an emotional experience that Zelda fans generally view the titles as strictly.

So, even if the newer titles are just so much more polished and well-designed, they won't even recognize that as a positive trait.

Or they'll just ***** about linearity. Which is another double standard for this crap fanbase.
  #119 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-21-2009, 01:58 PM
Tigerboi Tigerboi is a male United States Tigerboi is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

I never thought OoT was the best Zelda game and I still don't see why people do. I don't care about story, but seriously, compared to the other 3-d zelda games OoT doesn't have any story telling at all.

I could make an entire rant about how flawed OoT is and even WAS at the time.

But the general complaints about games in this franchise are just silly. Talhoffer is complaining about travel times in Zelda. IN ZELDA. EVERY GAME IN THE SERIES HAS THE ISSUE IF YOU CONSIDER IT AN ISSUE AT ALL BECASE THE DESIGN AS INTENTIONAL.
  #120 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 09-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Alex Alex is a male Alex is offline
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Re: What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

I always liked OoT's story, it worked. I almost always felt compelled to continue.

Edit: For those who haven't figured this out yet, I grew up on Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time. I'm a fanboy.
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Last Edited by Alex; 09-21-2009 at 04:21 PM. Reason:
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