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  #121 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-29-2012, 07:35 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

You can't do the Fire Temple first and the Water Temple second; you need the Bow to complete the Water Temple.

And I don't know of any way to go through the Haunted Wasteland without the Lens of Truth, save for a glitch, so you'd definitely have to go to Kakariko and complete the Bottom of the Well.
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  #122 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Nensense Nensense is a male United States Nensense is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
You can't do the Fire Temple first and the Water Temple second; you need the Bow to complete the Water Temple.

And I don't know of any way to go through the Haunted Wasteland without the Lens of Truth, save for a glitch, so you'd definitely have to go to Kakariko and complete the Bottom of the Well.
Okay fine, well you can do Fire first, then forest, then water, for forest first, then water, then spirit etc.

And you can with the longshot. Their are wooden poles you can hook to.
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  #123 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-29-2012, 08:06 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

There are no poles in the second half of the Haunted Wasteland until the very end of the Poe guide section, which by that point you're already pretty much at the Desert Colossus. There's nothing to Longshot onto at that stone hut in the middle of the desert. In order to go anywhere further, you need to talk to the Poe, and the only way to do that is with the Lens of Truth. There's some random crate in the middle of the Wasteland about halfway through the trail that the Poe leads you along, but that's it.

The only way to get through it all without the Lens of Truth is through a glitch.
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  #124 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 02-29-2012, 08:55 PM
Nensense Nensense is a male United States Nensense is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
There are no poles in the second half of the Haunted Wasteland until the very end of the Poe guide section, which by that point you're already pretty much at the Desert Colossus. There's nothing to Longshot onto at that stone hut in the middle of the desert. In order to go anywhere further, you need to talk to the Poe, and the only way to do that is with the Lens of Truth. There's some random crate in the middle of the Wasteland about halfway through the trail that the Poe leads you along, but that's it.

The only way to get through it all without the Lens of Truth is through a glitch.
Well you aren't looking hard enough because I've done it on two playthroughs.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:02 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

You didn't.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:20 PM
EternaLegend EternaLegend is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

We're getting a little wee-off topic here.

Remember to stay on the topic of the thread. Thanks.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:31 PM
Kuya Kuya is a male Philippines Kuya is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I wasn't talking about Medallions. I was talking about going through well over half of the Forest, Fire and Water Temples to acquire to their respective items which are necessary in completing all of the Shadow and Spirit Temples.
Well that's simply not true. As I have said before, you do not need the Megaton Hammer in the Spirit Temple, so you can do that after the Forest and Water Temples.

Quote:
I specifically said "pre dungeon content and the dungeon itself". You mentioning how you can do the pre dungeon content out of order doesn't apply to when I said that you typically can't do a full sequence, which involves the pre-dungeon content and the dungeon itself, out of order.
That's not true either. You can do the Ice Cavern and the Water Temple after beating the Forest Temple. You can rescue the Carpenters and beat the Spirit Temple after beating the Forest and Water Temples.

Quote:
Not terribly. If it were, you'd have 120 different options in completing the full sequences. Ocarina of Time offers 5, maybe 6.
TP offers 0, IIRC. Plus, not even LoZ had that many, but that was pretty much the most non-linear Zelda game.

And 5 or 6 different options is still pretty good, IMO.

Quote:
That's better than 1, but not enough that it logically satisfies the fans who are strangely hot for 'nonlinearity' in video games.
It may be not enough for some people, but it's pretty satisfying for many others from what I've seen.

Quote:
Starting to help out one character, and then heading off and helping another before either is finished, or getting 60% through a dungeon and leaving the rest behind to do the same in another dungeon with intent to return at some point...

Yeah, that's disjointed.
Uh...yeah, all of the orders I listed didn't have any of that. You could finish them 100% without any interruptions... Believe me, I've done it many times.

As for helping out one character, when does that ever happen if your completing the game out of order? IIRC, that never happens.

Quote:
I still don't see why it's even worth a complaint. What's so bad about a single dungeon not offering an item in the way that every other dungeon previously had?
It was disappointing and it felt like I wasted my time. How is that not a worthy complaint?

Quote:
Okay. But then you should hate the way that the Mirror Shield is acquired.
I don't see why since the shield adds an ability, yet removes another ability. That way, it's balanced.

---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
There are no poles in the second half of the Haunted Wasteland until the very end of the Poe guide section, which by that point you're already pretty much at the Desert Colossus. There's nothing to Longshot onto at that stone hut in the middle of the desert. In order to go anywhere further, you need to talk to the Poe, and the only way to do that is with the Lens of Truth. There's some random crate in the middle of the Wasteland about halfway through the trail that the Poe leads you along, but that's it.

The only way to get through it all without the Lens of Truth is through a glitch.
There are blind people who have beaten OoT. And there's a guy who's currently doing it right now, so it's not really impossible.

But it is really, really hard.
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  #128 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-01-2012, 09:34 PM
AgentNimble AgentNimble is a male AgentNimble is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks View Post
There are blind people who have beaten OoT. And there's a guy who's currently doing it right now, so it's not really impossible.

But it is really, really hard.
I'm not sure what that has to do with what Jeff said.

On-topic: While OoT is somewhat non-linear, people exaggerate exactly HOW non-linear it is. It's actually kinda straightforward. I wouldn't argue against someone saying MM is non-linear, but OoT is more linear than MM.
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  #129 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-01-2012, 09:47 PM
Kuya Kuya is a male Philippines Kuya is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Swift_Knight View Post
I'm not sure what that has to do with what Jeff said.
He said there is no way to get through the wastelands without the Lens of Truth. If blind people can do it, then it's very possible to do it without the Lens of Truth.

Quote:
On-topic: While OoT is somewhat non-linear, people exaggerate exactly HOW non-linear it is. It's actually kinda straightforward. I wouldn't argue against someone saying MM is non-linear, but OoT is more linear than MM.
lolwut.

Right when you start MM, you can't even get outside of Clocktown. After that, you aren't able to get into the mountains unless you beat the Woodfall Temple. After that, you aren't able to get into the Great Bay unless you beat the Snowhead Temple. After that, you aren't able to get into Ikana Canyon unless you beat the Great Bay Temple.

I have no idea where you got the idea that MM is more non-linear than OoT.

And I have never seen anyone exaggerate OoT's non-linearity. People usually say it's the most non-linear 3D Zelda, which is a fact you cannot argue with.
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  #130 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-01-2012, 10:16 PM
AgentNimble AgentNimble is a male AgentNimble is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks View Post
Right when you start MM, you can't even get outside of Clocktown. After that, you aren't able to get into the mountains unless you beat the Woodfall Temple. After that, you aren't able to get into the Great Bay unless you beat the Snowhead Temple. After that, you aren't able to get into Ikana Canyon unless you beat the Great Bay Temple.

I have no idea where you got the idea that MM is more non-linear than OoT.

And I have never seen anyone exaggerate OoT's non-linearity. People usually say it's the most non-linear 3D Zelda, which is a fact you cannot argue with.
Thought you meant just non-linear in general.

In any case, can't you just get the arrows and then go to Snowhead without actually beating Woodfall? I hear you can also do some sequence breaking in MM.
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  #131 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-01-2012, 10:34 PM
Kuya Kuya is a male Philippines Kuya is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

Yes, you can do half of the dungeon and leave. But personally, I don't count that as non-linearity.

And that still doesn't make it more non-linear than OoT, since you can finish temples out of order with no interruptions.
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  #132 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2012, 01:08 AM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks View Post
Well that's simply not true. As I have said before, you do not need the Megaton Hammer in the Spirit Temple, so you can do that after the Forest and Water Temples.
No, but you need to acquire the Lens of Truth to even get to the Spirit Temple in the first place. And, I'm not 100% positive on this, but I believe there's a Silver rupee room early on in the Adult portion of the Spirit Temple that requires you to use the Hover Boots.

Quote:
That's not true either. You can do the Ice Cavern and the Water Temple after beating the Forest Temple. You can rescue the Carpenters and beat the Spirit Temple after beating the Forest and Water Temples.
Seeing as how the latter is not true without the Lens of Truth and, probably, the Hover Boots, you providing one example perfectly aligns with my use of the word "typically" before.

Quote:
TP offers 0, IIRC. Plus, not even LoZ had that many, but that was pretty much the most non-linear Zelda game.

And 5 or 6 different options is still pretty good, IMO.
Twilight Princess technically offers 1, but that's besides the point.

Quote:
It may be not enough for some people, but it's pretty satisfying for many others from what I've seen.
Mostly the same fans that have a serious skewed view of nonlinearty, and that I don't have a very high regard for in the first place. But that also is besides the point.

Quote:
As for helping out one character, when does that ever happen if your completing the game out of order? IIRC, that never happens.
On most attempts save for the few where it doesn't happen, and were extremley unlikely to be stumbled upon your first couple of playthroughs (before you had 10+ years and hindsight to know how you could break sequence)

Quote:
It was disappointing and it felt like I wasted my time. How is that not a worthy complaint?
Why was it a waste of time? Completing that half of the dungeon to get closer to the end and acquire the last piece of the Twilight Mirror wasn't worth your time? The puzzles and gameplay before it weren't worth your time?

Quote:
I don't see why since the shield adds an ability, yet removes another ability. That way, it's balanced.

The Double Clawshot adds a much more utilized ability, without removing anything. You should like it a lot more.

Quote:
There are blind people who have beaten OoT. And there's a guy who's currently doing it right now, so it's not really impossible.

But it is really, really hard.
The only way to get to the Desert Colossus the first time is to follow the Poe guide. In order to begin that trek, you need to talk to him with the Lens of Truth.

You need the Lens of Truth to get to the Spirit Temple.

For fans who apparently knows so much about the sequences in Ocarina of Time, it astounds me that you lot can't wrap your heads around this very simple fact.
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  #133 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2012, 02:49 AM
Kuya Kuya is a male Philippines Kuya is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
No, but you need to acquire the Lens of Truth to even get to the Spirit Temple in the first place. And, I'm not 100% positive on this, but I believe there's a Silver rupee room early on in the Adult portion of the Spirit Temple that requires you to use the Hover Boots.
Yeah, you need the Lens of Truth. I don't see how that matters, though.

And no you do not need the hover boots to get the silver rupee. You can easily get it using the Longshot.

Quote:
Seeing as how the latter is not true without the Lens of Truth and, probably, the Hover Boots, you providing one example perfectly aligns with my use of the word "typically" before.
And by "typically", you mean one, right? Because that's the only one where you can't finish a whole sequence, pre-dungeon and the dungeon itself, out of order.

EDIT: I just contradicted myself. I showed a video with some guy getting to the Spirit Temple without the Lens of Truth. So I guess you can finish the Shadow sequence after the Spirit Temple. But that's really hard, so I guess that doesn't quite count.

Quote:
Mostly the same fans that have a serious skewed view of nonlinearty, and that I don't have a very high regard for in the first place. But that also is besides the point.
You still can't ignore the fact that it is the most non-linear 3D Zelda game.

Besides, the order of dungeons isn't the only thing that makes OoT non-linear. As I have said before, you are able to visit most of Hyrule right after you visit Zelda (which isn't even that far into the game). I don't know what your view of non-linear is, but I mean being able to visit almost all the areas in the beginning of the game is pretty non-linear.

Quote:
On most attempts save for the few where it doesn't happen, and were extremley unlikely to be stumbled upon your first couple of playthroughs (before you had 10+ years and hindsight to know how you could break sequence)
Like...?

Quote:
Why was it a waste of time? Completing that half of the dungeon to get closer to the end and acquire the last piece of the Twilight Mirror wasn't worth your time? The puzzles and gameplay before it weren't worth your time?
Considering how much I hated that temple, yes. If the dungeon's item was something else, it wouldn't have been as bad.

Quote:
The Double Clawshot adds a much more utilized ability, without removing anything. You should like it a lot more.
Not really. Since the Spirit Temple had a lot of hints pointing out that there must be some item that can direct light, the Mirror Shield wasn't that big of a disappointment.

With the City in the Sky, I thought I'd get some cool item that would let me...I dunno, jump or fly for a bit, maybe? The Double Clawshot was just more disappointing.

Quote:
The only way to get to the Desert Colossus the first time is to follow the Poe guide. In order to begin that trek, you need to talk to him with the Lens of Truth.

You need the Lens of Truth to get to the Spirit Temple.

For fans who apparently knows so much about the sequences in Ocarina of Time, it astounds me that you lot can't wrap your heads around this very simple fact.
Maybe because this "fact" isn't a fact at all. It's very possible to get through the Haunted Wasteland without the Lens of Truth (and without any glitches). Not saying it's easy, though.

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  #134 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2012, 10:08 PM
Jeff Jeff is a male United States Jeff is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks View Post
Yeah, you need the Lens of Truth. I don't see how that matters, though.

And no you do not need the hover boots to get the silver rupee. You can easily get it using the Longshot.
Requiring the Lens of Truth disrupts the possibility of completing a full sequence out of order. In this case, you can't complete the quest throught the desert unilt you've completed the Bottom of the Well.

As for this topic on the Silver Rupee, what do you Longshot onto? I just checked the room myself- there's no target to latch onto, and the Lens of Truth even uncovers nothing in the room.

Quote:
You still can't ignore the fact that it is the most non-linear 3D Zelda game.
This is true. But that doesn't mean it's a very nonlinear game.

Quote:
Besides, the order of dungeons isn't the only thing that makes OoT non-linear. As I have said before, you are able to visit most of Hyrule right after you visit Zelda (which isn't even that far into the game). I don't know what your view of non-linear is, but I mean being able to visit almost all the areas in the beginning of the game is pretty non-linear.
Every other Zelda eventually opens up to a wealth of space and content- that it takes a couple extra hours to do so doesn't make them less nonlinear.

I mentioned this point in another thread, but it's easy to say 10+ years later that it takes no time at all to get to Zelda in Ocarina of Time. Back in the day, when we were playing it for the first time ever, I'd suspect that the vast majority of gamers needed a couple of hours before they set off for Death Mountain.

Quote:
Like...?
Like what? Examples of not doing a full sequence out of order?

For example, trying to do the Water, Shadow or Spirit Temples first. Or any of those second without the Forest Temple being first. Or the Spirit Temple coming before the Shadow Temple etc.

Quote:
Considering how much I hated that temple, yes. If the dungeon's item was something else, it wouldn't have been as bad.
The dungeon's item made for some of the best platforming the series has ever seen.

Quote:
Not really. Since the Spirit Temple had a lot of hints pointing out that there must be some item that can direct light, the Mirror Shield wasn't that big of a disappointment.

With the City in the Sky, I thought I'd get some cool item that would let me...I dunno, jump or fly for a bit, maybe? The Double Clawshot was just more disappointing.
Cry more. You sound like a little kid who didn't get their way, not someone objectively viewing a video game.

Why weren't you disappointed that the Spirit Temple's item wasn't a magical stone that gave off rays of light? And you could aim it yourself like the Bow or Longshot to burn away barriers or attack enemies? Or it could give off a flash to illuminate an entire room, or blind enemies?

That'd be so much cooler than a new Shield, the Spirit Temple sucked because it didn't do something like that!!

Quote:
Maybe because this "fact" isn't a fact at all. It's very possible to get through the Haunted Wasteland without the Lens of Truth (and without any glitches). Not saying it's easy, though.

That's a glitch. Ocarina of Time 3D has a whole new collection of them.

You can't get through the Haunted Wasteland sans the Lens of Truth without a glitch. There's no mentioning of it being possible in any game guide, no video of it being done on the original iteration of the game. No one's ever proven it. If you have to bend over backwards and screw with the functionality of the game design to achieve something, it's a glitch.

Keep trying, though.
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Last Edited by Jeff; 03-03-2012 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #135 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2012, 10:47 PM
Kuya Kuya is a male Philippines Kuya is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Requiring the Lens of Truth disrupts the possibility of completing a full sequence out of order. In this case, you can't complete the quest throught the desert unilt you've completed the Bottom of the Well.

As for this topic on the Silver Rupee, what do you Longshot onto? I just checked the room myself- there's no target to latch onto, and the Lens of Truth even uncovers nothing in the room.
Here's a picture for you:



You can latch onto the ledge. If you still don't believe me:



I completed the Spirit Temple before the Shadow Temple. No glitches. Bear in mind that the dungeons in OoT3D and the original version are no different.

And if you still don't believe me, then you're just being stubborn and ignorant.

Quote:
This is true. But that doesn't mean it's a very nonlinear game.
So being able to complete the dungeons in almost any order and being able to visit almost all the areas in Hyrule near the beginning of the game isn't very non-linear? Okay.

Quote:
Every other Zelda eventually opens up to a wealth of space and content- that it takes a couple extra hours to do so doesn't make them less nonlinear.
If it eventually opens up to a wealth of space in the middle of the game or later on, yes it does make them less non-linear. Almost all adventure games eventually let you visit every single area.

Quote:
I mentioned this point in another thread, but it's easy to say 10+ years later that it takes no time at all to get to Zelda in Ocarina of Time. Back in the day, when we were playing it for the first time ever, I'd suspect that the vast majority of gamers needed a couple of hours before they set off for Death Mountain.
It's still very early on in the game.

Quote:
Like what? Examples of not doing a full sequence out of order?

For example, trying to do the Water, Shadow or Spirit Temples first. Or any of those second without the Forest Temple being first. Or the Spirit Temple coming before the Shadow Temple etc.
I was referring to this part:

Quote:
Starting to help out one character, and then heading off and helping another before either is finished,
Quote:
Cry more. You sound like a little kid who didn't get their way, not someone objectively viewing a video game.


Wow. So since I'm disappointed about something, I'm a little kid, right? Where's the logic in that?

I'm stopping right there because after seeing that, I know that arguing with you is not worth my time.

I feel really stupid for arguing with someone like you.
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  #136 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2012, 10:51 PM
EternaLegend EternaLegend is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

^ Guys, let's be more civil here okay?

We can discuss this easily without getting our collars heated.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:35 PM
Kikaider Antarctica Kikaider is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

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Originally Posted by Grooston View Post

So today (well technically yesterday now) I decided to replay Twilight Princess at about 6am. After a full day of playing and beating the game I've come to realize I really don't hate the game anymore as much as I had for so long. It's still by no means the best Zelda game but now I'm able to enjoy a lot more about it then I previously had.

Here are some things that I've reversed my opinions on and or liked in my newest playthrough
>Story no longer as terrible as I've been claiming it is. I do feel the characters are all 1 dimensional and cliched, the pacing had some big issues, and I still didn't care for Midna but I don't feel Gannondorf was just thrown in all of sudden like I used to. One thing I've realized was the lack of voice acting really kind of screwed the story a bit I think. Like for the longest time I was upset because I felt Zant was such a badass character and then suddenly went crazy over nothing. Although replaying it and reading the dialogue again it's clear that he's always been a bit manic with the way certain words were capatalized and/or said. Do I still wish that Zant was the main villain of the story? Yes. Do I think his turn to craziness still made no sense and Gannondorf just randomly hopped in? No. Although I do steal feel that the Master Sword and Princess Zelda were in the game for no reason but to cater to purist Zelda fans and it ♥♥♥♥ed the story up a bit by doing so. And while Ralis was nothing more than a less developed version of Komali, I did enjoy his story.

>Hidden Skills were awesome

>I really ♥♥♥♥ing loved the spinner, And I'm really sad still that it was only used for Arbiters Ground. Hell they could probably even make a full game (not Zelda related probably) with the Spinner gameplay.

>I've realized that while the game is lacking with sidequests a zelda game doesn't necessarily need loads of sidequests to be good (although I do wish that trade would have picked up after I did the Malo Mart bridge thing).

But now the stuff I still didn't care for but may not hate as much
>I still don't like any of those dungeons that much. None of them felt very compelling and as a whole way too easy.
>I still hate wolf links controls, I don't know how to describe it but he just didn't control well. And his spin attacks radius was too small to really be of any use
>I still don't like riding Epona, although she does control much better than in Majora's Mask. And not getting the whistle till late in the game was bull♥♥♥♥
>Tears of light is a huge pain in the ass
>Up until beating the first dungeon the game just draaags... I almost thought I would give up on the playthrough this morning because of it.
>Characters are still all 1 dimensional and cliched but I did find myself liking some of them a bit more this time.
>It still didn't have any sense of urgency to it which made it feel like a chore sometimes to force through.
>Hyrule Field still is way too big with not enough to do in it. I found myself warping the entire time.
>Still don't think the graphics fit the game or Zelda very well and used way too much brown and bloom. although I didn't hate it this time, I just kind of tolerated it. The character designs (with the exception of very few characters) were still ugly as ♥♥♥♥ though.

So as a whole Twilight Princess became a lot more enjoyable. It isn't saying too much as it's still my least favorite Zelda, but at least I see it as a good game now instead of a stain on the Zelda franchise.
I never thought you "despised" the game like some people on this site do. I thought that you just came a bit "below the belt" when it came to replies and opinions is all. At least here you are coming out with your opinions in a less threatening way then I got the impression from in previous posts. For that, I commend you. I agree that the game is very brown, there's nothing really to do in Hyrule Field, and that the Tears of Light parts are not too good.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:22 PM
Johnny Sokko Johnny Sokko is a male United States Johnny Sokko is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

I'll verify that you can beat Spirit without getting the Lens of Truth because I've done it before. You just have to memorize the path through the Gerudo Desert. I would not consider this another order of playing the game though because 1,) it's never necessary to go to the Bottom of the Well in the first place, and 2,) there is about a 0.0001% that somebody would figure their way through the Gerudo Desert by themselves without having done it before with the Lens of Truth.

Also, you don't need the hover boots or the longshot to go through the quicksand, you just need to backpeddle across the left corner of the sand and you'll be fast enough to pass through. But I would consider that a glitch and not really a "legitimate" way to go through.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:31 PM
Mahogany TeCotta Mahogany TeCotta is a male United States Mahogany TeCotta is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thegargoylevine View Post
^That's good news. I don't think any official Zelda game is a bad video game, and Twilight Princess is not an exception. It definitely has its highs (fishing hole) and lows (tears of light), but I thought it was an enjoyable experience overall. Darknuts in this game are one of my favorite enemies ever!
Spirit Tracks was just absolutely horrible.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:58 PM
Johnny Sokko Johnny Sokko is a male United States Johnny Sokko is offline
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Re: THIS JUST IN!; I don't hate TP anymore!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayenne Pepper View Post
Spirit Tracks was just absolutely horrible.
En tu opinion. I thought it was a good game with a lot of clever puzzles and a fantastic soundtrack. Most people bash it for lacking the exploration that a lot of other Zelda games have, but if the game wouldn't even get criticism like that if people weren't expecting exploration in the first place, like if the game was a new IP instead of a Zelda game.
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