What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Originally Posted by Double A

ALttP introduced puzzles to Zelda, did it not?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Double A

Because, in all honesty, TP just felt like another OoT. All it needed was one "gimmick".

Wolf form. Oh, what's that? You didn't like wolf form? Well, there goes your argument about gimmicks.

Originally Posted by Double A

What? Horse fighting? Unless you felt like goofing off in Hyrule Field, Horse Fighting wasn't used very often.

Isn't the point of Zelda to explore and stab bad guys? Why the hell wouldn't you feel like goofing off in Hyrule Field? I think you're completely missing the point about Zelda games.

Originally Posted by Double A

Besides, it's not like Horse Fighting was wildly original, you could shoot arrows from your horse in OoT/MM.

Lol yes, with horrible clunkiness and the complete lack of the ability to use your sword. All of which TP fixed, by the way. And stop being a ****ing hypocrite. You could wear masks in OoT. Why was it so original for you in MM? Because MM expanded on it and made it better. That's what TP did with every aspect of OoT. And yet you completely ignore that while singing the never ending praises of MM for doing the same thing.

Originally Posted by Double A

Spinner? I can count the times it was used outside of its dungeon on my hand.

Wow. You have eight fingers on one hand?

Two overworld puzzles
Two Temple of Time situations
Two City in the Sky situations
One Cave of Ordeals situation
One Hyrule Castle situation

Originally Posted by Double A

Dominion rod? Used a couple of times outside the ToT, most of them were for the same thing.

It requires creativity on the part of the player. It's used for one of the longest quests in the game, and I often put it to go use by using it to get to the top of the Bridge of Eldin and killing the Bulblins from where they can't reach me. If you lack the creativity to put it to good use, whose fault is that? Hint: Not the game's.

Originally Posted by Double A

Ball-and-Chain? Used to smash ice. That's it. I'd say that it wasn't particularly effective in combat, but all the enemies took forever to decide to attack you could probably load the Ball-and-Chain, miss, load it again, and hit the enemy with it because they were so goddamn slow!

It completely replaced normal bombs. The Ball and Chain was for that reason very useful. You can also use it as an alternative to the Hero's Bow in the Beast Ganon fight. How's that for freedom and non-linearity?

Originally Posted by Double A

Double Clawshots? I'll give you this one because the DCs were easily my favourite item in all of the Zelda series. But they were still hardly used.

They were perhaps the most widely used puzzle items in the entire game.

Originally Posted by Double A

TP didn't introduce new gameplay (like its 3D predecessors). You could say that TP lacked originality in the gameplay department because of the low number of original puzzles that used these original items.

TP perfected gameplay and added motion controls. What would you rather have? A game with completely new but questionable innovation, or a game with traditional and perfect gameplay?

Originally Posted by Double A

You call them "gimmicks", I call them "shreds of originality".

Wolf form. Which you probably didn't like. So congratulations, you're now part of the unpleasable fanbase.

Originally Posted by Double A

ALttP introduced puzzles to Zelda, did it not?

Quoted because it is funny.

Originally Posted by Link92

Two overworld puzzles
Two Temple of Time situations
Two City in the Sky situations
One Cave of Ordeals situation
One Hyrule Castle situation
One hidden chest
One hidden grotto

Fix'd

The spinner is the Mirror shield of TP.

More like the Double Clawshot is the Mirror Shield of TP.

Because, as established, the Spinner is used plenty after the Arbiter's Grounds.

Off the top of my head, I think the double clawshot is used in the following areas outside of The City in the Sky:

- To get to a treasure chest in field just south of Hyrule castle
- To get to a Piece of Heart in Eldin Gorge
- To advance further in the Cave of Ordeals
- To progress through Hyrule Castle

There might be other areas as well that I've forgotten. It was the last dungeon item obtained in the game, much as the mirror shield was one of the last objects in Ocarina of Time, so having only four uses outside of its own Temple is understandable.

Trust me, I wasn't criticizing it or anything.

Oh sure. I really posted the uses of the double clawshot more for reference than anything, and to see if I could remember where it was used. I actually find it somewhat surprising that it was even used four times outside of the City in the Sky, given how late in the game it was obtained. To my knowledge, I don't think the mirror shield in Ocarina of Time was used that many times outside of the Spirit Temple.

...I don't think it's the lack of use that upsets people who need to nitpick at TP's stuff. It's more like, we enjoy items that can be used on anything. The Spinner can only be used for special situations same goes for the double claw shot. But I use the ball and chain for almost everything and anyhing because it doesn't require any rails or fences.

For instance I hated the grappling hook...well mostly because you had to watch the same freakin' scene of the rope going around a branch every freakin' time you threw it...but also because it didn't have much use outside that. Many years later realized you could steal things with the grapple hook and now I always have it out. =/

Every Zelda has that one item that I obsess over. in TWW it's the boomerang, in TP it's the arrows and in OoT it's the longshot...love the longshot, it was too awesome.

^ That's understandable as well, the items that could be used in several situations have also been my favourites. For instance, I think my least favourite item in Ocarina of Time would be the Ice Arrows, since I don't think they ever needed to be used at any point (the Deku nuts at least were somewhat helpful in stunning Queen Gohma early in the game). Although - can you use the clawshot as a weapon to stun enemies in Twilight Princess as well?

(Oh, and I've just remembered another use for the double clawshot - the STAR game).

I don't get how anyone can hate this game.
It had Midna in it.

She has become a very popular character, and Twililight Princess had her story in it, which is one of the most developed stories in the Zelda series.

Yeahhh, but anyone who didn't like Midna, hated the story. I didn't grow to like her until AFTER she almost died from Zant. xD

In all honesty, Midna is probably my favourite character in the Zelda series. Her vivacity and her depth of character were like a breath of fresh air.

the longshot was gay.

Ok, not a in a sense in which it was useless, because it wasn't. But it's very concept is retarded. And it's other reason I hate OoT's water temple.

"You got a LONGER CHAIN FOR YOUR HOOKSHOT!"

"....Really? that's it?"

"YES!"

"Why exactly didn't you just make the hookshot have this kind of reach when I first got it, and instead designed the water temple around a totally new item?"

"because....uh....silence."


At least the double clawshots gave you a new function. Piece of **** longshot.

Don't you remember, Tiger? It gave you control over the water levels!!!

Which turned out to be lifeless and tedious after five minutes.

Actually, I didn't mind the hookshot being lengthened to become the longshot in the Water Temple. It was such a badly-needed upgrade, that the hookshot went from being barely used to one of the most important items in Ocarina of Time.

Suppose we had an entirely new item instead - what would you have substituted in the longshot's place?

They definitely could have put a new item in there instead of the longshot, but I love the Water Temple how it is... It's one of my favorite temples in the series. Not sure I'd want them re designing it with a new item in mind.

Originally Posted by Alex

They definitely could have put a new item in there instead of the longshot, but I love the Water Temple how it is... It's one of my favorite temples in the series. Not sure I'd want them re designing it with a new item in mind.

Same here - I think the (original, not Master Quest) Water Temple design is fine as it is.

I imagine that introducing a new item in place of the longshot probably would require a redesign - which I think is pretty unnecessary. However, that's entirely a matter of opinion.

I loved the Master Quest version, too.

Originally Posted by Alex

I loved the Master Quest version, too.

There was a strange flaw in the Master Quest version design...for some reason, I was able to skip most of the Temple to get to the boss.

Also, after I went back to explore the skipped rooms and to collect the extra Skulltula tokens, I swear I ended up with an additional key that didn't really serve any purpose.