What the hell do people have against Twilight Princess?

Regardless if Nintendo does something original/innovative or makes another OOT rehash in the next Zelda game, the rabid diehard fanboys will surely find SOMETHING to whine and complain about. Its a no win situation for Nintendo IMO.

Originally Posted by Mandrag

That makes it easier, then?

Jesus, dude, what is it with you and MY posts?

Ok, let me put it this way; when you get stuck in a game because you can't figure out what to do next, what are you essentially doing? You're doing NOTHING, right? There is no difficulty in SITTING THERE. You have all the time in the world to figure out what to do and there's nothing working agianst you in that kind of situation.

You're literately just poking around until something reacts. There's no difficulty in that. By your logic, a game is only hard as long as you don't reference the strategy guide. That's not really sound.

For example, I know people who own the guide for Ninja Gaiden and still haven't beaten it. Ninja Gaiden has puzzles too.

Originally Posted by double a

How about this?

People are hating on TP because it failed to bring anything wildly original to the franchise.

Because that is what Nintendo should be doing, the famously innovative company that they are.

This. Logic. KILLS ME.

I guess it's Nintendo's fault for drilling the retarded idea that innovation=fun to their fanbase. They say this, yet Mario Galaxy played exactly like mario 64 and was a****ing awesome game regardless.

Double A, think about it, innovation is bullcrap. It was all marketing propaganda that innovation somehow makes for a better game by default.

That and for the love of god, it was an entry to a pre-existing franchise. In order to be part of the franchise, it would have to PLAY LIKE A GAMES IN THAT FRANCHISE, don't you think?

I mean, did WW bring anything wildly original? Did MM? No.THE GAMES ALL MOSTLY PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME.

TP did it's job. it took an existing formula and made some technical improvements. It's called The Legend Of Zelda twilight princess for a reason.

Originality is superficial. it only needs enough elements/improvements to be it's own game that's enough.

And as said, even if they did something new, you would all still manage to find something stupid, like how a dungeon is colored, to complain about.

A game doesn't have to be innovative to bring something original to its franchise. Galaxy brought the gravity mechanic and the orchestrated music to Mario. OoT brought 3D gameplay to Zelda. MM brought the mask mechanic and the "time limit" to Zelda. WW brought a completely new artstyle to Zelda, as well as the sailing mechanic (which, admittedly, isn't that much duller than the other overworlds in past 3D Zeldas).

If Nintendo just makes improvements without adding something massively original, then the game effectively becomes "something we've done before", and is pretty boring to play through. This is what turned many people off of TP, because otherwise, TP wouldn't be so hated. I assure you, if TP brought anything half as original as OoT, MM or WW did, there wouldn't be nearly as many people hating on TP.

Think about it. Many people are beginning to praise MM and WW (and beginning to criticize OoT) because of what they brought to Zelda (and what OoT failed to being to Zelda: they're calling it a 3D ALttP).

Unfortunately, this is also why I believe Galaxy 2 will be seen as worse overall (but not by much) than Galaxy 1 by the general gaming public.

This is also why I believe that ZWii will not be criticized nearly as much as TP is being criticized now..

If Nintendo just makes improvements without adding something massively original, then the game effectively becomes "something we've done before", and is pretty boring to play through.

quite fitting that you put that in quotation marks because by that logic you can say that the first set of zelda's except zelda II were all the same game. they weren't, for the record.

By the same logic, mario 3 is mario world.

So you're pretty much saying that every zelda should have it's own gimmick. Because, honestly, that's all the masks were. That's all the wind in WW was.

Well, you know, TP had a few two. All of which were never done before in a Zelda game.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

quite fitting that you put that in quotation marks because by that logic you can say that the first set of zelda's except zelda II were all the same game. they weren't, for the record.

ALttP introduced puzzles to Zelda, did it not?

Original enough for me.

Not sure bout LA, maybe you could mention that it had a completely different setting and that it brought Zelda to a handheld.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

By the same logic, mario 3 is mario world.

... okay .

Unless Mario World introduced something original to the series, the people comparing SMB3 and SMW are justified (they're on two different consoles goddammit) and I have nothing to say.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

So you're pretty much saying that every zelda should have it's own gimmick. Because, honestly, that's all the masks were. That's all the wind in WW was.

Without these "gimmicks", every 3D Zelda would just be another OoT. I don't want to buy the same game over and over again.

Plus, if they gave the gameplay a bit of a makeover, as well as orchestrate the music and come up with an original story (involving Ganondorf as the antagonist, cuz I wanna ), I wouldn't see them as "gimmicks".

Because, in all honesty, TP just felt like another OoT. All it needed was one "gimmick".

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

Well, you know, TP had a few two. All of which were never done before in a Zelda game.

What? Horse fighting? Unless you felt like goofing off in Hyrule Field, Horse Fighting wasn't used very often. Besides, it's not like Horse Fighting was wildly original, you could shoot arrows from your horse in OoT/MM.

Spinner? I can count the times it was used outside of its dungeon on my hand.

Dominion rod? Used a couple of times outside the ToT, most of them were for the same thing.

Ball-and-Chain? Used to smash ice. That's it. I'd say that it wasn't particularly effective in combat, but all the enemies took forever to decide to attack you could probably load the Ball-and-Chain, miss, load it again, and hit the enemy with it because they were so goddamn slow!

Double Clawshots? I'll give you this one because the DCs were easily my favourite item in all of the Zelda series. But they were still hardly used.

And even then, these are just items. TP didn't introduce new gameplay (like its 3D predecessors). You could say that TP lacked originality in the gameplay department because of the low number of original puzzles that used these original items.




You call them "gimmicks", I call them "shreds of originality".

Originally Posted by Alex

Ocarina of Time was the first game I ever played. =]

Nice try, though.

So your telling me, as a 7 year old kid who has never played any video games before all of a sudden picks up OOT as a first game and breezes through it with no problems at all. Yeh very believable...

...Not

Originally Posted by Double A

This is also why I believe that ZWii will not be criticized nearly as much as TP is being criticized now..

I think the Zelda Wii would have to be a perfect game that will please every Zelda fan somehow. I really hope you are right about this REALLY. But I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of whining and complaining going on about it anyway.

IMO TP will probably get more over hyped praise once the next Zelda Wii comes out, in the same manner WW gets a lot of over hyped praise now. I clearly remember there was a lot of hate going on when WW was released. Then TP came out and the hate then became focused on that game, while WW all of a sudden became the ideal Zelda game with that Zelda FEEL somehow. Go figure

I'm sure the same pattern will repeat itself for TP once the new Zelda Wii is released. But I REALLY hope that if the Zelda Wii is as good as it should be, the crybaby diehard fanboys should not over complain as much as they do now for TP, and with WW in previous years.

Originally Posted by JustChilLink

So your telling me, as a 7 year old kid who has never played any video games before all of a sudden picks up OOT as a first game and breezes through it with no problems at all. Yeh very believable...

...Not

Nope, I was 6 the first time I played Ocarina of Time, and I probably died around 30 times. Please note that it was the first time I played a video game, and I was six years old.

By the time I was 7 I could finish the game without dying once. I was hardly good at video games.

Originally Posted by Double A

ALttP introduced puzzles to Zelda, did it not?

NO.

Not sure bout LA, maybe you could mention that it had a completely different setting and that it brought Zelda to a handheld.

Wow. Ok. That's rich. Putting it on a handheld somehow changes the gameplay according to you. It didn't.

Unless Mario World introduced something original to the series, the people comparing SMB3 and SMW are justified (they're on two different consoles goddammit) and I have nothing to say.

Dear god, dude, what you're essentially saying is that Sonic 2 and sonic and knuckles are the same game.


So let me ask you this; What does it take for you to consider something to be a new game?

Tp had new enemies, new actions for pre-existing enemies, new actions for you to perform, new characters, new mini-games, new items and TOTALLY DIFFERENT world with completely new dungeons (ok, I have a feeling that you're going to say something stupid, like "it was hyrule, lol!" despite the name being the only thing it has in common with past versions of hyrule), new bosses, new combat functions, new animations, new textures, new side-quests.....I mean, what do you want!?

Btw, those people say who say OoT is just a 3D alttp are retarded because its not. The only reason people say that is because it was the only other game to have alternative version of the same overworld. Other than that, they were completely different.

And it amazes me (ok, not really) that you somehow managed to neglect naming what TPs gimmick is. Try looking at the cover of the game.

Ganonslayer: funny thing is, people also did the EXACT SAME THING TO MM. When it first came out it was hated as well. Then when WW came out people started to love it and bash WW.

This fanbase is just insane. how the hell are you the ONLY GROUP that complains about Zelda when you're supposed to be the fanbase?

Originally Posted by Double A

TP didn't introduce new gameplay (like its 3D predecessors).

Motion controls.

I'm thinking back right now, and I don't think I've ever seen Tigerboi lose an argument.

Just something interesting for everyone to make a note of.

Originally Posted by Tigerboi

Jesus, dude, what is it with you and MY posts?

It's nothing to do with you in particular, Boi, you just happen to say a lot I disagree with.
As far as this bit about difficulty, it was simply an attempt at humor that seems to have failed.

I think people just get hissy over new Zeldas for not having exactly what the last Zelda had. Playing MM makes me want to play OoT, playing TWW makes me want to play MM and playing TP makes me want to play TWW. It's strange but each Zelda game makes you miss what the other Zelda game had. For that reason I'm positive the next Zelda will have over a 9.5 average and sell over 5 million copies like TP and still have a rabid fanbase crying over it's lack of a "Zelda feel"...

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm thinking back right now, and I don't think I've ever seen Tigerboi lose an argument.

I've never seen anyone here lose an argument.

all i know is that tp did have alot of original content. the sword skills are pretty much a new thing. the wolf mechanic is new. i have to agree with alot of wut tigerboi is saying cuz he is pwning u. the only thing i dont agree with is wen he said alttp and oot are the same game. theyre not essentially the same game, but the basic story format and tasks are. oot just went into 3d. at least thats my opinion.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

I've never seen anyone here lose an argument.

Happens alllllllll the time.

Oh my god, this is the zelda section. Holy ****.

But yeah, tigerboi doesn't lose- he knows wtf he's talking about.

I beg to differ.

That's because you're a raving idiot.

Uh huh. :|

And I assume your done. Back on topic now?