TP: Overhyped, Overrated, and Unrewarding.

By order of the unspoken law, NO zelda games can be dissed, bashed, put-down, or have anything bad said about it what so-ever, with out saying something good along with it... Except the CD-i games.

Originally Posted by HonorableDarkness

By order of the unspoken law, NO zelda games can be dissed, bashed, put-down, or have anything bad said about it what so-ever, with out saying something good along with it... Except the CD-i games.

Wrong! There is no unspoken law. Besides, unless it is written down it is not an official law. Anyway, that sounds like super fanboy-type speech. I can and will say something bad about TP. It sucks. It sucks. It sucks. Any comments for that (here comes the flames!)?

Originally Posted by Kee Something

There is absolutely no reason to go to towns. There are no side-quests there (or anywhere for that matter). I don’t feel like I have to get into too much more detail here since most can agree with me. The towns, side-quests, and mini-games (aside from the fishing) are dull and uninspiring. This is a huge disappointment since side-quests and towns opened up so many possibilities and rewards in the other three 3D Zeldas. Twilight Princess is a huge step backward in this area.

You do have a point here.
I personally love TP and did not even pay attention to how lacking it really was in side-quests and other miscellaneous things to do other than the follow the storyline. Compared to all the other Zelda games there is virtually nothing!!!

I do have to agree that considering how much time Nintendo took to finally release the game more should have been added.


But to me this is not such a big deal because I found all the dungeons amazing. I did not need any side-quests to be satisfied with the game.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

This isn't real life; this is a plot-driven video game.

You asked why the Bulbins were there, that is the answer. The game pretty much implys that the Bulbins are nothing but a bunch of marauders working for their own good. Me saying that the bulbins are inspired by vikings and marauders and being told that "it isn't real life" is like me saying that Malo must be a marketing genius and being told that "it isn't real life," or me saying that TP's Kakariko residents have some Native American inspiration and me being told that it "it isn't real life." I know that it isn't real life, but no matter how fantasy-ish it gets, there are things that are going to be inspired by real life.

So, you are asking me what is wrong with limiting the gamers exploration in a Zelda game-- a series based on exploration? I don't even know if this is worth responding too. Yes, let's make towns crap because gamers may not even spend time in there anyways. . .

Maybe it's better to limit towns, and give alot more of the wild and the unique. I would like that better.

Yes, it is a series based on exploration. However, the goal of LoZ's exploration isn't to explore the familiar (Populated towns, houses.) It's to explore the unusual, the unique, and the wild. Whenever Miyamoto tells his story about his inspiration for Zelda, he speaks of the caves he would always explore when he was a kid. I don't think he spoke much of houses or cities...

What game are you talking about? I hope you aren't talking about Twilight Princess because it doesn't have a single mini-dungeon. Well, I guess you could consider the Palace of Twilight and Hyrule Castle mini-dungeons, but I consider those garbage.

Go out and bomb a few rocks. A couple of the largest optional mini-dungeons in the whole series can be found in the southern portion of the desert, in Lake Hylia, and right outside of Kakariko.

I'm not going to defend Wind Waker because I honestly don't like it very much, but you cannot say that about Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time.

In Ocarina of Time, you are not only rewarded with a horse, the Biggoron Sword, and access to Gossip Stones through side-quests, you also get to learn more about the NPC's backstories (and how they are all connected in some way or another) and you have the power to change certain things in the world. The best reward, in my opinion, is seeing how you change the world around you. For example: when Lon Lon Ranch is taken over by Ingo, you can save the ranch and bring everything back to normal and Talon vows to no longer be lazy on the job.

Twilight Princess has their equivalent of the gossip stones, only they are much more rewarding, because they teach you new moves. Also, you might not be able to obtain an "ultimate sword", but you can obtain a very special piece of armor. Also, here's a question: Let's say Ocarina of Time gave you some NPC backstory in some of the sidequests. If TP offers you a deeper main plot, doesn't it even out?

Do I even have to bring up Majora's Mask's rewards?

Meh, I admit, you do have a point about Majora's Mask.

In Ocarina of Time, I've completed dungeons out of order, and it made sense. Say you make it half way through the Water Temple, get the Longshot, but you are stuck ad you want to take a break from it. You can leave the Water Temple and go through the Spirit Temple in the mean time until you feel ready to go back to the Water Temple.

You may not do it, but that doesn't mean it is pointless to give the player more freedom.

Like I said, it isn't true freedom. The game still makes you do the dungeons in order, at least to about 1/3 or 1/2 of the way through.

Whenever I do the temples out of order, it always seems like much more of an effort and a hassle. It isn't much more of a challenge; it just makes the game more tedious.

Also, whenever I get stuck, I don't give up, and go on to another dungeon. Whenever I get stuck, I turn the game off, and relax. I come back later, with a clear mind, and the answer always comes.

Well, in my opinion, Twilight Princess is the worst Zelda game for its time.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Originally Posted by Andross

Go out and bomb a few rocks. A couple of the largest optional mini-dungeons in the whole series can be found in the southern portion of the desert, in Lake Hylia, and right outside of Kakariko.

Those are all caves.

The cave in the desert is just as big as the Labyrinth in WW. But again, those are caves, not mini-dungeons.

Originally Posted by Johnny K.

Those are all caves.

The cave in the desert is just as big as the Labyrinth in WW. But again, those are caves, not mini-dungeons.

Mini-dungeon, cave, same difference. I use the term "Mini-dungeon" to describe any small, enclosed area in a videogame. "Caves" are considered "Dungeons", so I consider small, optional caves "Mini-dungeons."

It depends on how you use the word, I guess. Anyway, I found TP's "Endless Cave" to be more challenging than tWW's.

Originally Posted by Andross

You asked why the Bulbins were there, that is the answer. The game pretty much implys that the Bulbins are nothing but a bunch of marauders working for their own good. Me saying that the bulbins are inspired by vikings and marauders and being told that "it isn't real life" is like me saying that Malo must be a marketing genius and being told that "it isn't real life," or me saying that TP's Kakariko residents have some Native American inspiration and me being told that it "it isn't real life." I know that it isn't real life, but no matter how fantasy-ish it gets, there are things that are going to be inspired by real life.

But it doesn't explain why the Bulbins just left Link.

Originally Posted by Andross

Maybe it's better to limit towns, and give alot more of the wild and the unique. I would like that better.

But they shouldn't have to do that. I mean, there wasn't much wild and unique anyway, so where did all that extra work go? They had both in OoT, so why can't they have both in TP, a next generation game.

Originally Posted by Andross

Yes, it is a series based on exploration. However, the goal of LoZ's exploration isn't to explore the familiar (Populated towns, houses.) It's to explore the unusual, the unique, and the wild. Whenever Miyamoto tells his story about his inspiration for Zelda, he speaks of the caves he would always explore when he was a kid. I don't think he spoke much of houses or cities...

I go back to my above point.

Originally Posted by Andross

Go out and bomb a few rocks. A couple of the largest optional mini-dungeons in the whole series can be found in the southern portion of the desert, in Lake Hylia, and right outside of Kakariko.

Johnny K. too the words out of my mouth. Those caves are in any Zelda game, and the Labyrinth is nothing new.

Originally Posted by Andross

Twilight Princess has their equivalent of the gossip stones, only they are much more rewarding, because they teach you new moves. Also, you might not be able to obtain an "ultimate sword", but you can obtain a very special piece of armor. Also, here's a question: Let's say Ocarina of Time gave you some NPC backstory in some of the sidequests. If TP offers you a deeper main plot, doesn't it even out?

Those aren't gossip stones. You can't even compare them. How can you compare a howling stone and wolf that teaches you new moves of which there are a measly total of 7, to gossip stones which reveal strange little tidbits of info of which total over 20 or something. And that armour is crap. It guzzles up rupees, so it only has like 10 seconds worth in it, and when it runs out of rupees you can't even wear it as normal armour. Worthless! And TP doesn't offer a deeper main story. It offers a more samey main story!

Originally Posted by Andross

Whenever I do the temples out of order, it always seems like much more of an effort and a hassle. It isn't much more of a challenge; it just makes the game more tedious.

But why not have the option there for everyone. They have the technology and power, so why not?

Originally Posted by Andross

Mini-dungeon, cave, same difference. I use the term "Mini-dungeon" to describe any small, enclosed area in a videogame. "Caves" are considered "Dungeons", so I consider small, optional caves "Mini-dungeons."

It depends on how you use the word, I guess. .

Mini-dungeons aren't caves. Caves are caves. There is a difference between them.

Anyway, I found TP's "Endless Cave" to be more challenging than tWW's

They're the same exact size though, you said the size, not the difficulty. I, too, found TP's harder.

I would consider the Ice Caverns, Gerudo Training Grounds, Ancient Castle of Ikana, Deku Palace, and Bottom of the Well to be mini dungeons. To call those little holes in the ground mini-dungeons is purposely misleading. Grottos would be more appropriate.

Yes, those are mini-dungeons.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

Last, but not least, Twilight Princess is the most linear Zelda game. This was going to be my strongest point, but to be honest, I’m tired of writing this thread right now, so I’ll just fling my point out there; Twilight Princess restricts you and holds your hand throughout the entire game. There are so many parts in the game when you are restricted to just one area in the game, and you have no freedom to complete dungeons out of order. The environments are just singles paths to dungeons (Ordon/Faron Woods is a single path to the Forest Temple; Death Mountain Trail is basically a straight line to the Goron Mines).

To be fair with the game's beginning linearity, there's not much incentive in the beginning of the game to assume the role of the brash and audacious hero who will explore uncharted lands, only to find himself needlessly turned into a Wolf and with no possible escape from the Twilight. The game is plot-driven, therefore, extensive exploration in the beginning is ridiculous considering Link can only survive with Midna's aid, and Link's main prerogative (at that point) was to rescue Illia and the kids.

Kee something, I think these complaints are focused more on the type of game your pursuing, and probably shouldn't be addressed to the game's actual technical faults. I personally think that the more or less plot-driven a game is, ultimately does not effect its overall value. Take for example Resident Evil 4, a game completely plot-driven, but still excellently crafted and played. Then take Majora's Mask, a game still driven by plot at its core, but at the same time has various ways the player could create the story for themselves. Both are excellent games, but are obviously vastly different from eachother. Anyways, I believe a plot-driven game doesn't detract the value, but instead, simply provides a different means of progression while keeping the player engaged. At least, this is how I look at it.

As for the design of Hyrule Field, I agree that while the progression was necessarily linear, the design of the field could have been a bit more expansive and provided more exploration later in the game (when Link's prerogative gradually changed and his limitations became less distinct). But considering how much of an improvement TP's field is when compared to OoT or MM, I see this only as a minor gripe. Either way, WW's world outclasses them all and is one of its greatest strengths when compared to other Zelda games.

I agree with Kee.

I haven't picked up TP since I finished it. I don't care about it. For me, the story sucked. Maybe I'll write more on my opinion tomorrow, but not now.

One thing, though. I hate it when people defend TP by using Midna as a shield. BUT OMG MIDNA WAS SSSOOOOOO GREATTTSTSTSTS!!! No, she really wasn't. She was just your typical snarky smartass sidekick. Have any of you played Banjo-Kazooie before? She's just the "cooler" version of Kazooie. There wasn't anything unique about her to me. She's a "been there done that" character. So far, Link is the only unique character left in these games.

I liked Midna a whole lot better when she wasn't so damn popular.

Originally Posted by amor.xx

I agree with Kee.

I haven't picked up TP since I finished it. I don't care about it. For me, the story sucked. Maybe I'll write more on my opinion tomorrow, but not now.

One thing, though. I hate it when people defend TP by using Midna as a shield. BUT OMG MIDNA WAS SSSOOOOOO GREATTTSTSTSTS!!! No, she really wasn't. She was just your typical snarky smartass sidekick. Have any of you played Banjo-Kazooie before? She's just the "cooler" version of Kazooie. There wasn't anything unique about her to me. She's a "been there done that" character. So far, Link is the only unique character left in these games.

I liked Midna a whole lot better when she wasn't so damn popular.

This guys right. I can't pick up TP again either...and the story was alright...but it let me down for the most part. I still base this on the idea that the damn game was way too easy....I need a little difficulty! And yes, Midna is over done...she's really not that great.

Originally Posted by DakZhul

This guys right. I can't pick up TP again either...and the story was alright...but it let me down for the most part. I still base this on the idea that the damn game was way too easy....I need a little difficulty! And yes, Midna is over done...she's really not that great.

But she's so cute..... (In that Disgaea, somewhat twisted sort of cute.):XD

Just ignore me...carry on!

Originally Posted by amor.xx

One thing, though. I hate it when people defend TP by using Midna as a shield. BUT OMG MIDNA WAS SSSOOOOOO GREATTTSTSTSTS!!! No, she really wasn't. She was just your typical snarky smartass sidekick. Have any of you played Banjo-Kazooie before? She's just the "cooler" version of Kazooie. There wasn't anything unique about her to me. She's a "been there done that" character. So far, Link is the only unique character left in these games.

I did play Banjo Kazooie, and you're right. She's not much different from Kazooie in the way of personality.

She's still one of the better characters in the row of cardboard cutouts, though.

Originally Posted by amor.xx

One thing, though. I hate it when people defend TP by using Midna as a shield. BUT OMG MIDNA WAS SSSOOOOOO GREATTTSTSTSTS!!! No, she really wasn't. She was just your typical snarky smartass sidekick. Have any of you played Banjo-Kazooie before? She's just the "cooler" version of Kazooie. There wasn't anything unique about her to me. She's a "been there done that" character. So far, Link is the only unique character left in these games.

I liked Midna a whole lot better when she wasn't so damn popular.

I hate it when people make fun of TP and use OoT as a shield. "OMG OoT IS THE BEST!11!!1!!1!!!!1!!!!11111111!1!!" Well to tell you the truth, people need to move on. I know you guys will answer like " Why should we when its the best" Well the answer is to just get off this forum and play OoT and its remakes. None of us need to be bashing others OPINIONS.

I hate how people on this forum have opinions and try to bash them into peoples heads as facts. Like their opinion is the best and everyone elses doesnt matter. *looks at kee something*

This topic really needs to be closed. IMO atleast

Why does it need to be closed? Some fun "knocking" can be a good thing.

We're discussing the flaws of a game here, and to some extent, the pros. This is what a forum is for you know. This topic hasn't broken any rules at all, so it shouldn't be closed. No one's trying to bash opinions into others' heads. We're discussing it... or at least everyone except you are.

Pffft, well, EXCUSE ME because the game doesn't have the entire Earth exploding if you don't keep going through.

"Graphics underwhelming"

It was made for GAMECUBE. Go fish.

"No voice acting"

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Plenty of good games had no voice acting. What does it even matter if it has no voice acting? "I don't like reading, so I'll think I'll bash this game until people agree with me!"

I don't think this is the best Zelda game ever, but seriously, people can hate it for the STUPIDEST reasons.

what? we don't hate TP. just because you are dissapointed in something doesn't mean you hate it...