Gerudo where are you? (TP Spoilers)

that should also be topics of debate since you shouldn't change the look of a race just to keep them from dying out that seems like exaggerated evolution

well why would the gods punish them by sending them to the twili they could have turned they're faith into being defeated by goblins so i'll agree with you half way

if the gerudo do pop up in phantom hourglass then you win this debate but it wont come out for a while so keep debating

Originally Posted by zeldacrazysal

well why would the gods punish them by sending them to the twili they could have turned they're faith into being defeated by goblins so i'll agree with you half way

Iam not sure exactly what you mean??

I didnt say the gerudo were Twilli.. i said you could see why some people could think they were
I still believe they will turn up in later LoZ games in the same form they were in OOT.
They have just been hiding out somewhere that hasnt been seen in the past couple of games.

i believe they were defeated by the goblins and stick to one idea don't agree with the ba council cause you'll contradict yourself

Originally Posted by zeldacrazysal

i believe they were defeated by the goblins and stick to one idea don't agree with the ba council cause you'll contradict yourself

How have i contradicted myself?

I still find it hard to believe that a whole clan of hardened female desert warriors was completely wiped out by a gang of franky pathetic goblins.
Even if they were attacked at least some would escape.

but the disparearance of the gerudo's in WW shows that they might have been defeated don't say they are hiding cause anyone could say they are eating steak with the gorons can we prove they are not not really we should theorize by what we know

Originally Posted by zeldacrazysal

but the disparearance of the gerudo's in WW shows that they might have been defeated don't say they are hiding cause anyone could say they are eating steak with the gorons can we prove they are not not really we should theorize by what we know

I know!
Iam not saying your theory of them being wiped out is wrong..
Iam just stating my own theory.
Which is they went into hiding maybe due to events that took places after OOT.
Iam sure they will show up again, they were popular with fans so they would not just remove them entirely.

in the begging of this thread i stated to be a debate thread so we can argue about who's opinion is right or wrong so don't think i'm being a jerk you are right too nintendo wouldn't wipe out the origin race of ganondorf

My opinion is this: The Gerudo became the Twili.

The "flashback" cutscenes, particularly of Ganondorf being sealed in the Twilight Realm, happened a LONG time ago, relative to the current game time.

If you read the LttP backstory (printed in the instruction manual), it states that Ganondorf Dragmire (did you know he had a last name? haha) and his band of Enchanted Thieves found an entrance to the Golden Land by accident, and Ganondorf fought with his own people in order to reach the Triforce; his wish transformed the Golden Land into the Dark World, a land of twilight.

Ganondorf then amassed an army and attacked Hyrule, which began the Imprisoning War. Ganondorf was eventually subdued by the Hylian Knights and sealed in the Sacred Realm, along with his remaining army, by the Sages. The cutscene shown in TP is, I think, a portrayal of this original sealing, done at the end of the Imprisoning War.

The Gerudo (i.e. Enchanted Thieves) still loyal to Ganondorf would have been sealed away at the same time. But Ganon was weakened and went into hiding in the Dark World (i.e. Twilight Realm), leaving the Gerudo to rule themselves. They eventually became the Twili, a tribe of Twilight-dwelling magicians.

I haven't yet worked out all the kinks as to whether this is consistent with events in OoT, though. Perhaps the Gerudo are not actually the original band of thieves, but the new recruits used in the Imprisoning War? Perhaps the Imprisoning War happened during the seven years of Link's entrapment in OoT, and Link returned to end it. In which case the same sealing-away by the sages has been portrayed in two different ways.

Or perhaps the Imprisoning War happened long before OoT, and OoT represents simply another time that Ganon has returned. Overall, either Ganon has a habit of returning over the centuries, or there are several games which portray the same sequence of events from different perspectives.

Originally Posted by zeldacrazysal

in the begging of this thread i stated to be a debate thread so we can argue about who's opinion is right or wrong so don't think i'm being a jerk you are right too nintendo wouldn't wipe out the origin race of ganondorf

I think you ought to try out this page. It's excellent for people with your types of views:
http://piv.pivpiv.dk/

You need to do English class again I think, mister. We may not be perfect but at least people can understand us. Sorry... I guess I just call a spade a spade, eh?

Here's what I think -
Hyrule must have gone to war with the Gerudo some time after OoT and claimed the desert for their own - to store Hyrule's worst criminals in. Ganondorf still has a LOT of power when he is defeated in OoT so he doesn't need the Gerudo to be alive for he himself to survive. He doesn't seem killable. The best even the most powerful creatures in Hyrule can do is seal him away hmm... But then Ganondorf truly dies at the end of Hyrule this time - or so it seems.. He doesn't fall over when he dies.. How does Ganondorf return later on in Hyrule if the story ends this way?

Anyway, the Gerudo would have been some of Hyrule's worst enemies for sure - Or the man who spoke of them may have been over-exaggerating them as one sometimes does when they speak of their own, most common enemy. Having said that though - I don't think Hyrule has really had any other enemy other than the Gerudo.. especially not at this point in the time-line. I think the Gerudo may be the dead souls that guard the hallways of the Desert jail.. Nevertheless people are naturally runners if their life or freedom is threatened. There will always be those who live on, the more adept at surviving the desert will survive and those who aren't will die out and a more powerful Gerudo race will emerge. Survival of the fittest.

zeldascrazyal, please, do not double/triple-post. You can use the Edit button under your post to add to it after you've posted.

Anyway, the absence of the Gerudo race baffles me as well. I thought that perhaps they were turned into those creatures we see a lot of in there? You know, those green ones that always stand around shooting arrows at you.

Someone theorized years ago that in TWW, the Gerudos were turned into Ganondorf's servants/monsters, which would make sense seeing as they grew to despise him and would not serve him. Like Zant, his people would not accept him as a leader, so he turned his people into monsters so that they would.

That's exactly what Zant did, and it would make sense for Ganondorf to do so.

sorry for the spelling and the triple posting i type all of this through my phone so you see i really can't help it i got limited spelling and limited amount i can put into my post well those all seem like logical theories and to the section mod i know there is a debate forum but its for everything and i was wondering if a new forum just for zelda debate's could be created

But any 'theory' Zelda thread is to some extent a debate thread. Are we not debating right now about where the Gerudo are amongst ourselves and our own opinions?

I do like the idea of the Gerudo turning in to the moblins after some time. Without their powerful leader they are small and weak and their only power is in their nomadic abilities and numbers... OoT (and sorta MM) is the last we generally hear of the Gerudo as a proper tribe. After that Ganondorf's minions are referred to as his thieves and 'monsters' but the Gerudo are never seen - only moblins from TP onwards. Wow that makes a lot of sense..
William Zelda3Ever rocks.

Their original reason for abandonment of their original ways would have been a number of things:
1. Their hate of the scorching desert and harsh winds (Ganondorf himself hates it as we find out in tWW, and it is his reasoning for wanting to claim Hyrule)
2. No leader means chaos among the tribe and things would change.
3. Their hate of Ganondorf and his original crude and unfair ways of doing things.

However later on as things change their ideals change (around TP time) and they strive for survival, becoming cannibals and demons - The only people they support militarily is the team that is the strongest- the team that will look after them during the battle and after it is won.

Of course all this will go out the window if in PH we find Gerudos and we'll find ourselves saying once again "Nintendo really likes to mess things up"

do you have any proof of all there events happening?

There is no evidence as to what happened to them. We do know that they didn't go into hiding after OOT though. Think about it. They're partying at Lon Lon Ranch with everyone else at the end.

I totally agree with you they are at the Milk Bar in MM drinking milk rum and slashing the heads of the goblins well it's more probable than the gerudos going into hiding.

the gerudo weren't bad lol, look at nabooru. anyways i believe they simply moved into the castle town and began to be peaceful. look at the end of ocarina; they're celebrating with everyone else there right? anyways but yeah also the fact that a gerudo runs a bar in TP castle town also leads me to believe this. (look at her, she's definatly a gerudo...also the fortune teller as well). i'm more concerned with the lack of lon lon ranch and the fact that the shiekah village and kakariko look pathetic. especially the graveyard....why aren't hyrule royal families buried there anymore? and how did the zoras take that over?

The girl who runs the bar isn't Gerudo (sorry I can't remember her name). Also the people celebrating at the end are Hylians not Gerudo.

At the end of OoT you see Gorons, Zoras and, Gerudos celebrating with the Hylians.

In this thread we are talking about TP not OoT at the end we know Gerudos were alive at the time of Oot we are talking about what happened to them in TP..

Hmmm...this maybe a little far fetched but I personally think that the Twili are actually the Gerudo. Midna said that the criminals were banished to the twilight realm, and when Midna changes into her normal form she looks ALOT like a Gerudo female. (Sleek features, striking eyes, and a strange jewel formation on the forehead).

You also dont see any twili males. (I consider the creatures in the palace of twilight currently genderless because of the morphing of their features due to Zant.) And if this is atleast a hundred years after OoT maybe Zant was the male that was born into the tribe.

Thoughts?