A Golden Opputunity Missed...

WHAT? REALLY? WOW! I NEVER KNEW THAT! No, not really. I'm being sarcastic. That's one of Link's best moves, so of course I know it. I'm talking about Link driving his sword into someone or something's head and leaving it there.

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

WHAT? REALLY? WOW! I NEVER KNEW THAT! No, not really. I'm being sarcastic. That's one of Link's best moves, so of course I know it. I'm talking about Link driving his sword into someone or something's head and leaving it there.

Yes, I knew what you meant. I was just being a smart-ass for the fun of it.XD

Well, that was stupid.


Anyway, Googol helped prove my point really well. I don't just think cel-shading would fit only for WW, but for any zelda game.

"OMGZ, LYNK WAS TEH KyD SOH DEH Used TEh KARTUUNY GRAFFIX11!!"

People, how often is Link NOT a kid in the Zelda series?

Are you talking to me? Okay then, allow me to explain this to you. The reason Nintendo never had a cel shaded Zelda before this is because it takes a powerful system to pull cel shading off. The DS can do it, just look at Viewtiful Joe. The reason it wasn't done before is because they just didn't have the technology to do it. This game was just one of many times Nintendo has decided to just test things out.

I do believe that the WW graphics were stunning. I loved them. However, I do not think that Nintendo should only make Cel shaded games, or only make 3D games. They need to have a mix. This way, they can attract much more gamers, and have everyone happy. Don't forget, there are those who hate Cel shading, just as there are now those who realise 3D graphics aren't all they're cracked up to be. Nintendo needs to appeal to a larger target audience.

I wasn't keen on the cel shading originally. I was expecting a realistic Zelda, not a cartoon styled one. But when one considers the style of the game, it was quite comical in places, being shot out of a cannon and such - I don't think realistic graphics would really fit it. Wind Waker is a generally cheerful game and lighthearted. TTP is shaping up to seem quite a dark and atmospheric game, where realistic graphics will fit perfectly.

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Are you talking to me? Okay then, allow me to explain this to you. The reason Nintendo never had a cel shaded Zelda before this is because it takes a powerful system to pull cel shading off. The DS can do it, just look at Viewtiful Joe. The reason it wasn't done before is because they just didn't have the technology to do it. This game was just one of many times Nintendo has decided to just test things out.

Well, seeing as I wasn't talking to you, that makes your whole post devoid.

But to be positive...

It doesn't require 128 bit graphics to produce cel-shading. The DS is a 64-bit system and was able to produce it. Cel-shading is just a texture and sometimes (in WW's case) a lighting technique. It has nothing to do with graphical power and the DS proves that.

In other words, there was no need to explain anything to me. If anything, the N64's take on a more serious looking anime style was an attempt to try something different. The cartoony look has always been the staple for the series. It's just that WW was the first 3D game to pay homage to that style.

Um, I always thought that the DS was a 96 bit system, since I read somewhere (official) that it had graphical capabilities better than those of the N64. All I had to do was follow Nintendo's trend and I figured out what the bit count was. Are they megabits or something like that or what? I think a bit is really low, isn't it?

um ok then.....

could you imagine wind waker with twilight princess graphics? the sailing would be awful theres somthing about the cel shaded graphics that suits the sailing and we would have a much smaller map and less dynamic effects to reduce the lag, basically wind waker needed the cel shaded graphics to be so huge and fun and dont forget "OMGZ, LYNK WAS TEH KyD SOH DEH Used TEh KARTUUNY GRAFFIX11!!"

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Um, I always thought that the DS was a 96 bit system, since I read somewhere (official) that it had graphical capabilities better than those of the N64. All I had to do was follow Nintendo's trend and I figured out what the bit count was. Are they megabits or something like that or what? I think a bit is really low, isn't it?

Considering that people thought you needed 128 bits for cel-shading, yes. 96 or 64, it proves my point. Alot of effects done in WW (Link's cap blowing in the wind, real time lighting, the water effects) needed the power of the GCN to work. But cel-shading was not one of them.

So the N64 could have done cel-shading? Wow, I didn't know that. So, I guess what I read was saying that not only could it do cel-shading, but the DS could also do realistic lighting effects to go along with it. Well, thanks for correcting me on that! How would humanity progress without being proven wrong?

I don't think Nintendo will stick with realistic 3-D graphics, WW wasn't bad, it was a Zelda game, come on it can't be bad. Not that I hated WW, I liked it (I'm on my fourth play through and it is still awesome) but I think all Zelda fans like OoT, if not that one, then MM, or if not that then you are not a Zelda fan. So I think WW was cool and all, with all the graphic details and such, but TP is a realistic 3-D game, and its detail level is just as high as WWers. What? This post is not off topic!!! :embrsd:
And though Cel-shading wouldn't have looked that bad on OoT or MM, it just wouldn't seem right now if they remade them like that. Yeah. (TP really looks awesome, it can totally whoop the 360's graphics! Go Nintendo!)

Originally Posted by vacumgod

No, after TP I bet nintendo will return to cel shaded shaded, just not the tWW art style. Imagine zelda revolution to look like samurai champloo, just.. in 3D, but somehow manages to look 2D.

You mean like ToS? That game was an excellent example of how cel-shaded graphics can still look cool. Personally, I loved tWW's graphics. Once you get used to the bright colors, you realize that everything flows so smoothly... Everything just feels as if it's flowing with cel-shading, and that's just what the series needs. Seamless, flawless movement, just like its gameplay.

As for the stained glass style, I really can't see that happening. How would that work in three dimensions? Maybe my imagination just needs a tune-up, but that's a difficult concept to imagine. In fact, if the image I'm coming up with is correct, your style might be a step backwards... We don't really need a Paper Zelda.

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

So the N64 could have done cel-shading? Wow, I didn't know that. So, I guess what I read was saying that not only could it do cel-shading, but the DS could also do realistic lighting effects to go along with it. Well, thanks for correcting me on that! How would humanity progress without being proven wrong?

Considering that people thought you needed 128 bits for cel-shading, yes. 96 or 64, it proves my point. Alot of effects done in WW (Link's cap blowing in the wind, real time lighting, the water effects) needed the power of the GCN to work. But cel-shading was not one of them.

This may not apply to the discussion, but here's goes anyway. For those who say graphics do not matter, I agree to a point. If a game has awesome graphics but a poor storyline and gameplay, the game is going to suck...period.

On the other hand, if the graphics are second-rate but the plot is great and the action is in-your-face, then the graphics are easily overlooked. Why do you think Link'sAwakening was so awesome? The graphics were typical GBC, but the plotline and playability was awesome!

That being said, I liked the graphics on Wind Waker. Take the Wizzrobes for example. On the game OOT, the wizzrobes were ugly little troll-like creatures that looked like they were about 900 years old. The Wizzrobes on WW are TOUCANS for heaven's sake! That's just innovative. You can't beat imagination like that!

I personally like the realistic feel of OoT and TP alot better. WW was nice for a change, but if all the games started coming out in cel-shaded graphics, I would smash my TV with a very large hammer. or something else equally destructive to show my dislike.

The skull hammer would work. *grin*

Seriosly, though. WW does have it's perks. You may find the graphics annoying, and it does have that "kiddish" feel to it at times. (My three year-old can stare at the screen for hours while I am playing--just like a cartoon to her!)

However, I think the one thing that made the graphics work so well in WW was the "cute" factor. I mean, c'mon...who didn't look at Aryll and think to themselves "Aww..isn't she cute?"

Also, in games like MM and OOT, when Link battled an enemy after a few hits the enemy would simply fal down and vanish. In WW, not only does link execute automated samurai-type swordplay, but does it not look KILLER when enemies fly throug the air and land in a puff of purple smoke?

I loved the Wind Waker graphics once i played a demo of the game. I don't think that it is a kiddy game either. Cel shading was and is a good idea for Zelda games with a child Link in. Adult Link games should have realistic graphics (like TP)

Originally Posted by Maxi678

I loved the Wind Waker graphics once i played a demo of the game. I don't think that it is a kiddy game either. Cel shading was and is a good idea for Zelda games with a child Link in. Adult Link games should have realistic graphics (like TP)

You are wrong. I don't know how many times I've said this, but the Windwaker is a kiddy game! That does not mean bad automatically, but it is kiddy. Come on! Talking boats, cartoony designs; it is. But it is still a great game. I respect it as a Zelda game, and focus on the good points alone.

Okay, try saying that boats are kiddy to those pirates over there. Then we'll see if they're kiddy. But, seriously, how are boats "kiddy"? Huh? I just don't see that. You are right, Wind Waker was, er, kiddy. But, by kiddy I mean that it was focused at children more than any other Zelda game before. We are getting what we have been waiting for and wanting for these many long years, which is the mature goodness of Twilight Princess. Yes, Wind Waker was more kiddy than any other Zelda game, but when you think about it, they're all kiddy.