Addressing the SS hate

Edit: Since I wrote this very late into the night and was incredibly tired, I did not type and proofread this post up to my personal standards. As a result, I left a few parts in that are inconsequential to my argument. I'll cross out the parts that do not reflect the message I am trying to get across.


What's going on in ZU? It's as if all the TP fanboys/girls have been fed up with the ridiculous amount of TP hate from the last five years or so and have been eagerly waiting for the next Zelda installment to come out to bash it for all its worth (consciously or subliminally), as some kind of messed up idea of revenge. Yeah, I verified it; Twilight Princess is the favorite or second favorite Zelda of half of the haters here on ZU, which is completely disproportional to the size of the actual TP fanbase (if the “current favorite Zelda poll” is any indicator, about half the size of all four other 3D Zeldas). If this applies to you, take a few deep breaths and realize that the majority of gaming community and critics loved TP and that it’s just a small but vocal minority that actually thought it was a bad game, a number that would be even smaller if people didn’t have unreal expectations from it for being a Zelda game. And if it makes you feel better to know it, TP hate is slowly but surely dying off as the rusty wheels of the TP Hate bandwagon start to roll off. To clarify, I always thought TP was a great game and hold the opinion that it’s on par with TWW, 4th on my favorites list.

Well, here’s my message to any SS fans left on this site; be rest assured that the irrational hatred for SS is part of a systematic backlash that happens with just about every post-OoT Zelda game

(it’s not endemic to Zelda; some Metroid fans trashed MP2 and MP3 soon after release for “not living up to” MP, and there’s still a group of people on the Internet saying “Skyrim sucks, Morrowind was where it was at!”).

Edit: a better example here would have been Super Smash Bros Brawl

I cordially invite you to read some of the ZU threads I dug up from previous years, when the games were relatively new. Notice how extreme the opinions are compared to what exists today.


Wind Waker sucks.

Did Wind Waker live up to Ocarina of Time?

TP: Overhyped, Overrated, and Unrewarding. (I think one TP example is enough, you all seen enough TP hate anyways)

Unfortunately, the forums weren’t around when MM was released, but here’s something to look at.

OoT vs MM: which is better? (2005-2009; MM trails by 8.1 percent of the vote)

Ocarina of Time vs Majora's Mask: Which is better? (2010-current; MM ahead by 1.46 percent)

Edit: apparently, somebody cheated in the polls to inflate MM's score; it should actually be pretty close to a tie

MM did not have to deal so much with backlash as it had to deal with being forgotten and constantly overshadowed by OoT, much like LA was overshadowed by ALttP. However, in current years MM’s popularity has boomed thanks to release on the Virtual Console and the game hitting cult classic status. I don’t think it’s an illogical statement to say that Zelda games become more popular and favorable as they age. Even Zelda II, the black sheep of the series, gets considerable love nowadays, when only 8 years ago, people would consistently point to it as the worst game in the franchise.

---------- Post added at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 AM ----------

So what does that mean? The SS hate won’t last long, and I can say with as much certainty as one of Fi’s calculations that in 15 years, the game will become a cult classic, a process we’re seeing happening with TWW right now.

If you want more indirect evidence of this theory, just compare the responses from the current “TWW is the best Zelda game of all time” thread to that of the “SS is the best Zelda game of all time” thread. The TWW thread is a nice tea party where everybody shares their fond memories of the game, while the SS thread is a battle zone, perhaps a cup of tea sprinkled with a few grains of constructive criticism and many spoonfuls of bitterness and negativity.

Why The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is the Best Zelda Game of All Time!

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...ml#post4683902

Imagine if that TWW thread was posted back in 2004. You’d get responses like this one (a real quote from the "Did TWW Live Up to OoT" thread):

Originally Posted by Darth Kirby

Wind Waker was a tremendous disappointment and doesn't live up to ANY Zelda game, let alone Ocarina of Time(which may only be bested by A Link to the Past). I certainly hope they learn from their mistakes, which they probably won't; sales were still good(they could've put no disc in the box and still sold lots as long as Zelda was on the box; I'd buy it. But I won't be fooled again).

I'll throw my personal opinion out there. Is SS the best Zelda? No. Is it my favorite? Yes. For all the crap wrong with the empty sky and the redundant text, I found it to be a beautifully crafted, fresh, and fun game oozing with new ideas, one that's floating in a sea of brown colored FPS’s, facebook games, and stagnant JRPGs (with a few exceptions, you know which ones). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I loved SS’s controls, story, characters, art style, music, level design, bosses, and cutscenes. The numerous contributions like the stamina bar, increased agility, directional sword swinging, and overworld/dungeon blending kept the game feeling fresh to me, and reminded me again that Zelda is a series that continues to adventure into new and exciting territory, like ALttP did when surprised all with its dual world mechanic and refined formula, and OoT when it made it made a big splash in the small puddle that was 3D gaming.

TMMD;

You said yourself it was only really a temporary dislike of a single game leading people to urm "bash it for all its worth" as if that was the only opinion that actually matters here on ZU.
Your descripttion of SS threads as "a battle zone, perhaps a cup of tea sprinkled with a few grains of constructive criticism and many spoonfuls of bitterness and negativity" is ♥♥♥♥ing golden, that is some of the best characterisation of a fanbase I've heard; the whole convoluted wants of Skyward Sword fans and bashers isn't exactly helpful to people trying to convey their opinions, but that's how art works. People have different opnions on something, if someone feel strongly against something, they will defend their opinon of it; if it's valid, they will provide an argument that proves as such. Sometimes it's disappointment, natural reaction, or irritation at defintiion of opinon that spawn argument; and I think all of those applied to me.
I don't know what I was expecting of Twilight princess but goddamn was I disappoitned by it when I first played; then, after getting a few hours through, I found much to my elation that this was going to be a grand epic. Skyward Sword did no such thing for me.
I tried to like this game, really I did, but the problem is, giving a game a chance and it utterly blowing up in your face certainly isn't fair on the player.

My point is that my opinion was shaped by my personality; and that's ok. Everyone's experience with the game is different and so everyone is entitled to express it. Even if the counter-argument provides no definitive evidence to your opinion, who cares? I have the satisfaction of knowing people understood me, and that they knew what I thought of an art.

A discussion requires argument by definition, and if a positive opinion outweighs a negative one or vice-versa, then that's just a more largely recognised opinion. An attack on a game can lead to an excess of trolls, flamers, etc but what you've pointed out is that there's a trend in initial fan backlash; and since this continually happens to the franchise; Nintendo have to be doing something wrong.
If you expect this to die down; why worry about it? If you think it'll get more love as times goes, why worry?
Do ntoe that even this is evident of something Nintendo may be doing continually wrong; that their initial releases are met with poor resposne, and yet they continue to be put down as great additions to the series. I can't honestly think off the top of my head the last proper Legend of Zelda release that did a recieve negative critical review.

I'm glad you took the time to write this out, and address what you disagreed with, but really; it makes no difference, people will still continue to rebut the people that thought it was good and vice versa. It happens with EVERY form of art, it's just soemthing people have to deal with, since people have a wide and vastly different range of appreciation.
You say hate is "irrational" but I think you'll find people have had legitimiate complaints towards this game, I wouldn't be so stereotyping of an opinion different from yours; because you're convinced a group of people are irrationally inclined, doesn't mean everyone with that opinion is.

Well Durgey, I congratulate you for keeping the sarcasm level on this post to a minimum. Here are a few things I'd like to respond to.

Originally Posted by Durgey

You said yourself it was only really a temporary dislike of a single game leading people to urm "bash it for all its worth" as if that was the only opinion that actually matters here on ZU.

No, but I implied that about half of the bashing is exactly that. The other half didn't care much for TP and for the most part are fans of ALttP or OoT, who say the linearity and lack of exploration in SS killed the experience for them.

Originally Posted by Durgey

A discussion requires argument by definition, and if a positive opinion outweighs a negative one or vice-versa, then that's just a more largely recognised opinion. An attack on a game can lead to an excess of trolls, flamers, etc but what you've pointed out is that there's a trend in initial fan backlash; and since this continually happens to the franchise; Nintendo have to be doing something wrong.

Not really, I think Nintendo's handling things just fine. Even if the next Zelda game has all the qualities people are currently demanding for, I still expect about the same percentage of the fanbase to be dissatisfied with the next major Zelda game and will derail the game for whatever new problems arises from it. If fans can bash Metroid Prime 3, the Mario Galaxy games, and completely crap on Brawl and get hundreds of likes on YouTube, then I am confident that the Zelda series is not unique in this regard of having over-exaggerated fan backlash.

Originally Posted by Durgey

If you expect this to die down; why worry about it? If you think it'll get more love as times goes, why worry?

I want to spread the message to the other SS fans out there that they shouldn't worry either. I made a prediction a month after SS's release that SS would face such backlash (it was still in its honey-moon period then, and many people haven't even played the game yet until Christmas) when criticism was at a minimum.

Real-life history of 3D Zelda, from the eyes of the Zelda community

So yeah, the fanbase is quite predictable. Right now we're in the stage that saying you liked SS is controversial statement. The good news for the SS fans is that in 5 to 10 years from now, we can start throwing our own tea parties and reminisce about the great experiences we had with the game like the TWW fans are doing right now.

Originally Posted by Durgey

I'm glad you took the time to write this out, and address what you disagreed with, but really; it makes no difference, people will still continue to rebut the people that thought it was good and vice versa. It happens with EVERY form of art, it's just soemthing people have to deal with, since people have a wide and vastly different range of appreciation.

Thank you. My goal in the OP was to address the hate, not eliminate it. That would be impossible.

Originally Posted by Durgey

You say hate is "irrational" but I think you'll find people have had legitimiate complaints towards this game, I wouldn't be so stereotyping of an opinion different from yours; because you're convinced a group of people are irrationally inclined, doesn't mean everyone with that opinion is.

Funny thing, when I was proofreading, I noticed that it might be possible that the statement, "be rest assured that the irrational hatred for SS is part of a systematic backlash" might be misconstrued to imply that criticism or "healthy" hatred of SS is irrational, but that was not what I meant. I said that the irrational hatred is part of a systematic backlash, as opposed to the "rational" hatred or stern criticism that follows every game I've ever played, regardless of whatever fanbase it has, because no video game I've ever played was flawless or had no problems that I could not point out.

As appealing as it seems to try to rationalize and generalize fanbase processes in order to analyze where exactly the new games stand in relation to the others, the fact is, there are way too many little incidents at work that makes what the OP is trying to say always will happen far too much of a simplification; the infamous "Zelda Cycle", in other words.

For one, things will always be the most heated when a new game has just come out. That should be obvious. But having the heated debates die out shouldn't necessarily be an indication that people have all of a sudden warmed up to the game; I'd say it's more due to the fact that people who didn't like the game too much simply loss interest in even discussing it.

As the OP pointed out, most threads of WW, MM, etc. end up as essentially praise-threads for the game these days, but does that mean that everybody has suddenly fallen in love with the games they once bashed? That seems a bit too far-fetched. I think it's more rational to say that most of the people who would bother to discuss those game frequently 10 plus years after they came would be people who always liked them. Those games still have haters, and you will see them pop up in discussions from time to time even today, but for the most part, they just don't really care about those games anymore.

Now, I'm not saying that everybody's opinion is set in stone right from the start. There are instances where people probably did warm up to the game over the years, and came to appreciate the positive aspects of it. In the case of WW in particular, the artstyle was probably the most heated topic when it first came out, but something as peripheral as a game's artstyle is probably something that would die down in debate naturally over the years. In fact, any other complaints about WW that have more to do with the core game, such as the incompleteness of the main quest, the Triforce Quest, and the unmemorable dungeons, are very much still common sentiments that you can still see even today.

In the case of MM, I can't really elaborate that much, since I wasn't around the internet when that game first came out (and I didn't even get into Zelda until around 2002-ish), but I think for that game, it had more to due with how much of a radical departure it was so suddenly after OoT masterfully set up the 3D Zelda formula that initially turned people away. Think about it: after the game that many considered to be the most revolutionary of all time, you would think that the sequel would pretty much use all the groundwork it laid. MM did do that to some extent, but suddenly you also have a time limit, only four dungeons, a huge emphasis on sidequests, and the new mechanic of transformation masks. Again, I wouldn't be able to say if people actually bashed that game when it first came out, but I can easily see how it may have turned people away. Something that is as radical of a departure from the norm as MM was was bound to take a while for the appeal to sink in for many people.

Now, for TP, I think it's what most goes against what you've been trying to say, Thegargoylevine. TP hate is still very much around. On this forum in particular, we actually had to make a separate "fan club" thread for it that specifically didn't allow haters to post dislike for the game. Yes, it's not as heated as it was when it first came out, but bringing it up is sure to let the negative view points start to come out of hiding again. TP certainly isn't going to be seen as a "cult classic" anytime soon. The game has very dedicated lovers, but is otherwise seen with general apathy among others. The thing with TP is that, unlike WW with it's artstyle or MM with it's departure from the norm, there really isn't anything about it that is going to allow people to change their minds over the years. If you liked it when it first came out, you probably still like it today. If you hated it for it's barren overworld, wolf mechanic, and boring introductory segment, you probably still think that way today. There might be some cross over of opinions over time, but not that much, and especially not enough to justify believing the "Zelda cycle".

And that brings us to SS. This observation is purely anecdotal on my part, but it's something I think is worth pointing out: I really don't see people talking about this game anymore. I don't know if that should be normal considering it's been out for about 5 months already, but I thought interest on both ends died out pretty quickly. I don't know; maybe it's just me.

Anyway, just like with TP, I don't see this game being seen as a classic over the years. SS has even more aspects about it that doesn't really allow for "warming up" to it. Nobody likes the handholding, slow text, and some other controversial gameplay segments, like the tadtone hunt. Those opinions aren't going to change ever. And on top of that, SS has the disadvantage of fully embracing motion controls. People who love the controls (as I do) will see that as the highlight of the game, but there are people who just will never give motion controlled gaming the time of day, for various reasons.

And, there's the other group of haters who feel like the game is the epitome of everything that is wrong with the franchise in general. That linearity and story has taken over freedom and exploration (completely true, by the way). Those people, like myself, are most likely to be the ones talking about the gradual decline of the franchise that mostly started with WW, and the ones wanting a re-start of the series.

SS has several things working against it; you can pretty much split the haters into groups depending on what it is they dislike about it. And I don't really see any "TP fan revenge" either. Yeah, some people who love TP hate SS for whatever reason, but I don't see that as a big enough phenomenon to warrant pointing it out. People who hate the linearity in SS aren't likely to be the biggest fans of TP either, after all.

Also, as Durgey pointed out, the fact that there even has to be a fan backlash to these games to begin with is indication that something is wrong. WW's backlash should tell Nintendo to stop messing around with something as meaningless as artstyles, for example. For games from other franchises, like the Mario Galaxies, the amount of hate they get isn't nearly enough to be worth pointing out in comparison to the praise they get. I don't really see "hate" for the Mario series and backlash for each new game. The only other recent game I can think of from Nintendo that had a huge backlash was for Metroid Other M, and everybody could have seen that coming from a mile away.

Zelda's backlash to each new release really isn't that common. When I go visit forums/threads for other franchises, such as the big releases of last year such as Arkham City, Skyrim, and others, sure there's some negative viewpoints, but for the most part, it's discussion among people who are all loving the game. With Zelda, we get fan battles. Everytime. Maybe you could just shrug it off and say that we're a bunch of weirdos, but considering the fact that Zelda encompasses such a wide amount of gameplay areas, and also the fact that it has changed over the years in what it emphasizes, for better or for worse, then these "battles" start to make sense.

Well that's my long attempt to explain fanbase reactions to the past decade of Zelda games. You can obviously debate anything I said. But the real true indication of whether SS is successful or not is with sales. That's hard to do since finding out North American sales has become such a pain in the ass and mostly relies on guesswork. The game didn't do well in Japan, that's for sure, and I think the latest we have from Nintendo in NA is that it reached one million in sales sometime in January. Nintendo hasn't really brought it up since then, and instead focuses on the good sales of the 3DS, Mario Kart 7, and Super Mario 3D Land everytime their reports come out. I don't think the fact that they don't bother to brag about SS anymore is a good sign. If that's true, then the direction SS has took the series certainly isn't appealing to the majority of gamers, and Nintendo needs to think hard about whether they should continue going the way the series is.

Consider this:

1. Game is released.
2. All the gamers who were disappointed by it complain on the forums.
3. Time passes and these people bleed off the forums.
4. The fans who liked the game remain on the forums.
5. Go back to step one.

Consider this:

1. Game comes out
2. Gamers bash it
3. Next game in the series comes out
4. Gamers bash it and praise the earlier game
5. etc.

From my point of view, all this means is that the games in that^ particular series are becoming worse and worse in these gamers' eyes, but the release of the next game forces them to lower their standards to a level where they can appreciate the last game.

Originally Posted by Double A

Consider this:

1. Game comes out
2. Gamers bash it
3. Next game in the series comes out
4. Gamers bash it and praise the earlier game
5. etc.

From my point of view, all this means is that the games in that^ particular series are becoming worse and worse in these gamers' eyes, but the release of the next game forces them to lower their standards to a level where they can appreciate the last game.

To be fair, (almost) every game series have people complaining that the later sequel is not good as the original or to an earlier sequel.

Thanks for the reply, Common Knowledge. You bring up many good points.

For the record, I don't believe in the "Zelda cycle," at least not the one involving two steps and "rehash vs. not rehash" and whatnot. But I believe in some pattern that is at the root of at least part of this dynamic, and I've already gave a few reasons why; as for the cause, my wild guess is some mixture of nostalgia, band wagon effect, aging fanbase, hype and post-hype disappointment, etc. Your and Solid Knight's theory that the haters for a game die out faster than the lovers on the Internet makes sense and is likely a part of the explanation, and I definitely agree with you that there are many variables involved. If the OP made it seem like I was suggesting some magical, sure-fire, and oversimplified Zelda cycle, then I apologize.

While responding to your post, I stumbled upon a picture posted on IGN before SS was released. Obviously, it is exaggerated to a large degree and is flawed for not differentiating OoT and MM, but what's written here is something I feel is currently in motion and will be more or less true by the time the next major Zelda game is out, unless something drastic happens.



Knowing that somebody was able to predict this even before we knew what possible strengths or weaknesses SS had only reaffirms my belief that there is a predictable pattern at work here. I still have some level of doubt, because the "pattern" could just be coincidence, but if this continues with Zelda Wii U (or 3DS, if that happens to be considered a major Zelda title), I won't bother to question it anymore and just accept it as fact.

As for the fanbase's current opinion of TP, I've observed that while TP hate still exists, it is decreasing. Compared to TWW, where the hate practically dissipated less than 2 years after release, the rate for TP is much, much slower. It's easy to say the only reason for it is that TP is simply a worse game than TWW, but I also think that the fact that TP was many times more hyped than TWW (compounded by the ridiculous delays and amazing trailer material that never made it to the game) lead to greater levels of disappointment, and that's going to take a long time to get over. That's at least why I think TP hate still exists.

For that matter, I don't think TP haters will ever do a full 180 and fall in love with the game, but I honestly do predict that many of them will later say that the game "wasn't as bad as they remembered" or that it was decent. In line with that thought, I also think many of those who had no strong opinion of TP one way or the other, particularly those who grew up with the game (those will be the rose tinted glasses wearing nostalgics 10 years from now), will change from feeling apathetic to slightly positive, even without a controversial factor like MM's 3-day cycle and TWW's artstyle. It's not just a crackpot theory I have, because I have read many comments saying that they've learned to appreciate TP more after playing SS, often saying something along the lines of "I didn't miss the giant, open fields until they were gone."

Originally Posted by Common Knowledge

But the real true indication of whether SS is successful or not is with sales. That's hard to do since finding out North American sales has become such a pain in the ass and mostly relies on guesswork. The game didn't do well in Japan, that's for sure, and I think the latest we have from Nintendo in NA is that it reached one million in sales sometime in January.

Okay, I have several problems with this paragraph. By December, SS already had sold 3.42 mil units worldwide. Nintendo posted this themselves. I don't think its a far stretch of the imagination to say that sales have gone up to at least 4 mil by now, considering that Nintendo games generally have respectable long term sales.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/201...27e.pdf#page=7

But let's imagine the worst and say SS had absolutely no sales after December. 3.42 mil is still a respectable number considering the following: 1.) the Wii is a dead console and many hardcore gamers have since sold their Wii's or otherwise boxed it up in their basements, 2.) the game required an add-on, adding $20 to the price that can easily turn away casuals/parents from buying the game when all other Wii games could be bought for $50, 3.) the game has a bright and colorful artstyle that turned away the certain portion of the hardcore gaming community that refuses to play a game that doesn't look dark and gritty, 4.) the game was released a week after Skyrim of all things, a game so explosively popular (3.4 mil in two days, suggesting that it was hyped like hell) and long that it actually harmed the gaming industry as a whole by decreasing sales of other hardcore games, presumably because those gamers didn't want to buy another game until they completed all 100+ hours of Skyrim. (side note: Skyrim sold 10 mil by December and was released on three "hardcore" platforms; if the comparison is appropriate here, SS sold slightly more units per system despite having all the odds stacked against it, so I don't think it can be called a sales failure by any interpretation of the word.)

But if we play by your rules, then MM is the least successful 3D Zelda to date with 3 mil lifetime sales. Like SS, MM was released in the dying breath of its console and required an add-on. However, unlike SS, MM had all the appropriate hype for being the sequel to what was then the biggest, greatest game ever (OoT had 7.6 mil lifetime sales) and didn't have any significant competition, except with its own predecessor.

Originally Posted by Common Knowledge

Nintendo hasn't really brought it up since then, and instead focuses on the good sales of the 3DS, Mario Kart 7, and Super Mario 3D Land everytime their reports come out. I don't think the fact that they don't bother to brag about SS anymore is a good sign. If that's true, then the direction SS has took the series certainly isn't appealing to the majority of gamers, and Nintendo needs to think hard about whether they should continue going the way the series is.

It makes no sense for Nintendo to "brag" about SS sales of all things. Nintendo is like any other company and focuses on raising spectator confidence to increase the value of their stock. The 3DS back in November was finally sharpening up after months of doom and gloom and Nintendo wanted its investors to know that, because a newly released handheld is a big deal. Focusing on strong 1st party sales was an integral part of that, because what wrecked 3DS sales the most was the lack of original 1st party games, the system sellers of any Nintendo handheld. Why would Nintendo bring up SS sales? "Oh, by the way investors, one of the games on our dead home console is selling moderately well despite us completely neglecting the console for over a year. Buy more of our stock."

Originally Posted by Nen desharu

To be fair, (almost) every game series have people complaining that the later sequel is not good as the original or to an earlier sequel.

I was talking specifically about these people who appear to turn on their heels and praise a previously-criticized game.

I'm under the impression that, among the Zelda fanbase, there is no consensus about whether or not WW > TP or TP > SS or whatever, which is worse in some respects. It means that the series is not getting worse or better.

Call me a seer, but...

The Day Will Soon Come...


I foresaw all of this. And a lot of Cow's predictions came true!

I love how we have a thread titled "The Magic and Charm of WW" in the GC/Wii forum.

This would have been a joke back in 2004, and even if it came out right before SS was released, people would have been pointing out its many flaws. It DOES have many flaws that everyone seems suddenly forgiving of now.

Long sailing times? Not enough dungeons? Triforce Sidequest? What happened to how horrible these were? I LOVE WW and I still can't stand these parts.

Originally Posted by Double A

I was talking specifically about these people who appear to turn on their heels and praise a previously-criticized game.

I'm under the impression that, among the Zelda fanbase, there is no consensus about whether or not WW > TP or TP > SS or whatever, which is worse in some respects. It means that the series is not getting worse or better.

When I say almost, Zelda is actually excluded from the list of games with newer sequels being definitely worse than the original or earlier sequels, since TWW, TP, and SS have approximately equal amounts of praise and loathing.

I don't dislike SS because others have bashed TP. I dislike it because Nintendo messed it up.
I couldn't care less if someone hates TP. That's their loss. It's definitely not in my top three among the Zelda games, but I do like it. It's a great game with it's share of flaws.
SS is the only Zelda game that I have really disliked. I won't say that I hate it, because I don't. I'm just sorely disappointed. It has so much going for it, but with all the cutscenes, interruptions and excessive spoon feeding, it all turns into a big waste.
The Imprisoned fights don't help, either.

Originally Posted by Zecora

Call me a seer, but...

The Day Will Soon Come...


I foresaw all of this. And a lot of Cow's predictions came true!

Wow, that's really quite funny. I remember complaining about the conspicuous lack of fishing in SS among other things.

Originally Posted by Butt Fist

Story sucks, graphics suck, art style suck, stamina meter sucks, focused too much on the WM+, flying sucks, enemies suck, bosses suck, side quests suck, items suck [lack of items], NPCs suck, sky islands suck [lack of sky islands], overworld sucks, the other overworld sucks, Silent Realm sucks, Link sucks, WM+ sucks, crafting sucks, you suck, the world sucks, I hate everybody.

I bolded all the complaints I've heard so far. Mr. Butt Fist should get an award for this.

Its just the way things are with this fanbase. Give the game some time and it will get a warmer reception sooner or later. Just like WW and MM.

Skyward Sword really isn't as terrible as some make it out to be imo. Yes I agree the Sky Overworld was disapointing because it wasn't as good as Wind Wakers Great Sea in my opinion. But I really adored all the characters (The main Cast AND the side Cast) I think their the best in the series so far since I always enjoyed revisiting these colourful characters. Even when they have nothing else to say anymore. =) I also loved most of the new races and I'm really hoping to see some of them again (especially the awesome Mogma's xD ).

Skyward Sword is definitely not a bad game and as you said. The game will definitely reach its loved status someday, just like WW and MM.

Huh.
I loved Skyward Sword.
I loved the bosses. I loved Fi. I loved the music.

And by golly, I loved the tadtones.


Hey, hey, guys, c'mere... I got a secret to tell y'all. It's a real good, juicy one, trust me... Now listen close, 'cause I'm only gonna say it once. Ready? Are you ready?! Alright, alright, here it is -

'Different' does not mean 'Decline'.

*collective gasp*

It seems everyone expects the fanbase to be as fickle and petulant as humanly possible; seems like you're accounting random group opinions and an overall feeling towards a game as opposed to individual appreciations of the games in and of themselves. I'm am no fickle person, I may change over time but what matters to me is how I appreciate a game now. If I think it's bad, I'll stick to it; it's my integrity as an appreciator of art, to the mythology that is video games. It's not happened yet; I've not lost my integrity, but in the future it's entirely possible my opinon of Skyward Sword may be more appreciative but to this day, I have never been able to stand over-rated rubbish and despite the fact that a first impression can be entirely wrong, it is the one that sticks with all the way through.
I may forgive Skyward Sword for its flaws -as you guys have pointed out the appreciation over time, but I'm afraid that to someone like me, distain and disapointment can grow with time. (that's why I don't watch Doctor Who anymore) I just wanted to explain my ultimate opinion to the most recent addition to the franchise; I did not like it -and I will keep to this stance. To me, a game is trully over when you'e reached the point where you're satisfied that you've seen the best it can offer. Is that all Skyward Sword? Is that all you have for me? Sorry, but I am dreadfully disappointed.

I loved the combination art style and the storyline. I don't understand why people don't like it or don't like the controls. Sure, I've had problems, but same with all games.

Originally Posted by badwolf16

I loved the combination art style and the storyline. I don't understand why people don't like it or don't like the controls. Sure, I've had problems, but same with all games.

I hope you at least appreciate that people are entitled to their opinion? I entirely disagree with people that like this game, but I still understand why they appreciate it; it's a difference in taste, and having conflicted opnions is just part of the appreciation of art.

Originally Posted by Thegargoylevine

Ocarina of Time vs Majora's Mask: Which is better? (2010-current; MM ahead by 1.46 percent)

Just wanted to say that MM is ahead by about 20 votes because somebody screwed with the poll results somehow. If it weren't for that, it would be on par with OoT, winning by 1-5 votes, or losing by 1-5 votes.