The Sword is used way too much in SS :(

I would have preferred the D-pad with the SS wheel thing.

I shouldn't have to go to the selection menu every time I want to switch. It feels very clumsy to me. Hold B to select...press B to take it out and then A to use it? That doesn't sound clumsy to anyone else?

Originally Posted by Feline Witch

I was just pointing out the logic in the "if it's the title then it should be the only thing used in combat" argument. As for musical instruments being used as weapons Musical Assassin - Television Tropes & Idioms (and I take it you've never met a Pol's Voice?)

No one ever stated that. Raven497 stated that since the title is Skyward Sword, it makes sense that the sword is used a lot in combat because, get this, swords are weapons as opposed to musical instruments that are not! Even so, there were more creative features as well (like dousing). You honestly think they'll make a game where the title and story focus around the sword, and the gameplay doesn't? The sword was always Link's primary weapon, why would that change in a game where the sword is the main part of the story? Where is your logic?

I actually found SS's item system pretty aggravating at time. Sometimes my Wiimote would be all over the place when I needed a certain item (which could get very nasty in a boss fight.) Or I ended up drinking one of my potions by mistake. It's a bit too streamlined at times. It wouldn\t be so bad if you could equip more then one item at a time.

The item switching is in real-time, so it's pretty much the same as having all your items equipped at the same time.

The problem was that there wasn't a great deal of variety among enemies in Skyward Sword, and as a result, there wasn't so much of a need to figure out strategies to beating enemies, besides things like the Beamos or the Armos. In the latter case, you used an item in a unique way, then used your sword to finish the final blow. It makes a nice change from stabbing bokoblins.

There are multiple ways to take out enemies in Skyward Sword using other items like bombs and the bow, but now the swordplay has more depth requiring more strategy to battle. Your complaint should apply to all 3D Zeldas and even more so if it was a bother for you in SS. Bill explained it better in his post:

Originally Posted by Bill

Since Zelda has moved to 3D, the secondary weapons have never played a huge role in combat, and where they did, the execution was sort of simplistic. There's not much intrigue (or skill) in targeting an enemy and spamming projectiles. That's why, thankfully, more recent Zelda games have forced you to aim your projectiles manually.

It's no surprise that Skyward Sword emphasized the sword, but I think the bow had some decent use in combat as well. In fact, I'd say Skyward Sword had some of the best archery segments we've seen in a Zelda game.

Everything aside, this has to be one of the more arbitrary and petty criticisms I've seen thus far, and that is saying something. I hardly ever used the secondary weapons in combat, and why does that matter anyway? If I hadn't seen who made the thread, I could have mistaken it for a joke. The sword is used to much in skyward sword? WTF.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

I would have preferred the D-pad with the SS wheel thing.

I shouldn't have to go to the selection menu every time I want to switch. It feels very clumsy to me. Hold B to select...press B to take it out and then A to use it? That doesn't sound clumsy to anyone else?

I think the d-pad was awkward because of its location on the Wiimote which required me to shift my hand so my thumb could reach it. Using the B-button is faster and more convent.

Originally Posted by Lanayru_

In OoT/MM/WW you were restricted to using the C buttons or XYZ buttons for items. OoT is notorious for having to open your select item subscreen, move over a page or two, equip the pair of boots you need, then close the menu, over and over and over and over and over again in dungeons like the Water Temple and Shadow Temple. It's nice to be able to just use buttons instead of having to switch items, but there are times when having three buttons isn't enough, and you have to go into your menu screen to select the right ones. This is still annoying.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm just a fan of that style of equipment screen.

Then again my preferred genre is RPGs, which prominently feature character equipment/customization screens that completely remove you from the gameplay. I don't think pausing the game and selecting your items is really that big of a problem because it never felt to me that it was significantly affecting my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I really liked that you are essentially doing typical RPG-esque customization in Ocarina of Time's menu.

Not to mention I am just not a fan of overusing motion controls, and that menu seems a bit overkill to me. I definitely see how the item wheel is attractive to some people, but I don't see why it couldn't have been controlled with the control stick. Again that's just personal preference, though. It was faster to use, I will grant you that, but the overall feel of Ocarina of Time's menu was just more at home with me.

but I don't see why it couldn't have been controlled with the control stick.

It couldn't be controlled with the control stick because the control stick controls your character.

Swimming, though, as you pointed out, is an overuse and an illogical use. It makes no sense that the analog stick controls Link's movement while he's running, but not swimming. That was an unnecessary and poor implementation.

Originally Posted by Bill

It couldn't be controlled with the control stick because the control stick controls your character.

Forgot about that.

Speaking of which I don't see why the item menu didn't pause the game considering at no point should you ever be forced to swap items in a time in which you are vulnerable to take damage. I always killed all the enemies (considering as we've already established, all of them are vulnerable to the sword), then swapped items.

Ah well, it's a minor issue at worst.

Originally Posted by Bill

Swimming, though, as you pointed out, is an overuse and an illogical use. It makes no sense that the analog stick controls Link's movement while he's running, but not swimming. That was an unnecessary and poor implementation.

Agree wholeheartedly.

The worst part was that swimming above water was controlled by the analog stick and below it was transferred to motion controls, just for the hell of it.

Originally Posted by pawptart

The worst part was that swimming above water was controlled by the analog stick and below it was transferred to motion controls, just for the hell of it.

You could swim underwater using the analog, it was just slower.

I actually dislike the item wheel menu. The game doesn't even pause while your sorting your items, so you're still running away, trying not to be slaughtered, as well as grabbing your ♥♥♥♥ty whip or something. You say that XYZ or the C pad causes restrictions and that "if you know where the item is, it takes seconds", but pressing one button to get an item (Like XYZ) takes no time at all.

Originally Posted by Kee-Something

No one ever stated that. Raven497 stated that since the title is Skyward Sword, it makes sense that the sword is used a lot in combat because, get this, swords are weapons as opposed to musical instruments that are not! Even so, there were more creative features as well (like dousing). You honestly think they'll make a game where the title and story focus around the sword, and the gameplay doesn't? The sword was always Link's primary weapon, why would that change in a game where the sword is the main part of the story? Where is your logic?

That's pretty much what several people have stated. I don't think the sword is used in combat more then in any other Zelda, it's that the other items are used less. It goes in hand with a big complaint about SS is that there isn't much enemy variety, and the vast majority of enemies can be beaten with a simple few stabs, like the Bokoblins. The bow arrives when the game is almost finished, and a lot of items that have had practical uses in combat have had their uses in combat removed. I liked using the Gust Bellows to expose the weakspot of an armos, rather then just leaping in and stabbing them, like you do with the bokoblins.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

I would have preferred the D-pad with the SS wheel thing.

I shouldn't have to go to the selection menu every time I want to switch. It feels very clumsy to me. Hold B to select...press B to take it out and then A to use it? That doesn't sound clumsy to anyone else?

How is it any less clumsy than equipping an item from the menu to the short cut D-pad so you can THEN equip it to the B button? There's no intuitiveness there.

Originally Posted by Erikson

I prefer assigning three items to equip as opposed to constantly swapping out one item to equip at a time. It may take half a second, but you do it often enough that it evens out (I'd say SS item menu adds up more overall). In OoT, you can do the entirety of almost all dungeons with just three items with ease, occasionally opening the menu for the few bomb and bottle use when you need it. Iron Boots use in the Water Temple is the only real hindrance, in Shadow Temple you can just leave the Hover Boots on and is not in that many instances where you need them. Swapping between items due to the addition of the Lens of Truth is the Shadow Temple's real hindrance, and Din's Fire is only needed once other than opening the temple.

Swapping an item in SS, if you're good, takes less than half a second. It takes almost no time at all. It might be more tedious than hitting a button, but it's something you have to practice with just like everything else involving the game. Maybe you rarely have to open the menu because you've planned what's most efficient, but for most people who play OoT, they have to constantly open up the menu subscreen in order to switch items.

Being able to drag the Wii-mote to whatever item you need at a given time is awesome. If you play the game enough, it's not hard to get used to, and you spend much less time cycling through menu screens.

I can see where you are coming from and I agree, but I think SS was meant to be played like that, so that you could embrace the Wii Motion Plus.

Originally Posted by Feline Witch

That's pretty much what several people have stated. I don't think the sword is used in combat more then in any other Zelda, it's that the other items are used less.

You have more control over the sword in SS because of the Wiimotion Plus, so there is more variety in attacks and strategies. Just compare the Skulltula in SS to any other iteration in the series--there are far more creative ways to take it out that include the Beetle, flipping it like a pancake with your sword, using the bow, spinning it with your sword and stabbing it like a pinata, bombs, etc. Deku Babas and Chus eat bombs making it the most effective way to defeat them. Stalfos are weak against bombs. Slingshot stuns monsters... Even the fishing net can be used to "confuse" Demise.

Have you tried any other strategies?

It goes in hand with a big complaint about SS is that there isn't much enemy variety,

This I agree with.

and the vast majority of enemies can be beaten with a simple few stabs, like the Bokoblins.

And like most enemies in EVERY Zelda game.

The bow arrives when the game is almost finished,

The bow is the most overpowered item in the game, so it should appear late.

[quote]and a lot of items that have had practical uses in combat have had their uses in combat removed.[/quotes]
Examples?

I liked using the Gust Bellows to expose the weakspot of an armos, rather then just leaping in and stabbing them, like you do with the bokoblins.

Have you played Wind Waker or Twilight Princess recently?

Originally Posted by Lanayru_

How is it any less clumsy than equipping an item from the menu to the short cut D-pad so you can THEN equip it to the B button? There's no intuitiveness there.



Swapping an item in SS, if you're good, takes less than half a second. It takes almost no time at all. It might be more tedious than hitting a button, but it's something you have to practice with just like everything else involving the game. Maybe you rarely have to open the menu because you've planned what's most efficient, but for most people who play OoT, they have to constantly open up the menu subscreen in order to switch items.

Being able to drag the Wii-mote to whatever item you need at a given time is awesome. If you play the game enough, it's not hard to get used to, and you spend much less time cycling through menu screens.

And yet it becomes impossible when the wiimote starts tweaking out...which it often does.

Kee Something

The sword is used for the majority of every Zelda game. Just not to the extent in Skyward Sword. The Skulltulas are an extremely rare enemy, so I don't think you can use them as an example, and to me they are a step in the right direction. I would have liked a few more "smart" enemies in the game like that. I just got sick of the Bokoblins very quickly.

If the Bow is overpowered... well take away some of its power and put it in the game earlier. But I don't think the Bow is that much more overpowered then it has been. The clawshots also arrive pretty late in the game, and again have had any uses they have had in combat removed. I would have much rather have had one appear fairly early, and then get the second at the point you get both. I just would have liked to have the other items have potentially non damaging uses in combat that you could use with the sword: tripping up enemies with the whip for example, or stunning them with the clawshot. Aside from the Beetle (which is fantastic) the other items weren\t as fun to use as they have been in previous Zeldas. I think the use of the sword is fine, but I would like to use the other items more.

What does TWW and Tp have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by Feline Witch

Kee Something

Sup?

The sword is used for the majority of every Zelda game. Just not to the extent in Skyward Sword. The Skulltulas are an extremely rare enemy, so I don't think you can use them as an example, and to me they are a step in the right direction. I would have liked a few more "smart" enemies in the game like that. I just got sick of the Bokoblins very quickly.

Skulltulas didn't seem extremely rare to me, but if that makes them not count, then I guess the only enemies TP has are Bokoblins and Deku Babas.

Anyway, I think you're completely missing the point. Skyward Sword's main new feature is the 1:1 sword fighting, so it's no surprise that there will be more focus on the sword. The thing is that even though the sword combat has much more depth and gives the player more control, there are still other ways to take out enemies--just as much, if not more variety in ways to take out enemies than past Zeldas. Just because there is more to do with the sword doesn't mean the bombs no longer work--in fact, they are the ideal way to destroy Deku Babas and Chuchus. They are also quiet effective against Bokoblins; it's just more fun to use the sword because SS gives you more control.

If SS did not offer more swordplay, then it would have been a complete copout for a Motion Plus Zelda. If anything, the sword should have been used even more (or enemies should have been made much tougher).

If the Bow is overpowered... well take away some of its power and put it in the game earlier. But I don't think the Bow is that much more overpowered then it has been.

Haha... no matter what, you are going to find things wrong with SS.

Yes, the bow is as strong as it was in TP, and it was EXTREMELY overpowered in TP as well. It makes the slingshot useless. Thankfully, SS was more balanced and offered better trade-offs (slingshot is super weak, but it can stun enemies and it's much quicker to control; the bow is slower, you get it later in the game, but it's very powerful).

The clawshots also arrive pretty late in the game, and again have had any uses they have had in combat removed. I would have much rather have had one appear fairly early, and then get the second at the point you get both.

Gee, because the combat involving the Clawshot was so involving and fun...

I just would have liked to have the other items have potentially non damaging uses in combat that you could use with the sword: tripping up enemies with the whip for example, or stunning them with the clawshot. Aside from the Beetle (which is fantastic) the other items weren\t as fun to use as they have been in previous Zeldas. I think the use of the sword is fine, but I would like to use the other items more.

The whip was a disappointment for sure, but it sounds like you are just making a wishlist at this point and you're mad that SS didn't hit every note right. For me, I understand that SS has less items than past Zeldas, but the ratio of usefulness of those items is much higher than previous 3D Zeldas. Bombs have become more useful in combat than past Zelda games, and Nintendo has gotten much more creative with combining items (like using the Beetle to pick up bombs and drop them on enemies).

I honestly think you are just ignoring all the innovations SS brought to the table, and your judgement of past Zelda games seem clouded. Replay TP. The sword is your primary weapon, but it's far less fun to use.

What does TWW and Tp have to do with anything?

You said: "I liked using the Gust Bellows to expose the weakspot of an armos, rather then just leaping in and stabbing them, like you do with the bokoblins"
That's basically how you kill 90% of the enemies in those games as well. Your complaint against SS applies to all Zeldas, but for you, it only seems to be a problem in SS... Hmmm. I smell bias.

Tp has lots of enemies. Helmosaurs, lizafos, those flying things in City in the Sky, bari, torch slugs, darknuts, shadow rats, kargoroc, shell blades, lanmolas, freezards, wolfos, those horrid ice creatures in the Snowpeak Ruins, beamos, armos, bomblings, redeads.... and those are just off the top of my head. A lot of them have you using an item alongside the sword to defeat them: use the clawshots to pull out the brains of biri or the helmets of helmetsaurs, for example.

The Slingshot = is always useless. Let's face it, unless it's the main projectile weapon like the first part of OoT or OoS, it's junk.

Yeah, the Clawshots are so rubbish. I mean that hookshot item, why do they keep putting it in Zelda games? It's useless and no one likes it. I never want to use it unless they make me. I hate having uses for it in combat.

Hmmm. Why shouldn't I have complaints with SS? Since when have I said I didn't have problems with TP or OoT or TWW? I found it frustrating that a lot of new items like the Spinner, and most items besides the Clawshot and the Bow became instantly useless after the dungeon you got them in. SS in some ways made this worse, since they removed a lot of uses that the Clawshot or the Bow had, or had you get them so late in the game that you didn't use them very much. But god forbid if I don't absolutely love everything about SS. How dare I?!?! Who do I think I am?!?! I smell bias. (Oh by the way, in case you didn't notice, I already wrote that the Beetle was amazing. The beetle arrives early in the game, is useful throughout the game, is upgraded to become even more useful. It just highlights how badly a lot of the other items were implemented.)

I think the Clawshots are a bit overrated. All they really do is promote a terrible design choice and make the games more linear than they have to be. I'd rather just have the whip as it essentially has a similar use and is still useful in a variety of other ways. That said, I enjoy them more in SS as the game forces you to use them far less and doesn't force you into incredibly horrible boss battles with them.

I don't really know, I quite like the Clawshots. I thought they were a great reinvention of the hookshots, and ended up breathing whole new life into a classic Zelda item. At first I was diappointed by the lack of boomerang, (especially since the Gale Boomerang was a great new twist on it, even though it became useless in combat as a result), the Beetle more then makes up for it. If more items like the Gust Bellows and the Whip were as useful outside of combat the way the Beetle is, I actually wouldn't mind so much that they don't serve any use in battle.

Originally Posted by Feline Witch

Yeah, the Clawshots are so rubbish. I mean that hookshot item, why do they keep putting it in Zelda games? It's useless and no one likes it. I never want to use it unless they make me. I hate having uses for it in combat.

Originally Posted by Feline Witch

I don't really know, I quite like the Clawshots. I thought they were a great reinvention of the hookshots, and ended up breathing whole new life into a classic Zelda item.

Wait, wut?

To sum it up, I think most of the items in Skyward Sword were awful and useless. Just look at the Whip. Used in Ancient Cistern, never used again. It's immediately replaced by the Clawshots. They should have done what they did in Wind Waker: Get the Grappling Hook/Whip first, complete most of the game, and then get the Hookshot/Clawshots. It worked for me.

Originally Posted by Big_Boxx

I think the Clawshots are a bit overrated. All they really do is promote a terrible design choice and make the games more linear than they have to be. I'd rather just have the whip as it essentially has a similar use and is still useful in a variety of other ways. That said, I enjoy them more in SS as the game forces you to use them far less and doesn't force you into incredibly horrible boss battles with them.

The hookshot/clawshots have always been crappy weapons. That's why Morpha was such an awful boss. To be effective, you're more or less required to target, but if you target, you have no control over the aim. SS seems to finally acknowledge this, and so doesn't incorporate them into the combat much (if at all).

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

And yet it becomes impossible when the wiimote starts tweaking out...which it often does.

To sum it up, I think most of the items in Skyward Sword were awful and useless. Just look at the Whip. Used in Ancient Cistern, never used again. It's immediately replaced by the Clawshots. They should have done what they did in Wind Waker: Get the Grappling Hook/Whip first, complete most of the game, and then get the Hookshot/Clawshots. It worked for me.

It's acceptable to give you an item that fulfills a certain general purpose and then later, give you a better item that achieves the same purpose, is more convenient, and has more uses. They did this well with the slingshot/bow in Ocarina of Time, but this is pointless in TP.

I don't know if the clawshots were really meant to replace the whip, it's hard to say.