The Issues of Time Travel

I struggled when considering which forum to post this in: general or Skyward Sword. I'm posting it here because examples from this game are still fresh in my mind (though I'm sure there are loads from OoT/other games).

I have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the inconsistencies that time travel creates. Perhaps they are best left unexplained and I should just accept that this is a fantasy world. I suppose I just like to rationalize what can't be. I find I like these games more when I at least am given some sort of explanation.

I don't understand how the statue of Hylia that was plunged into the ground (to destroy Demise in the present time) could still exist when Link and others return after destroying Demise in the past. If he was destroyed in the past, wouldn't that have altered the future to the point that a Skyloft wouldn't have existed all that time? It confuses me that Link, Zelda, and Groose return after destroying Demise some thousand years in the past and the villagers of Skyloft meet up with them at the end as if this never happened. Also, when Zelda went to the past to enter her period of suspended animation to contain demise, wouldn't that then alter the future and make it so she never existed in Link's lifetime?

Trying to comprehend Impa's time travel is also an elusive task for me. Demise is defeated in the past and Zelda hands Impa one of the bracelets. Does this mean that the older Impa knew all along what was going to occur? Did she (the older version) have the bracelet at the start of the game? If not, does that mean the hundreds (if not thousands) of years that she lived after Demise's death in the past were completely altered (and thus she would not be the same old woman that was saw at the start)?

/headache

Ok, allow me to clear some stuff up.
"I don't understand how the statue of Hylia that was plunged into the ground (to destroy Demise in the present time) could still exist when Link and others return after destroying Demise in the past. If he was destroyed in the past, wouldn't that have altered the future to the point that a Skyloft wouldn't have existed all that time?"
The fight between Demise and link in the past occured after Skyloft had been put into the sky. So the hole in the ground still existed, and nothing would have changed to alter Skyloft.
"It confuses me that Link, Zelda, and Groose return after destroying Demise some thousand years in the past and the villagers of Skyloft meet up with them at the end as if this never happened."
The vilagers coming to the ground to meet them is likely because they wanted to see what happened to the statue of the goddess. It did just plunge down from Skyloft inexplicably, so I think it's understandable why they wanted to check it out.
"Also, when Zelda went to the past to enter her period of suspended animation to contain demise, wouldn't that then alter the future and make it so she never existed in Link's lifetime?"
Zelda returned to the past, but that doesn't mean that doesn't really change anything from links point of view. A second zelda would have been born just as the first one had, so there would be one going around as normal (until she returns to the past and suspends herself) and another that was living inside that Amber thingy.
"Trying to comprehend Impa's time travel is also an elusive task for me. Demise is defeated in the past and Zelda hands Impa one of the bracelets. Does this mean that the older Impa knew all along what was going to occur? Did she (the older version) have the bracelet at the start of the game? If not, does that mean the hundreds (if not thousands) of years that she lived after Demise's death in the past were completely altered (and thus she would not be the same old woman that was saw at the start)?"
The old Impa did know all along how everything was going to happen. I believe that she did have the bracelet for all those yeats and she just sort of put it on when the crew returned after defeating demise. She likely hid that bracelet so that she wouldn't give away that she wouldn't be discovered as being Impa, before the time was right.
I hope I cleared things up for you

I do think there are some problems that just were not attempted to be fixed or thought through too well, a major one being Demise's defeat in the past pretty much causing a sort of paradox in which Link would never start his journey to begin with.

However, for the most part I think things remain consistent and cohesive. There are two Zeldas that exist at once; the one who you see throughout the beginning of the game, and the one sleeping in the Sealed Temple(it is possible to see her there from, well, the earliest point you get there).

I feel a lot of this would be easier to explain if only more people would have watched Lost. :p Impa actually reminded me a lot of Eloise Hawking, what with having the most to do with time travel as well as manipulating or guiding others so that they don't mess anything up. Of course it's not all exactly the same, but the idea is similar.

The fight between Demise and link in the past occured after Skyloft had been put into the sky. So the hole in the ground still existed, and nothing would have changed to alter Skyloft.

I suppose this was what I meant:

Yes, Skyloft had already been created by that time. However, given that Demise was destroyed in the past, wouldn't that then mean that Skyloft could have returned to the ground? There's no longer a reason for Skyloft to be there for all those hundreds/thousands of years if Demise was defeated.

However, for the most part I think things remain consistent and cohesive. There are two Zeldas that exist at once; the one who you see throughout the beginning of the game, and the one sleeping in the Sealed Temple(it is possible to see her there from, well, the earliest point you get there).

This is interesting, Big_Boxx. You mean you can actually see the sealed Zelda in the temple BEFORE you get to that cutscene where she and Impa travel to the past? I always thought that what happened was this: There was no sealed Zelda in the temple UNTIL the present Zelda went into the past to seal herself. This then changed the future, meaning that when you return to the present Zelda is now sealed there. If two Zelda's existed at the same time, as you say, then I need to rethink the way I view time travel in this game o_O.

This is also like what happened with Impa's bracelet. Did she have it all along or did the fact that Zelda gave it to her in the past (after she herself was forcibly returned there by Ghirahim) then change the future and make is so the elder Impa now has the bracelet?

Well, my philosophy on time travel, of which I shared with Lost as well, is that it never changes, meaning that whenever time travel is involved, it was always meant to happen. There would never be any paradoxes as fate would take over. Kind of a weird thing to wrap your head around.

Which is why the whole ending of SS is a bit confusing. I can't help but wonder if the Imprisoned in the present is actually what's leftover of Demise, or if only a part of Demise was sealed in the Master Sword. Thus, the events that we've seen, like Link needing to get the Triforce and all, would still be necessary in order to protect everyone.

If you ever watched Star trek you'd know that time travel and the temporal parodoxes it creates just can't be explained.

Link in SS gets the Goddess sword in the Goddess statue yet if he had already been to the past before he was born then it should have been the master sword in the sealed temple and demise should have been dead and thus there would be no reason for anything in SS to take place...


but this is how parodoxes work...an event happens in the present that affects the past and it turns out that it has always affected the past even before you started the event yet the present is not changed by the past...its very confusing. Take Captain Janeways advice and just ignore it.

Likewise, if you read the plot of the Dark Cloud game series carefully, there are similar paradoxes as in Skyward Sword and the Dark Cloud games were originally meant to compete with Zelda (and yes, the Dark Cloud games have time travel as major plot points, especially with the sequel).

Here are headscratchers in the Dark Cloud series

Here is some wild mass guessing in the Dark Cloud series

Some things are not made to make sense. For example, it can be possible that two Zeldas can appear at once (one inside an amber crystal and another meeting Impa for the first time).

That was the first thing I said when Debbie went back to the past to resurrect Demise, while Link was still able to go back the the future to go to Skyloft and equip himself better for the battle with Demise. But i think what happened is that Demise, doesn't stay in Hyrule while he awaits Link. He is an eternal being an time is nothing to him. He allows for Link to prepare as he disappears into his own dimension of sorts. Leaving The Imprisoned as a reminder to all that his power is there and getting stronger. It adds that respect and honourability that Debbie had, where unlike a regular boss that is just kill kill kill, they were fair fight, I'll allow you a chance to show the worth of you and your kind type thing. I think thats the only way it really could be, Demise is interdimensional and is willing to give Link a chance as he respects the will of the Hero.

As for Impa, I'm on the fence on whether of not she had it all along in the future or not. 12 Monkeys style of time travel makes it simpler, but I don't know if it really was that way. It makes sense in the way that Zelda had to have her memories unlocked and Grannie couldn't just come out and say I'm Impa Zelda everything works out good. But I think that Zelda changed the future in regards to Impa. I think that its possible it ran up the same style as 12 Monkeys, but Zelda changed one slight thing by giving the braclet, I think originally the Goddess and Impa were not sposed to bond so closely as they did.

As for there being two Zelda's only if you considered young and old versions of the same character different Zelda's. She went back to the past and slept, she still grew up in Skyloft played with Link and flirted throught life and then went to the past and slept. Just like Grannie and Impa being around in the same time period they are the same person just experiencing different parts of their life in the same time period. So I don't think there are two Zelda's.

I can see why Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Federation Starship Voyager would say that, as I agree. This whole thing is making me tired. I forgot to quote

I took it as meaning:

Demise is defeated
Demise's conciousness is sealed in the Master Sword
Demise's "essence" returns to the sealed grounds as "The Imprisoned"
Link/Zelda/Groose depart for the future, leaving the Master Sword with Impa
Impa hides the Master Sword to prevent a paradox when Link arrives at the start of his adventure
The Imprisoned attempts to escape the seal and reach his lost conciousness/sleeping Zelda
Link drops the island on The Imprisoned, finally destroying Demise's leftover essence
Girahim pops up, steals Zelda and travels to the past to free Demise before he was defeated
Return to the start


Apart from the Tree of Life seed, everything in the game makes perfect sense as a stable timeloop, where history was fulfilled, not altered.

Have you replayed the game yet? Cause Impa does indeed have the bracelet right from the start, it's usually hidden behind her braid so it's not something you would notice on your first playthrough.