TP fans who are you?

Differing opinions on how good a graphics style is one thing, but feigning ignorance so much as to say the WW is more realistic than TP is like eating a plastic banana.

I think the Zelda fanbase is very picky. Personally, and to say that Wind Waker is more realistic than TP is idiotic, and I think someone would be really stupid to say that it is. Although I think "realistic" graphics aren't realistic due to a lot of brown, I also think that people like you, Grooston, are just wrong.

Originally Posted by OneHungryHippo

I think the Zelda fanbase is very picky. Personally, and to say that Wind Waker is more realistic than TP is idiotic, and I think someone would be really stupid to say that it is. Although I think "realistic" graphics aren't realistic due to a lot of brown, I also think that people like you, Grooston, are just wrong.

You think I'm wrong? You are the guy who denied the Saturn was a 3d system, and constantly post untrue things on the forums. Graphics don't have to be uber realistic for a game itself to be realistic. TP is no more realistic than WW. WW at least has a more mature, original and better paced story (which is what I meant by realistic).

That's not..

Nevermind I'll let it go. I think both games deal with a lot of realism. But MM really takes the cake for the most relatable characters.

I don't know why everybody would hate on TP but it was a spectacular game in my opinion. The graphics were okay and the fact that it was on the Wii was even better. And Link's wolf form was my fav. part of the game. So I love TP.

Originally Posted by Grooston

You think I'm wrong? You are the guy who denied the Saturn was a 3d system, and constantly post untrue things on the forums. Graphics don't have to be uber realistic for a game itself to be realistic. TP is no more realistic than WW. WW at least has a more mature, original and better paced story (which is what I meant by realistic).

I can certainly see what you mean, but cannot fully agree with you because you've insulted my honor. Therefore, I have no respect for what you have to say.

As for the pacing, that's opinions. I think more mature story is definitely TP, though, since WW is actually a more comedic game.

Originally Posted by Skyward Sword Link

I don't know why everybody would hate on TP but it was a spectacular game in my opinion. The graphics were okay and the fact that it was on the Wii was even better. And Link's wolf form was my fav. part of the game. So I love TP.

Yeah, I agree that TP gets too much hate.

I am quite a fan of TP. I think the characters were very well thought up. The sassy sidekick, the willowy princess, and the brave and silent hero. Not to mention the great histories of Link, Zelda, and Midna's childhood friends. I cannot compare it to OoT because well...I haven't played it yet...*dodges tomato*. So far TP was my favorite for it's graphics, characters, and story. But that's just my opinion!

Originally Posted by ZerudaHime

Not to mention the great histories of Link, Zelda, and Midna's childhood friends.

When did we see Zelda and Midna's childhood friends?

Link's childhood friends were Ilia, Colin, and the 3 stooges that followed everywhere.

Zelda...idk. She was the less defined of the bunch.

Midna, though without childhood friends, had the deepest story of the 3 (I'm not gonna lay it all out for you since I already stated the details like 4 times).

And even the director of WW himself stated that the goal of WW was to make the player feel like they were the star of their own cartoon. How anyone can say that this



has more realistic graphics than this




or that a story about an 80 year old woman letter her 10-year old grandson go to a Forsaken Fortress on a ship full of Pirates to save his sister who was kidnapped by a 3-ton bird is more realistic than a story about an 18-year old teenager being considered of age to finally leave his home village and present a gift to the Royal Family, only to find that the entirety of Hyrule is covered in Twilight brought on by an insane guy who happened to come in contact with Ganondorf.

Seriously, I stand to my plastic banana statement. Like it, hate it, that's up to you. But don't try to reason your hate by saying the WW is more realistic than TP in any way, shape or form.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

or that a story about an 80 year old woman letter her 10-year old grandson go to a Forsaken Fortress on a ship full of Pirates to save his sister who was kidnapped by a 3-ton bird is more realistic than a story about an 18-year old teenager being considered of age to finally leave his home village and present a gift to the Royal Family, only to find that the entirety of Hyrule is covered in Twilight brought on by an insane guy who happened to come in contact with Ganondorf.

Seriously, I stand to my plastic banana statement. Like it, hate it, that's up to you. But don't try to reason your hate by saying the WW is more realistic than TP in any way, shape or form.

I didn't even know it was possible but you just made Twilight Princess's story sound more generic and cliched then it already is.

Originally Posted by 1984

When did we see Zelda and Midna's childhood friends?

When I said that I think I was thinking more about Link than Midna and Zelda but I wrote their names anyway.

I really liked playing with the children of Ordon. It had such a homey feel to it. It makes me feel closer to Link knowing that he is willing to play with them and to rescue them if they need it.
When the children are kidnapped and taken to no-one-knows-where, leaving behind distraught parents, I liked visit all the homes and listen to the sad music. Then, when I found the children, I went to all the homes again and told them that the children were safe. It wasn't something that I had to do but I loved it all the same. It feels like a real story.

Twilight Princess is a poor parody of Ocarina of Time in order to satisfy the childish whinings of those who thought Wind Waker wasn't 'realistic' enough. I'm sorry, does it suddenly become a cool game with Tingle lovingly rendered in humanoid prattlevision HD? Actually, creepy thought.

I know I've made this point umpteen times, but those who whined about the graphics were far too self-conscious and missed a great game, and have probably de-railed the focus of the series. In the short term, they certainly gave us a lame, 'realistic' offering, that, while alright, couldn't hold a candle to previous games. In pandering to this set of whining fans, it offered nothing new whatsoever.

Originally Posted by HouseofBees

Twilight Princess is a poor parody of Ocarina of Time in order to satisfy the childish whinings of those who thought Wind Waker wasn't 'realistic' enough. I'm sorry, does it suddenly become a cool game with Tingle lovingly rendered in humanoid prattlevision HD? Actually, creepy thought.

I know I've made this point umpteen times, but those who whined about the graphics were far too self-conscious and missed a great game, and have probably de-railed the focus of the series. In the short term, they certainly gave us a lame, 'realistic' offering, that, while alright, couldn't hold a candle to previous games. In pandering to this set of whining fans, it offered nothing new whatsoever.

It's not a parody when, on an objectively technical level, it does everything to its gameplay that OOT did on a more advanced level. Your kind's incessant whining about the game doing 'nothing new' holds just as little merit as those you claim TP itself was made to pander to. I played and thoroughly enjoyed WW, and I still call TP the better game in every area that mattered to making a good Zelda game. There's your entire logic shot in the foot. Trying to emphasize how it did "nothing new" doesn't detract or outweigh that it still did everything that matters right. Not to mention anything "new" most Zelda games do (at least as fans describe the term) are often the biggest detractors and flaws of these games. Any one flaw in WW is far more impacting and apparent than any and all TWO flaws in TP, both of which TP's progression very easily overshadows.

If TP was made for fans who whined about WW's art style, there wouldn't be more fans today who are whining about TP not having as much of an overplayed gimmick or poorly-designed gameplay element--oh, I mean, doing "nothing new". This holds especially given the fact that by the time WW actually came out, complaints towards the art style were very quickly outweighed, if not replaced, by complaints about its tedious travel method, the overemphasis on it, and the less-than-grand number of actual dungeons/things to do between them.

As for WW's story being more "original" than TP's, that's just a ♥♥♥♥ing lie when regarding the only place people look to for originality, that is, the themes and/or moral of the story. Where WW has a more-than apparent moral to its story, TP has a much more consistent theme in its story which is only strengthened by the undertones. Even if we were discussing originality in terms of just the Zelda series, pracitcally no Zelda game follows any more or less of the most common procedures than another, and the ones that do often end up being the worst games in the series due in no small part to story.

It's a matter of opinion, of course. Unfortunately, the fact remains that Twilight Princess was sorely lacking in most areas. Whereas most new installments of Zelda took risks in their going new places, alienating some and welcoming more, Twilight Princess was nothing but an apology for a game that didn't need one in the first place.

This is why Wind Waker beats Twilight Princess every time. I can, of course say things I personally dislike: the wolf sections, for instance, and the overuse of graphics, sounds and places from Ocarina of Time that didn't get a pass for the more adventurous Majora's Mask, but seems to here due to the lovely new splash of paint.

I can also say things I like about it. The majority of the dungeons are stunning, even if some of the items aren't so great; and some of the setpieces, such as on the Bridge of Eldin, are magnificent. But this is down to the gameplay and setup, and though the graphics are good, frankly, who cares? If it's a soulless rehash, it doesn't wash. One good point of yours, though, is that there are bigger flaws in the game than this, though. But these are down to personal preference. There were good parts, bad parts and awful parts. But the game itself was a non-starter, borne of a bizarre desire to criticise Nintendo for making a great game.

The lesson to be learned from this is that each Zelda has its own charms - even Twilight Princess, for me. There are just few of them.

Originally Posted by HouseofBees

Twilight Princess is a poor parody of Ocarina of Time in order to satisfy the childish whinings of those who thought Wind Waker wasn't 'realistic' enough. I'm sorry, does it suddenly become a cool game with Tingle lovingly rendered in humanoid prattlevision HD? Actually, creepy thought.

For what it's worth, I think that those of us who want a more realistic Zelda tend to have a burning hatred for Tingle.

Originally Posted by HouseofBees

It's a matter of opinion, of course. Unfortunately, the fact remains that Twilight Princess was sorely lacking in most areas. Whereas most new installments of Zelda took risks in their going new places, alienating some and welcoming more, Twilight Princess was nothing but an apology for a game that didn't need one in the first place.

That's where everything you said stops being a fact altogether. In terms of direct compare-contrast, TP does just as much in terms of its own idiosyncracies as other games. The difference is the sense of focus and emphasis on it in relation to the core gameplay. It's when Zelda games take said risks that they most commonly fall short in other areas where it would've made it a better game. Never has a Zelda game's own individual aspects from its source material come to play in a way that actually suceeds in surpassing the definitive aspects of a Zelda game that should be consistently maintained. THAT'S more of an apology that was needed since Majora's Mask. TP wasn't lacking anything that was better-played than in other Zeldas. These "risks" you're talking about are exactly why WW DOESN'T beat TP everytime (and harldly any). Things that differentiate Zeldas usually only do so in bad ways. The last time a Zelda game made good of a truly drastic change was when they made the foray into 3D with OOT, and neither WW or MM even began to improve or refine the game's most definitive qualities, instead relying on what were either underwhelming replacements or outright overplayed gimmicks. Almost no where in WW do I see a certain gameplay mechanic and not say that TP had a better equivalent. Trying to find such a superficial excuse to TP's conception as being a shoe-horned apology is just ignoring the sheer amount of depth and scale to it that proves any claim of TP being an "apology" as you describe it wholly irrelevent, if not just plain incorrect altogether; TP has all the emphasis put into the core elements of a Zelda game that MM or WW put into what ultimately became gimmicks or just bad design, but has folds more effort put into it than the aforementioned games' deviations. Calling TP anything along the lines of a sellout/apology/etc just means you don't see or get any of that.

lolz. I think we should probably just agree to disagree well argued, though.

I'm one of them!

I've only played it once though, but planning to replay it after I've finished SS. I liked it at the time, but as the years passed by I remembered less and less from it. Apart from some songs (Temple Of Time, Rutela) and Midna.

But I did like it a lot at the time, and will probably enjoy it again now that I feel that there's more to Faron, Eldin and Lanayru than it was before.