Why is Twilight Princess hated on?

Originally Posted by Mandrag

^
When I started criticizing it, it was after I played for myself and I thought was the only person in the world who didn't like it.

I always thought I was the only one who didn't like it, too, until I created an account on these forums.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

In short, there is nothing wrong with TP.

"Nothing wrong with TP"? There's a bunch of things wrong with TP, such as the ones Mandrag mentioned. What about those useless rupees? It makes you go "dadadadaaaa" every time you pick up a blue rupee when you turn on your Wii. There's also the "You can't fit it in your wallet, though, so lets put it back" crap. Even the side quests and the side quest PRIZES. Overworld is empty, theres nothing in it but a few enemies, grottos (which contain freakin' rupees), and a few Pieces of Hearts. Nothing wrong?

Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks

"Nothing wrong with TP"? There's a bunch of things wrong with TP, such as the ones Mandrag mentioned. What about those useless rupees? It makes you go "dadadadaaaa" every time you pick up a blue rupee when you turn on your Wii. There's also the "You can't fit it in your wallet, though, so lets put it back" crap. Even the side quests and the side quest PRIZES. Overworld is empty, theres nothing in it but a few enemies, grottos (which contain freakin' rupees), and a few Pieces of Hearts. Nothing wrong?

And the problems you mention can be found in just about every other Zelda game.

If problems they can be called. Honestly, what are actual fields like? Have you ever gone to savannas? To plains? To anywhere wide and open? Is there anything "there" out there? Honestly, it feels a bit more real to have a wide open space to go out into, to have be there to see and look around in. It doesn't have to be chock full of every single little thing that the world would have to offer.

Originally Posted by Dart Feld

According to people here, Twilight Princess is the only Zelda title (other than Phantom Hourglass being mentioned) to have problems. Now, I'm going to talk about Majora's Mask. OH YES.

Did Majora's Mask main plotline have pages and pages of text like the other 3D Zelda's? Not really.

Does it have a lot of dungeons to do? No, but they are challenging.

Does the game have the same impact on the series Ocarina of Time did? No.

Is it the best 3D Zelda? No, it's honestly my least favorite of the 3D titles, while I still find this game to be a master piece, meaning perfect.

Now let's talk The Wind Waker.

Did it have a deep story that kept you interested? Somewhat deep, and very interesting.

Did it have a lot of dungeons? It didn't have too many, but what keeps it intact is gorgeous scenery, clever puzzles, and long dungeons. (Somewhat.)

Was the sailing boring? No, it gave me something new that I had a lot of fun with.

Now let's talk Twilight Princess.

Does it have a lot of dialogue in the story and a deep story? Yes, there is tons and tons of dialogue, the story is original and deep, deeper than any other title, that's for sure.

Was it hard? To be honest, yeah, I found it harder than the other 3D titles (excluding Master Quest). It took me twice as long to beat this than the other titles, and I loved everything about this game.

Is it the worst Zelda game, or is it just terrible? No, it's my favorite Zelda game. It gave me countless hours of fun, and this is easily the best game ever created.

To counter your points on Majora's Mask...

It did not have to have pages and pages of text to really have interesting characters and moving scenes in the story.

The dungeons were quite challenging, some of the challenges quite difficult, certainly. It did have a rather large impact, perhaps not as large as it could have had but it certainly is far from "worth overlooking". Just keeping MM from being hated on too much or too overly criticized.

As for TP? No, the story isnt' necessarily "original". The Dark World theme with the twilight has been done often before. There are also a couple of other things throughout it that have been taken from other Zelda games. The story certainly has a good amount of originality to it, but perhaps it isn't completely original as one might think. Food for thought.

people don't like it because it had an OoT feel to it... people thought it was "trying to upstage OoT". People disliked the difficulty and how "unoriginal" the plot was... but c'mon! Seriously, in today's world, it's hard to find a plot that HASN'T been slightly influenced by another.
Just because the plot wasn't totally original doesn't mean it was a bad game.

I loved the gameplay, controls, graphics, music... everything!

You guys wanna know what really puts the cherry on the cake making TP the ultimate Wii game? There's a glitch where you can boot homebrew roms and isos by patching the save file with a boot loader that works by making epona's name to long and overwriting the game code. It's like, the only game that can do that. You can play all the games you want without making any modifications to your Wii. If you don't like TP, you can either

1. cry about it
2. ***** at others who actually like it because you either want to pull a Simon Cowell or be a troll
3. exploit this glitch and play whatever the hell you want

Originally Posted by pj777

And the problems you mention can be found in just about every other Zelda game.

No...no it can't....

No other Zelda game made you go "dadadadaaaa" with blue rupees every time you turned on the game. No other Zelda game had horrible side quest items (don't say Biggoron Sword; the Magic Armor is nothing compared to it. The Gold Skulltula side quest prize is pretty stupid though, but at least you get other items as you progress through it). No other Zelda game had such an empty world, except for maybe OoT, but at least its not so freakin' huge. The grottos do contain rupees, but at least you can hold them and not waste your time.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

You guys wanna know what really puts the cherry on the cake making TP the ultimate Wii game? There's a glitch where you can boot homebrew roms and isos by patching the save file with a boot loader that works by making epona's name to long and overwriting the game code. It's like, the only game that can do that. You can play all the games you want without making any modifications to your Wii. If you don't like TP, you can either

1. cry about it
2. ***** at others who actually like it because you either want to pull a Simon Cowell or be a troll
3. exploit this glitch and play whatever the hell you want

This does not work on my Gamecube.

Originally Posted by Dart Feld

According to people here, Twilight Princess is the only Zelda title (other than Phantom Hourglass being mentioned) to have problems. Now, I'm going to talk about Majora's Mask. OH YES.

Did Majora's Mask main plotline have pages and pages of text like the other 3D Zelda's? Not really.

I'm guessing you didn't do very many of the sidequests strewn across Termina.

Does it have a lot of dungeons to do? No, but they are challenging.

That's a good thing.

Does the game have the same impact on the series Ocarina of Time did? No.

Because Majora's Mask was a sequel to OoT, and used the same engine and graphics. Plus, many people didn't like how MM was so different from OoT.

Is it the best 3D Zelda? No, it's honestly my least favorite of the 3D titles, while I still find this game to be a master piece, meaning perfect.

...How can something be perfect and not the best at the same time?

Now let's talk The Wind Waker.

Did it have a deep story that kept you interested? Somewhat deep, and very interesting.

Did it have a lot of dungeons? It didn't have too many, but what keeps it intact is gorgeous scenery, clever puzzles, and long dungeons. (Somewhat.)

Yes. Yes.

Was the sailing boring? No, it gave me something new that I had a lot of fun with.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

Now let's talk Twilight Princess.

Does it have a lot of dialogue in the story and a deep story? Yes, there is tons and tons of dialogue, the story is original and deep, deeper than any other title, that's for sure.

I don't find blocks of text a factor in a good story. Also, original and deep? The game basically copied Ocarina of Time's storyline, tweaked it a little, and called it new again. They were even thinking about putting Sheik in the game at one point in development.

Was it hard? To be honest, yeah, I found it harder than the other 3D titles (excluding Master Quest). It took me twice as long to beat this than the other titles, and I loved everything about this game.

I found TP really obscenely long. I also didn't find it that hard, either. There were just too many dungeons that dragged on for too long and hindered my enjoyment.

Is it the worst Zelda game, or is it just terrible? No, it's my favorite Zelda game. It gave me countless hours of fun, and this is easily the best game ever created.

You're obviously mixing up Twilight Princess with Super Metroid here.

In Windwaker, every time you reset you get the Danananana with every rupee type.
Majora's Mask showed Zelda in a vision, but she was never in game. A teaser like Dark Link in TP
AoL had horrendous controls
OoS copied OoA which copied LA (they all had the same task, collect 8 items to awaken someone giving you access to the final boss and save the world)
FS had no overworld at all
PH had almost no overworld and brought in a steamboat
ST, same as above except this time a frikkin train and supposed thousand year old train tracks (WTF? Trains haven't even been around for a thousand years in real life. In fact, their only a little over 200 years old :/)
MC had multiple sword techniques of sorts which you could learn, some of which where more complicated such as the rolling stab.
Everyone in WW looked fugly. Seriously, sea-men with huge torso and tiny legs, a huge nosed kid with snot hanging out (gross), a 70% naked guy with a bowl cut, a HUGE wart on the great deku tree's face

If you complain about these things in TP, you're complaining about every Zelda game which you might as well not even call yourself a fan at all and go to someplace where people actually care about your raving like youtube.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

You guys wanna know what really puts the cherry on the cake making TP the ultimate Wii game? There's a glitch where you can boot homebrew roms and isos by patching the save file with a boot loader that works by making epona's name to long and overwriting the game code. It's like, the only game that can do that. You can play all the games you want without making any modifications to your Wii.

Games were meant to be played, not hacked and taken advantage of. Also, didn't a system update fix that bug?

Not that I know of. It wasn't a Wii problem anyway, it was a game problem with how they were loading the save data. And to the guy with the GC issue, notice I said Wii game.

Special rules apply to you. I theorize TP would make a perfect throwing star which you can entertain yourself for hours on end.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

In Windwaker, every time you reset you get the Danananana with every rupee type.

If it's in a chest. In Twilight Princess, you get the item pickup fanfare every time you boot the game up, even if you found the rupee in a grass patch.

Majora's Mask showed Zelda in a vision, but she was never in game. A teaser like Dark Link in TP

Cool.

AoL had horrendous controls

I found the controls of Adventure of Link quite intuitive, actually. Never had any trouble with them.

OoS copied OoA which copied LA (they all had the same task, collect 8 items to awaken someone giving you access to the final boss and save the world)

The Oracles games were made in tandem, along with a third, cancelled game: the Mystical Seed of Courage. And hasn't every Zelda game since A Link to the Past have the "find objects to save the world" premise?

FS had no overworld at all

I know I hate it when companies try new things and expand their franchises.

PH had almost no overworld and brought in a steamboat

And TP had a ginormous overworld with nothing in it, and a horse.

ST, same as above except this time a frikkin train and supposed thousand year old train tracks (WTF? Trains haven't even been around for a thousand years in real life. In fact, their only a little over 200 years old :/)

Actually, trains date back to the medieval era. Plus, Zelda's a fantasy game. Oho, a city floating above the clouds. I see that every day.

MC had multiple sword techniques of sorts which you could learn, some of which where more complicated such as the rolling stab.

Good. Kills enemies faster.

Everyone in WW looked fugly. Seriously, sea-men with huge torso and tiny legs, a huge nosed kid with snot hanging out (gross), a 70% naked guy with a bowl cut, a HUGE wart on the great deku tree's face

What's wrong with a new art direction? And that's just three characters, all of which are minor.

If you complain about these things in TP, you're complaining about every Zelda game which you might as well not even call yourself a fan at all and go to someplace where people actually care about your raving like youtube.

Oh, so I guess we're not allowed to criticize things and have to follow your opinion now, and only yours. C'mon guys, let's ragequit because we have opinions different from his.

^Pretty much sums up everything I was about to say.

And no, if I complain about these things in TP, I'm not complaining about every Zelda game. If you noticed, each of those flaws you listed are in different Zelda games, while almost all of them are in TP. Basically AoL has a flaw, PH has a flaw, ST has a flaw, TP has ALL the flaws.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

In Windwaker, every time you reset you get the Danananana with every rupee type.

Actually you never ever get the danananana except when opening a chest.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

Majora's Mask showed Zelda in a vision, but she was never in game. A teaser like Dark Link in TP

I honestly don't see the complaint for either side of this. How is a cameo a bad thing?

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

AoL had horrendous controls

This is just plain not true. It has hard in many unfair ways but the controls were easy to learn and responsive.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

OoS copied OoA which copied LA (they all had the same task, collect 8 items to awaken someone giving you access to the final boss and save the world)

Weird you'd leave LoZ out of that.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

FS had no overworld at all

Better than a useless overworld.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

PH had almost no overworld and brought in a steamboat

At least it had Jolene to spice things up. That's more than I can say for TP's overworld.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

ST, same as above except this time a frikkin train and supposed thousand year old train tracks (WTF? Trains haven't even been around for a thousand years in real life. In fact, their only a little over 200 years old :/)

Where are you getting this thousand year figure? The only thing the game tells us is over a century. And, anyways, those tracks are actually something like ley lines, the trains were invented to make use of tracks that already existed.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

MC had multiple sword techniques of sorts which you could learn, some of which where more complicated such as the rolling stab.

And most of which were useful.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

Everyone in WW looked fugly. Seriously, sea-men with huge torso and tiny legs, a huge nosed kid with snot hanging out (gross), a 70% naked guy with a bowl cut, a HUGE wart on the great deku tree's face

People looking ugly is not a flaw in the design. Caricatures are not supposed to be flattering.

What I'm saying is not to focus your anger on one game in specific, because its not just that one game, its Zelda altogether. I hate ST from the deepest part of my inner being, but I'll admit that it's not the only Zelda with something out of place. WW had a tingle tuner, PH had a steam boat, MM had a camera, OoT had a rumble pack (although they named it something more Zelda-ie, the Stone of Agony), LA had a yoshi doll, and so on. The biggest problem is that when all played our first Zelda games, that's what we based our opinions on. That's when we decided what canon and whats not. Did Nintendo ever say, "Link will always be the main character and reside in medieval times." I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo released a Zelda game where Link was in the future.

Originally Posted by SoulofDeity

What I'm saying is not to focus your anger on one game in specific, because its not just that one game, its Zelda altogether. I hate ST from the deepest part of my inner being, but I'll admit that it's not the only Zelda with something out of place. WW had a tingle tuner, PH had a steam boat, MM had a camera, OoT had a rumble pack (although they named it something more Zelda-ie, the Stone of Agony), LA had a yoshi doll, and so on. The biggest problem is that when all played our first Zelda games, that's what we based our opinions on. That's when we decided what canon and whats not. Did Nintendo ever say, "Link will always be the main character and reside in medieval times." I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo released a Zelda game where Link was in the future.

I like how you didn't include Twilight Princess in your "there's something out of place in every Zelda" thing.

My first Zelda was Twilight Princess. And after playing the other Zeldas, I have to admit, it's pretty mediocre.

Originally Posted by Mandrag

^
Nobody's criticizing it without playing it first. We only do that with handhelds. ST tends to get the short stick ("PH again? No thanks, that was terrible.") and I myself have been pretty harsh on OoT3D ("Where is the ****ing new content? Graphics alone do not justify a remake.").

---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------



At least you get to play the Old Kakarico shootout again. One of the few parts of that game that I truly enjoy.

one of the greatest moments in the game. I LOVE the bow in TP. Not because of the wii's pointing (I actually turn that off so I can aim with the nunchuck) but it was just awesome (the bow).

And also it featured one of my favorite weapons in Zelda history, The HawkEye. (What do you think inspired my username?) but yeah awesome stuff that bow and hawkeye combination are, awesome stuff.

Twilight Princess is not at all mediocre. It is a fun game that is worth playing. Just because it isn't what people wanted and had stuff that certain people may not have wanted, that certainly doesn't mean that it is simply "mediocre".

Originally Posted by Cereal Bawks

No...no it can't....

No other Zelda game made you go "dadadadaaaa" with blue rupees every time you turned on the game. No other Zelda game had horrible side quest items (don't say Biggoron Sword; the Magic Armor is nothing compared to it. The Gold Skulltula side quest prize is pretty stupid though, but at least you get other items as you progress through it). No other Zelda game had such an empty world, except for maybe OoT, but at least its not so freakin' huge. The grottos do contain rupees, but at least you can hold them and not waste your time.

It can't huh? Ok, let's take a look at this:

-No other Zelda game made you go "dadadadaaaa" with blue rupees every time you turned on the game.

Oh no! Don't make it go "dadadadadadadaaaaaaaaaaa" again!!!.....seriously? It only happens the first time when you start up the game again and doesn't bother the rest of the time. How about in OoT or MM when you got an item and it made you go through the slow scrolling of 10 slides to show you how to use the most useless item? It takes like a minute for it to go through the Kokori sword when it should just say "press B to stab. The end ". In TP, you tap A a couple of times and its gone. It bothers you for a second, IF that. If that's enough to set you off with a game, then you have some patience issues.

No other Zelda game had horrible side quest items (don't say Biggoron Sword; the Magic Armor is nothing compared to it. The Gold Skulltula side quest prize is pretty stupid though, but at least you get other items as you progress through it).

Ok, I won't say the Biggoron's Sword, but how about the Giant's Knife? You conveniently already mentioned every Gold Skulltula item you receive. How about the Ice Arrow? Lots of people consider that item useless. How about the mail bag in WW? Or the Magic Armor in WW? If the armor in TP is useless, than so is that. How about MM's Razor Sword. Awesome looking sword, but craps out on you after 100 strikes. How about half (or even more) of the masks in MM? I'm just touching the 3D games with the items that come up right away. I'm not even looking at a list of all the items in every game. Oh, how about the Hero's Charm in WW?

- No other Zelda game had such an empty world, except for maybe OoT, but at least its not so freakin' huge. The grottos do contain rupees, but at least you can hold them and not waste your time.

Except for just about all of them. Seriously, every Zelda overworld is just an open field/ocean with a few enemies and minor secrets to find. Your description of TP's field can describe just about every other overworld that makes an appearance in the other games.

And Rupees have always been just about useless save for one or two scenes in the stories. In WW though, you need them to pay off that creepy little midget to translate your charts. Too bad Rupees are incredibly easy to find in that game. Seriously, enemies toss like 20 rupees every time you kill them and tons of places hold like 100+ rupees in them.

So yeah, your statements can be said the same way in just about every other Zelda game out there.