Fulcon's Review of Twilight Princess (there's good in there somewhere)

Well, after bashing Twilight Princess incessantly, I think it’s time to let everyone know just how much I think is good about the game (which is more than you might think) as well as the bad. My review is going to go into five categories which are Interface, Content, Music, Graphics and Story all in random order of importance and how good of a closing line I’ve got. Each category is hit or miss, with each hit getting it a Star.

Zero Stars: Do not buy. Nintendo is ripping you off or being stupid.

One Star: If you like the series that much, you can buy or rent it, just don’t expect serious extravagant awesome.

Two Stars: Average, rent it if you like the series, but if you’re just getting in to the series, look else where.

Three Stars: Notable. Good enough for a rent, but not enough for an actual buy.

Four Stars: Buy. It’s good, and you should be proud of Nintendo that they made such a gem and of yourself for making the brilliant decision to buy it.

Five Stars: Buy A.S.A.P and place disk inside consol. Worship and bow before the game cover as the game loads. It deserves no less.

So, now that I’m geared up in my fireproof wetsuit, here we go!

Interface

If you’re buying this for the Wii, the thing that pops into your head after a few minutes of playing is how smooth and streamlined everything is. If you’re buying this for the Gamecube, the first thing that pops into your head after a few minutes of playing is how smooth and streamlined everything is….yes that repeat was intentional.

If you’re playing on the Gamecube, you notice that items have their own menu that’s easily accessible from the D-pad just like the map, and the menu is extremely easy to navigate, thus removing the need to scroll between several different menus ala Ocarina of Time.

If you’re playing on the Wii, you might notice that items have- sorry, I’ll stop that. You’ll notice that some items require you to aim them, and while aiming has always been rather easy in Zelda, the Wii Remote makes it seem completely natural, thus helping immersion by making sure the controls are invisible (thus helping suspension of disbelief). And also, you notice that you have one more item slot than you do on the Gamecube, which makes us Gamecube owners shrivel up with jealousy and contempt at your ability to switch between Arrows, Bombs and Hookshot without skipping a beat.

Camera control is very high quality again, keeping the ability to move into free-camera….and that’s it. It’s great. No gripes. At all. None. Go to the next section now.

Hit

Content

After going through the tutorial-ridden prologue, you come to Hyrule Field. First you tremble in awe at the size and wonder what dark, forbidding secrets and monsters it could be hiding from you. And then you wonder…where the heck is everything?

Hyrule Field is separated into several very large areas that have almost no monsters in them. I mean, I can understand this in the beginning of the game, but later in the game when you’ve got twenty hearts, you’d expect that monsters would be far more in number and much stronger…but nope! Thus giving us the impression that Hyrule isn’t really in any danger and that Zant/Ganondorf is stupid.

There’s also a distressing lack of optional items, and a lack of use for some needed items. Yes, the spinner was used a couple of times after its dungeon…but not nearly enough for such a cool item. I mean, I would’ve liked to see a ‘Rail Room’ in the Sky City, where it was a series of rails suspended over open air, giving you the impression that if you mess up even once, you are screwed, but instead it’s just all focused on the second Hookshot you get.

I thought good dungeon design involved incorporating every item you pick up (that’s required by the story) and only dropping the items that appeared in the beginning of the game as you progressed. But it doesn’t even use all the items that it set up for the specific dungeons, let alone later.

You see, after using your lantern to get to the forest temple, you’d think that, maybe, there’d be lots and lots or dark rooms that you need the lantern for, with a little less so in the Goron Mines and then very little in the Water Temple. However, you don’t use the lantern in a dungeon at all until the Spirit Temple which you go to after the mandatory plot twist.

There’s also the Iron Boots ability to cling to magnetic surfaces. You’d think that you’d see the magnetic areas more often after the fire dungeon, but you only see them again in one grotto. Not a good way to use such an awesome item.

As for optional items, there’s really none. Sure, there’s the Magic Armor and the Scope-thing, but you don’t need to explore for those. Instead, you buy them in a store that gets opened in TP’s equivalent to trading quest (except it requires lots of rupees). Optional items, different unique items the fulfill a specific function, (Roc’s Feather for jumping, Armor for damage soaking) that would make exploration fun. Instead you are treated to rupees, rupees and more rupees when you’re not getting pieces of hearts or hidden sword moves (most of which are cool).

Also, there’s a very large lack of side quests and reasons to talk to NPC’s to interact with you’re surroundings. Personally, I live and breathe for side quests and optional cool stuff that you can choose to get or not.

In Majora’s Mask, you gained several Mask’s which shape-shifted you into several different species of people and gained their abilities. This forms felt unique, had good controls and you generally felt good playing them. In TP you could transform into a Wolf that had questionable controls, repetitive bits and it feels like an unnecessary hallow cut-out from MM.

Again, it fills the role of two items, the lens of truth and the shovel as well as letting you go just a little faster. Combat with the Wolf is rather…sloppy. It’s somewhat easy to hit things without the energy field, but if you’re near an edge it’s good bye you. And switching between wolf-form and back again is very trying on my delicate nerves. You need to talk to Midna every time you want to shape-change, which means you have to wait that two seconds for her to come out of your shadow (when it should be instant) and then you have to cycle through her dialogue and then she transforms you, when it should just be bound to an item so you can change on the fly.

Now before TP lovers get defensive and say ‘TP had more than OoT did! And if you hate TP for lack of stuff then you must hate Ocarina’, I’m gonna enlighten you about the concept of inflation. That’s right; it doesn’t just apply to money and that big scary ‘economy’ word. It can apply to anything. Like game content. When Ocarina first rolled around, ten dollars was a lot of money (exaggeration), games weren’t nearly as complex back then as they were now (the truth) and I wasn’t required to make ‘Your Momma’ jokes to be funny (just being wacky was enough).

Now, you require sixty bucks on hand to pay for most games on most consoles(the truth), games have gotten zillions of times more complex (the truth) and I just recently gave up any attempt to be funny because I don’t like how your mom hogged the joystick (the truth). Do you see what I mean? Wind Waker had tons of fun and unique content and a lot of it came from how unique most of the islands were designed. TP tries to adjust for inflation…it just fails.

Also, Ocarina’s extra/optional content was more fun than TP’s. Just saying.

Afterthought: And was it really necessary to show us all those unnecessary cut-scenes, especially in the beginning? And I’m not referring to the story cut scenes. Those come later. I’m to the cut scenes that occur before and after every fight for a warp location. I’m talking about the cut scenes that occur whenever a bridge is taken out and I’m referring (in the early dungeons) to the cut-scenes that show us how to solve the puzzles.

These cut scenes are jarring and take me out of the game experience. If you want to call my attention to a bridge being taken out, you just have to give it one thing: A very loud noise. You don’t need to make me stop playing to let me know the bridge is gone and that I have a new portal.

And as for the puzzle cut scenes, you shouldn’t have made those in the first place! One of the allures of Zelda is the puzzle element, and the appeal is greatly reduced when you’re telling them how to solve said puzzles when they walk into the room. Thankfully, this gets reduced to bare minimum later but gosh!

Miss

Music

I’m not sure why, but music in Zelda games have never really stood out to me. Aside from a couple tidbits from Wind Waker and TP, I can’t really remember any music that was strictly OoT or MM at will, while I think of Dragon Roost Island and the Ocean Theme of Wind Waker, while I think of Midna’s Lament, Lake Hylia’s theme and of course, both games opening themes. At will.

Yes, TP had several very evocative tracks that I like very much. Midna’s Lament called forth melancholy and sadness (and was very catchy). Lake Hylia was soothing and…the Theme was just plain epic awesome.

My only gripe was the combat music in the Twilight sections in the game. That was annoying.

Other than that…

Hit

Graphics

The point of graphics is to be a selling point and to communicate the visual part of our favorite interactive medium. But since engines are powerful enough to copy photorealism almost perfectly, game developers are turning to their own art style to communicate the medium rather than make their games photorealistic because that would make every game look exactly alike.

Well, since the Wii isn’t capable of showing the graphical power of its two brethren, the selling point is out the window. So all we’re left with is the communication of visual emotions business, as well as showing off a game world that makes you thoroughly believe that it could exist.

Thankfully, the graphics of TP fulfill both roles admirably. Everything looks pretty dang nice, and the art style is reminiscent of anime while at the same time being much better looking than most. So what if the visuals are completely stark realized? They look nice and communicate exactly what the designers and programmers wanted it to communicate so it shouldn’t have to do any more. Any more than that would be going above and beyond the call of duty. That might be a good thing, but I like it as is. 

Hit

Story

Ah, Twilight Princess. You have the most entrenched story out of all the Zelda’s thus far. And thus: BEWARE OF SPOILERS.

Now before anyone gets out of their gourd, I’d like to point out that I’m writing a fantasy novel. Knowing stories is my job and I’d like to think I know more about it than your average game designer. I’ve also been gaming for most of my life, so I think I know quite a bit more about gaming than your average author.

Okay, now that we’ve gotten that done, here’s my thoughts on the story.

We got through the first twenty minutes or so without anything happening. That’s okay, we need a bit of a tutorial to tell new players how to play if they don’t know already. Then, Link receives ‘The Call’ in the form of a bunch of Bokogoblins that kidnap all the kiddies. Link pursues them, and then gets pulled into the curtain of Twilight, and we meet the “side-kick” (note the quotations) for the journey, Midna.

You see, you begin your romp through the three dungeons, getting pieces to an artifact which will allow her to stop Zant’s rule. We rescue almost all the kiddies along the way. After getting all three, Zant kicks her to the curb and forces her to get zapped by light rays. Then she gets taken to Zelda and she gets infused with Zelda’s essence, thus making her immune to light rays. Then we go get the Master Sword and get the ability to do massive damage (oh, and turn into a wolf at will).

Then we go through several more dungeons (which were far more boring than the first three), get together this dimensional mirror and go to the Twilight Zone, there we confront Zant. Then, we find out that Midna is the rightful ruler of the Twilight Zone (and that Ganondorf was behind it all along). Then, we beat Zant. And then, we go to Hyrule Castle and talk to Ganondorf. Midna does all the talking (par the course of all side kicks as Link is supposedly mute). She says, at the beginning ‘I’ve been dying to meet you.’

Hold on, we’ve been traveling together, honey. The correct word is ‘we’ve’.

Then after a few minutes of speaking (I’m listening to a fairly awesome voice-over for Ganondorf as I type this), he says how he would make a good king for the world of light. Okay, that’s fine. He’s the villain and almost omnipotent. He’s supposed to be conceited. But then Midna utters this line.

“…then I will risk everything to deny you!”

Honey, you’re just the side-kick and I’m the one that actually risking everything to…oh, who am I kidding?

So long story short, we beat Ganondorf, save Zelda and find out that Midna was beautiful all along! Thankfully, she breaks the mirror, making it so we’ll never see Ms. Sue ever again.

Do you guys see the problem I have with the plot?

Midna. The whole plot revolves around her, and it’s completely un-apologetic about it. It was started because of a coup to take over her kingdom and then to take over Zelda’s kingdom. So there’s really no hiding it, is there? Midna’s a sue. One that I intensely dislike.

Okay, I ran her through the Springhole Mary Sue Litmus test and she got a score of 51 (granted, I answered ‘yes’ to what a few fans would say ‘no’ too…and I kept in mind her post game status). If you’ve taken the test before, you know exactly what that means. Its key says to kill the character dead.

You see, when you play a video game on any console, you expect to be the main character. You’re the guy who is supposed to get all the power ups, the one everyone depends on, the go-to guy. But not in this game.

This game would have you believe that Midna’s the main character and you’re the side-kick. You’re just some hero that happened along to help Ms. Sue’s quest for righteous vengeance. This creates a serious imbalance in the plot that makes the plot feel unnatural. I mean, the back of my head is screaming ‘since Midna is the main character, why aren’t I playing her?’! It's desperately trying to find the balance between the two main characters Midna, the main character according to the story and US, the main character according to the Controllers we're holding and it's failing miserably.

Sure, some games have you be a side-kick as well, but to someone that makes you feel relevant, something she fails to do. And besides, the games have always (save for MM as far as I know) been about the Holy Trinity of Courage, Wisdom and Power (and MM still made you feel good by making you the true main character)…but in this game…no. Just, no.

The second issue with this game’s story is it’s excessive story cut-scenes. You know, the one’s with unnecessary dialogue. You see, when you’re writing a book, the more you can say with fewer words the better you are at writing. If it takes you lots of words and tons of prose and paragraphs to say something, you’re not very skilled.

Granted, I know that certain things (like how Ganondorf escaped, what happened to Hyrule, Ect. Ect.) all require a certain amount of dialogue, but certain things are inexcusable. Midna telling us about Zant after we’ve already been told about Zant once we’ve beaten the Goron Mine’s was unnecessary dialogue. There are also certain tidbits that could’ve been said by using facial expression. That’s the visual part of the medium is for; to use when words cannot describe something without sounding extremely corny and stupid.

Though you do have to give Nintendo some credit, they wanted to have their story give a lasting impression over previous Zelda’s and they certainly accomplished that. You can’t blame the story for being there…you can blame it for sucking.

Miss


So let’s take a look at our final standing, shall we?

Interface: Hit.
Content: Miss
Music: Hit
Graphics: Hit
Story: Miss

Final Ranking: 3/5.

Notable for it’s extremely smooth and streamlined interface, it’s nice music and compelling graphics but it’s lack of fun content and a suckish story drag it down from the true stardom that should’ve been its for the grabbing. It was supposed to be perfection of all the Zelda we’ve seen before…and it failed.

Crap.

This review is soley the opinion of one forum poster named Fulcon. If you wish to congratulate him on becoming Class S Flame Bait, please PM him on the boards.

Camera control is very high quality again, keeping the ability to move into free-camera….and that’s it. It’s great. No gripes. At all. None. Go to the next section now.

Not on the Wii version

Originally Posted by calc84maniac

Not on the Wii version

EDIT: After carefully re-reading your post, allow me to change my reply: Huh, you can't go free camera on the Wii? I thought you could...though thinking that is kinda dumb considering the Wii has no Camera Stick.

Very good review overall, but the one thing that I am going to have to disagree with you on is your impression of the story.

It wasn't like the developers accidentally went off track and put a greater focus on Midna. That was all intentional. The game revolves around Midna, the Twilight Princess. The entire game is named after her
I think that the idea with Midna is that she was supposed to grow into someone much MORE than Just a side-kick, and I thought they did a great job of conveying that.

I can understand how that might bother some people though.

Originally Posted by MrBaconsock

It wasn't like the developers accidentally went off track and put a greater focus on Midna. That was all intentional. The game revolves around Midna, the Twilight Princess. The entire game is named after her
I think that the idea with Midna is that she was supposed to grow into someone much MORE than Just a side-kick, and I thought they did a great job of conveying that.

I can understand how that might bother some people though.

The whole 'intentional' thing was what bugged me. The player is, supposedly, always the main character (wtih few exceptions). But since Midna is the main character according to the story, it throws the whole thing off balance and making it feel, in my opinion, like a tug of war of importance between the player and Midna, thus the off balance.

Thank you, though, for your opening compliment.

I'll read this later. But I'd just like to say TP had some of the best content I've ever played through. If it's a miss to you, then I don't know what's a hit.

*continues listening to Majora's Mask's Soundtrack*

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

I'll read this later. But I'd just like to say TP had some of the best content I've ever played through. If it's a miss to you, then I don't know what's a hit.

*continues listening to Majora's Mask's Soundtrack*

Sure, some of the content in TP was fun...there just wasn't enough of it...and not enough fun content as opposed to the boring content. Thus, the Miss.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Sure, some of the content in TP was fun...there just wasn't enough of it...and not enough fun content as opposed to the boring content. Thus, the Miss.

What's boring content? Sailing for triforce pieces? Oh wait.

Either way, I can't really think of a section in TP that could compete with TWW's boring filler. I didn't like collecting things in TWW and I didn't like it in TP. However, TP barely had any aside from the 15 minute sections. TP had some amazing areas between dungeons. It had a lot of meat where other Zeldas have nothing. Just like Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess had a build up to every dungeon, that is never a bad thing. I find it to be one of the greatest parts of any Zelda. All I'm saying is, I had a ton of fun all through out Twilight Princess. If you thought that parts of the game were boring then give the game a replay, you're really missing something. TP has some of the best content out there, and it isn't masked by loads of filler.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

After going through the tutorial-ridden prologue, you come to Hyrule Field. First you tremble in awe at the size and wonder what dark, forbidding secrets and monsters it could be hiding from you. And then you wonder…where the heck is everything?

Hyrule Field is separated into several very large areas that have almost no monsters in them. I mean, I can understand this in the beginning of the game, but later in the game when you’ve got twenty hearts, you’d expect that monsters would be far more in number and much stronger…but nope! Thus giving us the impression that Hyrule isn’t really in any danger and that Zant/Ganondorf is stupid.

Wow. I stopped reading at this point because of the sheer stupidity that I see in your post.

There was more in TP's overworld than any 3D Zelda game to date. And "almost no monsters?" Are you ****ing kidding me? It had a ton of enemies when you first walk out into Hyrule Field. And by the end of the game, there are 8 Bokoblins and about 6 Kargaroks in Faron Hyrule Field alone. In Kakariko Gorge, there are 9 Bokoblins, about 2 Kargaroks, a ton of Guays and Chus, and a hidden cave with even more enemies as well as the clawshot and boomerang puzzle in the middle of the Gorge. I could go on and on with this.

Seriously, go play the game, because this post of yours reeks of stupidity.

And that doesn't even begin to cover the tons of overworld puzzles and hidden caves, especially the huge lava cavern north of the Bridge of Eldin.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

There’s also a distressing lack of optional items, and a lack of use for some needed items. Yes, the spinner was used a couple of times after its dungeon…but not nearly enough for such a cool item.

The Spinner was used for 3 different overworld puzzles, it was used in the Temple of Time quite a bit, it was used in the City in the Sky, etc. That's not enough for you? It was also used in the Cave of Ordeals.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

I mean, I would’ve liked to see a ‘Rail Room’ in the Sky City, where it was a series of rails suspended over open air, giving you the impression that if you mess up even once, you are screwed, but instead it’s just all focused on the second Hookshot you get.

So you're criticizing the game for not including something that nobody else has ever thought of or never been promised? That would be like if I criticized Ocarina of Time for not including the ability to fly on a dragon.

And the Spinner was used quite a bit in City in the Sky, to remind you.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

I thought good dungeon design involved incorporating every item you pick up (that’s required by the story) and only dropping the items that appeared in the beginning of the game as you progressed. But it doesn’t even use all the items that it set up for the specific dungeons, let alone later.

Name on Zelda dungeon outside of TP that involves using all of your items. Because Hyrule Castle uses the vast majority of your dungeon items, including non-dungeon items, such as the Hero's Bow, the Double Clawshot, the Boomerang, the Spinner, the Ball and Chain, Bombs, your Lantern, your wolf form, etc. Name one other Zelda dungeon that does this better than TP's Hyrule Castle, and I might be able to see how your point could hold some water.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You see, after using your lantern to get to the forest temple, you’d think that, maybe, there’d be lots and lots or dark rooms that you need the lantern for, with a little less so in the Goron Mines and then very little in the Water Temple. However, you don’t use the lantern in a dungeon at all until the Spirit Temple which you go to after the mandatory plot twist.

You mean Arbiter's Grounds? Because you're wrong anyway. You also use the Lantern in Hyrule Castle and the Temple of Time.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

There’s also the Iron Boots ability to cling to magnetic surfaces. You’d think that you’d see the magnetic areas more often after the fire dungeon, but you only see them again in one grotto. Not a good way to use such an awesome item.

The Goron Mines are just that; mines. There are no other mines in the game. Why were you expecting this? Besides, you can go back to the Goron Mines or the Lava grotto any time you want.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

As for optional items, there’s really none. Sure, there’s the Magic Armor and the Scope-thing, but you don’t need to explore for those. Instead, you buy them in a store that gets opened in TP’s equivalent to trading quest (except it requires lots of rupees). Optional items, different unique items the fulfill a specific function, (Roc’s Feather for jumping, Armor for damage soaking) that would make exploration fun. Instead you are treated to rupees, rupees and more rupees when you’re not getting pieces of hearts or hidden sword moves (most of which are cool).

This is your one negative point so far that I agree with. We should have gotten much better rewards.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Also, there’s a very large lack of side quests and reasons to talk to NPC’s to interact with you’re surroundings. Personally, I live and breathe for side quests and optional cool stuff that you can choose to get or not.

Twilight Princess is not in any way lacking in sidequests, just memorable ones.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

In Majora’s Mask, you gained several Mask’s which shape-shifted you into several different species of people and gained their abilities. This forms felt unique, had good controls and you generally felt good playing them. In TP you could transform into a Wolf that had questionable controls, repetitive bits and it feels like an unnecessary hallow cut-out from MM.

Questionable controls? You mean with gameplay that makes you much faster? How are those poor controls? TP's controls are the best the series have to offer. Especially because playing with the clunkiness of a Goron transformation is horrible. It seems you should regain some experience with these games, because you've got your games mixed up. And besides, the Fierce Deity was the only mask in MM that makes you more efficient in combat than normal Link. All the others had serious weaknesses, especially punches that couldn't reach far enough in front of you to hit anything.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Again, it fills the role of two items, the lens of truth and the shovel as well as letting you go just a little faster. Combat with the Wolf is rather…sloppy. It’s somewhat easy to hit things without the energy field, but if you’re near an edge it’s good bye you. And switching between wolf-form and back again is very trying on my delicate nerves. You need to talk to Midna every time you want to shape-change, which means you have to wait that two seconds for her to come out of your shadow (when it should be instant) and then you have to cycle through her dialogue and then she transforms you, when it should just be bound to an item so you can change on the fly.

Wow. Pathetic.

1.) It is instantaneous.

2.) Cycle through her options? Transforming is the very first option there. It's always highlighted first by default.

3.) Boo hoo!

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Do you see what I mean? Wind Waker had tons of fun and unique content and a lot of it came from how unique most of the islands were designed. TP tries to adjust for inflation…it just fails.

No. TP did exactly what ALTTP did for the franchise by perfecting the gameplay formula introduced by its predecessor. TP perfected the gameplay that OoT introduced just as ALTTP perfected the gameplay introduced in LoZ. From a gameplay standpoint, which is what counts the most, TP is a superior game. It's much more refined with far better controls and far more expansive combat and a much more active overworld.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Afterthought: And was it really necessary to show us all those unnecessary cut-scenes, especially in the beginning? And I’m not referring to the story cut scenes. Those come later. I’m to the cut scenes that occur before and after every fight for a warp location. I’m talking about the cut scenes that occur whenever a bridge is taken out and I’m referring (in the early dungeons) to the cut-scenes that show us how to solve the puzzles.

You mean the ones that directly affect gameplay and take all of 10 seconds? That's not a flaw.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

These cut scenes are jarring and take me out of the game experience. If you want to call my attention to a bridge being taken out, you just have to give it one thing: A very loud noise. You don’t need to make me stop playing to let me know the bridge is gone and that I have a new portal.

Then enlighten us. How does a bridge magically being teleported away sound?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

My only gripe was the combat music in the Twilight sections in the game. That was annoying.

One other thing I agree with. It sounds like **** when the epic overworld music, especially in the climax of the theme, is interrupted by that shi**y enemy music.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

So long story short, we beat Ganondorf, save Zelda and find out that Midna was beautiful all along! Thankfully, she breaks the mirror, making it so we’ll never see Ms. Sue ever again.

How is Midna a Mary Sue when Ganondorf literally tosses her aside in every scene? Link is the only one able to beat him.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The second issue with this game’s story is it’s excessive story cut-scenes. You know, the one’s with unnecessary dialogue. You see, when you’re writing a book, the more you can say with fewer words the better you are at writing. If it takes you lots of words and tons of prose and paragraphs to say something, you’re not very skilled.

You mean the completely optional cutscenes that you can skip?

And stop comparing video games to books. There's no comparison.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Notable for it’s extremely smooth and streamlined interface, it’s nice music and compelling graphics but it’s lack of fun content and a suckish story drag it down from the true stardom that should’ve been its for the grabbing. It was supposed to be perfection of all the Zelda we’ve seen before…and it failed.

Right. That's why it's won over 30 awards and receives near 10/10 scores on nearly every review site. Get your facts straight. Your opinion =/= everyone else's.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

This review is soley the opinion of one forum poster named Fulcon. If you wish to congratulate him on becoming Class S Flame Bait, please PM him on the boards.

Honestly, nobody wants to hear fan reviews of this game any more. They're filled with false information and biased stupidity, especially when fanboys say older games did better at these things. Because they don't.

Not to mention, in the vast majority of Zelda games, many items are rarely used and many dungeon ideas go unrepeated. Megaton/Skull Hammer? Meh, you just use it, like, 10 times. The Raft, you only needed it to cross a few streams. =/ Getting the Mirror Shield is rarely used after a few reflecting puzzles. So what? Do people even spot this? Not really, unless they want to find something to whine about. It's okay to have underused items, it's a Zelda classic. It's just suddenly wrong because people need to come up with a reason to say why TP was bad.

And generally puzzles shouldn't repeat, because once you've done it once, well...you've already figured everything out and it losses it's charm fast.

Originally Posted by Link92

Wow. I stopped reading at this point because of the sheer stupidity that I see in your post.

There was more in TP's overworld than any 3D Zelda game to date. And "almost no monsters?" Are you ****ing kidding me? It had a ton of enemies when you first walk out into Hyrule Field. And by the end of the game, there are 8 Bokoblins and about 6 Kargaroks in Faron Hyrule Field alone. In Kakariko Gorge, there are 9 Bokoblins, about 2 Kargaroks, a ton of Guays and Chus, and a hidden cave with even more enemies as well as the clawshot and boomerang puzzle in the middle of the Gorge. I could go on and on with this.

Seriously, go play the game, because this post of yours reeks of stupidity.

And that doesn't even begin to cover the tons of overworld puzzles and hidden caves, especially the huge lava cavern north of the Bridge of Eldin.

You're 'enough' is not enough for me. By the end of the game, I was expecting the number of enemies to be near the thirties and to have knights running after you on horse back.

Incidentally, if you stopped reading, why are still quoting my review?

The Spinner was used for 3 different overworld puzzles, it was used in the Temple of Time quite a bit, it was used in the City in the Sky, etc. That's not enough for you? It was also used in the Cave of Ordeals.

It was NEVER used in the City in the Sky. Have you been feeling all right?

So you're criticizing the game for not including something that nobody else has ever thought of or never been promised? That would be like if I criticized Ocarina of Time for not including the ability to fly on a dragon.

And the Spinner was used quite a bit in City in the Sky, to remind you.

There's a difference between natural progression and out right fantasizing. I can't help it if I thought TP's level design was complete crap. How many games have you played, anyway?

And no it wasn't. Or not in the cool way.

Name on Zelda dungeon outside of TP that involves using all of your items. Because Hyrule Castle uses the vast majority of your dungeon items, including non-dungeon items, such as the Hero's Bow, the Double Clawshot, the Boomerang, the Spinner, the Ball and Chain, Bombs, your Lantern, your wolf form, etc. Name one other Zelda dungeon that does this better than TP's Hyrule Castle, and I might be able to see how your point could hold some water.

None, because none of them do that. But the argument still holds water because it only used each item for about...a single room.

You mean Arbiter's Grounds? Because you're wrong anyway. You also use the Lantern in Hyrule Castle and the Temple of Time.

Yeah, both way after the mandatory plot twist and way after it should've gotten it's face time and then forgotten.

The Goron Mines are just that; mines. There are no other mines in the game. Why were you expecting this? Besides, you can go back to the Goron Mines or the Lava grotto any time you want.

And your point is? It's called acceptible breaks from reality. And besides, there's ways to have a magnetic surface, like a magical surface or something.

This is your one negative point so far that I agree with. We should have gotten much better rewards.

Twilight Princess is not in any way lacking in sidequests, just memorable ones.

You mean mini-games. Twilight Princess had only four side-quests. And if they arn't memorable, isn't that a problem in of itself.

Questionable controls? You mean with gameplay that makes you much faster? How are those poor controls? TP's controls are the best the series have to offer. Especially because playing with the clunkiness of a Goron transformation is horrible. It seems you should regain some experience with these games, because you've got your games mixed up. And besides, the Fierce Deity was the only mask in MM that makes you more efficient in combat than normal Link. All the others had serious weaknesses, especially punches that couldn't reach far enough in front of you to hit anything.

The shape shifting isn't supposed to make you more efficient in combat! They're supporting roles! I actually didn't have a problem with the Goron Mask (I was very good at using it) because it was SUPPOSED to be a Tank! A frickan indestructable pinball! But wolves are sleek, speedy predators and the fact that Link is not sleek (though he is a little speedy) and is very awkward to control adds to reasons why I hate using it!

Incidentally, I gave it a point for good controls, and the fact that the Wolf gets a section out of it to complain about it kinda shows how bad I think it is.

Wow. Pathetic.

1.) It is instantaneous.

2.) Cycle through her options? Transforming is the very first option there. It's always highlighted first by default.

3.) Boo hoo!

#1: No it's not.

#2: I don't WANT to talk to Midna! And I only want to push one button to transform into the wolf when I have to, not that several second process that jars me out of the game-play!

#3: Yeah, you're IQ melted out of your ears during infancy, didn't it?

No. TP did exactly what ALTTP did for the franchise by perfecting the gameplay formula introduced by its predecessor. TP perfected the gameplay that OoT introduced just as ALTTP perfected the gameplay introduced in LoZ. From a gameplay standpoint, which is what counts the most, TP is a superior game. It's much more refined with far better controls and far more expansive combat and a much more active overworld.

#1: No it did not. TP perfected some parts, sure, but not enough to be considered the best game ever. From a gameplay standpoint, it failed spectacularly. Not enough enemies, way to easy (with an easy fix), far to easy to spot the plot rails (thus killing suspension of disbelieve).

You mean the ones that directly affect gameplay and take all of 10 seconds? That's not a flaw.

You wern't even paying attention to the point. It jolted me out of the gameplay and made me stop playing to watch a pointless mini movie. It affected my immersion and they have to go.

Then enlighten us. How does a bridge magically being teleported away sound?

Like it did in the cinimatic. ONLY MUCH LOUDER.

One other thing I agree with. It sounds like **** when the epic overworld music, especially in the climax of the theme, is interrupted by that shi**y enemy music.

How is Midna a Mary Sue when Ganondorf literally tosses her aside in every scene? Link is the only one able to beat him.

The Sue you're thinking of is called a GodModeSue. The type of Sue that Midna is is a combination between SympatheticSue and the JerkSue with varying degrees of balance depending on where you are in the game.

EDIT: Oh, and she just has a dash of BlackHoleSue for good measure.

You mean the completely optional cutscenes that you can skip?

Can't skip them. I checked before writing this bit.

And stop comparing video games to books. There's no comparison.

Yes there is. It has as much in common with a book as it does a movie, and that's that it, sometimes (when it's not, you're right there is no comparison) is telling a story.

The fact that I judge every story, Video Game, Movie or Book with a disection table and am able to tell, I think, where a comparison is adequet and when something is getting in the way of the other is what makes me able to tell what a bad story is. TP had a horrendous story.

Right. That's why it's won over 30 awards and receives near 10/10 scores on nearly every review site. Get your facts straight. Your opinion =/= everyone else's.

Note the ending note. I know this is all my opinion. In fact all of that is their opinion too. And I would say that their opinion=/= everyone elses opinion, as there's a lot of critism for it.

Honestly, nobody wants to hear fan reviews of this game any more. They're filled with false information and biased stupidity, especially when fanboys say older games did better at these things. Because they don't.

Oh, but they do want to hear this, otherwise they wouldn't click on my papers and reviews, would they? And wouldn't you call those so-called 'professional reviewers' fans of the series?

Hey, nothing I said was outright false, just my opinion. And claiming something is biased is just plain stupid on your part because EVERYTHING is biased.

And did you miss what I said about 'Content Inflation'? TP failed to keep up and failed. Ocarina was right on the money and was quite awesome.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

What's boring content? Sailing for triforce pieces? Oh wait.

Either way, I can't really think of a section in TP that could compete with TWW's boring filler. I didn't like collecting things in TWW and I didn't like it in TP. However, TP barely had any aside from the 15 minute sections. TP had some amazing areas between dungeons. It had a lot of meat where other Zeldas have nothing. Just like Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess had a build up to every dungeon, that is never a bad thing. I find it to be one of the greatest parts of any Zelda. All I'm saying is, I had a ton of fun all through out Twilight Princess. If you thought that parts of the game were boring then give the game a replay, you're really missing something. TP has some of the best content out there, and it isn't masked by loads of filler.

Combat was rather boring once you got past the first half of the game, because so little actually challenged you. Darknuts were especially challenging, but you don't see them everywhere. Ergo, I was hoping for some more challenging mooks to keep me busy, but Nintendo didn't provide.

The puzzles were simple and not unique in the Zelda series (some variety would be nice). And the Triforce pieces? The only boring content in Windwaker. Everything else was awesome.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Not to mention, in the vast majority of Zelda games, many items are rarely used and many dungeon ideas go unrepeated. Megaton/Skull Hammer? Meh, you just use it, like, 10 times. The Raft, you only needed it to cross a few streams. =/ Getting the Mirror Shield is rarely used after a few reflecting puzzles. So what? Do people even spot this? Not really, unless they want to find something to whine about. It's okay to have underused items, it's a Zelda classic. It's just suddenly wrong because people need to come up with a reason to say why TP was bad.

And generally puzzles shouldn't repeat, because once you've done it once, well...you've already figured everything out and it losses it's charm fast.

Well, I know THAT, I just wanted to see the items dissapear out of use at a fairly regular natural rate and maybe crop up once or twice after they're time had come. I would like to think that'd make TP's dungeons bigger. Yes, puzzles arn't supposed to repeat, that's true...but I'd like to see lots of variaty when the puzzles DO repeat.

I'd just like to say that, your awesome Link92.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Sure, some of the content in TP was fun...there just wasn't enough of it...and not enough fun content as opposed to the boring content. Thus, the Miss.

And we're comparing this to?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You're 'enough' is not enough for me. By the end of the game, I was expecting the number of enemies to be near the thirties and to have knights running after you on horse back.

Name a Zelda game that has exactly as you have said.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Incidentally, if you stopped reading, why are still quoting my review?

Don't be a smartass.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

It was NEVER used in the City in the Sky. Have you been feeling all right?

Hahahaha, have you even played the game?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

There's a difference between natural progression and out right fantasizing. I can't help it if I thought TP's level design was complete crap. How many games have you played, anyway?

That's your opinion.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You mean mini-games. Twilight Princess had only four side-quests. And if they arn't memorable, isn't that a problem in of itself.

Side-quests don't make a game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The shape shifting isn't supposed to make you more efficient in combat! They're supporting roles! I actually didn't have a problem with the Goron Mask (I was very good at using it) because it was SUPPOSED to be a Tank! A frickan indestructable pinball! But wolves are sleek, speedy predators and the fact that Link is not sleek (though he is a little speedy) and is very awkward to control adds to reasons why I hate using it!

That's YOUR opinion. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean that something is wrong with the game. Its just YOUR personal preference. I for one, loved playing as the wolf.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

#1: No it did not. TP perfected some parts, sure, but not enough to be considered the best game ever. From a gameplay standpoint, it failed spectacularly. Not enough enemies, way to easy (with an easy fix), far to easy to spot the plot rails (thus killing suspension of disbelieve).

How so?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The fact that I judge every story, Video Game, Movie or Book with a disection table and am able to tell, I think, where a comparison is adequet and when something is getting in the way of the other is what makes me able to tell what a bad story is. TP had a horrendous story.

That's your opinion. I thought Twilight Princess had a great story.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Note the ending note. I know this is all my opinion. In fact all of that is their opinion too. And I would say that their opinion=/= everyone elses opinion, as there's a lot of critism for it.

You sure are a big contradiction. You state your opinion as fact above, but now your saying that you its your opinion? Make up your mind?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Oh, but they do want to hear this, otherwise they wouldn't click on my papers and reviews, would they? And wouldn't you call those so-called 'professional reviewers' fans of the series?

Those 'professional reviewers' have jobs based around reviewing games, and know how to review them properly. And properly is by reviewing them without comparing them to previous games in the series, and saying that they weren't as good because of the previous games. They review them based on how they were in general.

Also, they have more experience with reviewing then you do. They know what they are talking about.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And did you miss what I said about 'Content Inflation'? TP failed to keep up and failed. Ocarina was right on the money and was quite awesome.

And what the hell does that mean?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Combat was rather boring once you got past the first half of the game, because so little actually challenged you. Darknuts were especially challenging, but you don't see them everywhere. Ergo, I was hoping for some more challenging mooks to keep me busy, but Nintendo didn't provide.

That's your opinion. I thought Twilight Princess was challenging, and fun.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Well, I know THAT, I just wanted to see the items dissapear out of use at a fairly regular natural rate and maybe crop up once or twice after they're time had come.

...which they do.


Seriously, have you even played this game?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You're 'enough' is not enough for me. By the end of the game, I was expecting the number of enemies to be near the thirties and to have knights running after you on horse back.

Fine. Unlike you, I'll use facts in my example below.

Faron Hyrule Field: 7 Bokoblins, 5-6 Kargaroks, 5 Bombskits
Total: 17 - 18 enemies

Kakariko Gorge: 9 Bokoblins, 2 Kargaroks, 4 Chus, 10+ Guays
Total: 25+ enemies

Eldin Hyrule Field: 11 Bulbins, 3 Bulbos, 4-5 Kargaroks
Total: 18 - 19 enemies

Northern Eldin/Lanayru: 6 Bulblins, 3 Tektites, 6 Lizalfos, 20+ Guays (in two trees), 4 Tektites (2 Blue, 2 Red)
Total: 39 enemies

The rest of Lanayru: 2 Lizalfos, 9 Bulblins, 2 Guays, 4 Stalhounds, 4 Chus, 4 Helmasaurs, 10+ Deku Babas/Baba Serpents
Total: 36 enemies

Total individual enemies in Hyrule Field: 125 - 137

More than any number of enemies from the overworld of any previous 3D Zelda game. Are you now satisfied with the enemies? Keep in mind that this is during the second half of the game. And I didn't even count enemies located in hidden grottos, poes, enemies in Gerudo Desert, Snowpeak, or the Twilight Realm areas of the game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

It was NEVER used in the City in the Sky. Have you been feeling all right?

Enlighten me, then. What did you use to expand the bridges?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

There's a difference between natural progression and out right fantasizing. I can't help it if I thought TP's level design was complete crap. How many games have you played, anyway?

Many. And I consider Twilight Princess to have the best dungeons. They're elaborate enough to provide a good challenge, while at the same time being just linear enough to prevent horrible confusion, with the exception of the Lakebed Temple.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And no it wasn't. Or not in the cool way.

It was used to extend the bridges. It was used. Whether or not it was "cool" enough is irrelevant, because your point about it not being used is flat out wrong.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

None, because none of them do that. But the argument still holds water because it only used each item for about...a single room.

That's still more final dungeon use for nearly all dungeon items than any other game in the series. So no, your argument holds no water at all.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Yeah, both way after the mandatory plot twist and way after it should've gotten it's face time and then forgotten.

I can find countless uses for nearly all of my items outside of dungeons. It requires creativity on the part of the player. If you lack that creativity, it's your own fault that those items saw little use. I even find great use in the Dominion Rod, allowing me to get to the top of the Bridge of Eldin and knock the Bulblin at the top right off his post. Then snipe the Bulbin riders to kingdom come.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And your point is? It's called acceptible breaks from reality. And besides, there's ways to have a magnetic surface, like a magical surface or something.

And who's fault is it that YOU were personally unsatisfied with its use?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You mean mini-games. Twilight Princess had only four side-quests. And if they arn't memorable, isn't that a problem in of itself.

No, I don't mean minigames. TP had enough sidequests for my taste. My only problem with them, as I alread said, is that, yes, the rewards were not very useful. This is one of the very few flaws I find with the game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The shape shifting isn't supposed to make you more efficient in combat! They're supporting roles! I actually didn't have a problem with the Goron Mask (I was very good at using it) because it was SUPPOSED to be a Tank! A frickan indestructable pinball! But wolves are sleek, speedy predators and the fact that Link is not sleek (though he is a little speedy) and is very awkward to control adds to reasons why I hate using it!

Wolf Link uses the same control scheme as normal Link. So if you had no problem with normal Link's controls, you should have had no problems controlling wolf Link. Maybe you just don't know how to play?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

#1: No it's not.

Good argument. It literally takes one second to bring up the transformation mini-menu.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

#2: I don't WANT to talk to Midna! And I only want to push one button to transform into the wolf when I have to, not that several second process that jars me out of the game-play!

Jars you out of gameplay? How? Are you that horribly impatient that you can't wait a half of a second to press one extra button? You must hate OoT and MM, then, considering the fact that it takes 5 days to go through your subscreens.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

#3: Yeah, you're IQ melted out of your ears during infancy, didn't it?

Good one. Before you attack my IQ, you should read the quotes of yours that I debunked quite effectively, at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

#1: No it did not. TP perfected some parts, sure, but not enough to be considered the best game ever. From a gameplay standpoint, it failed spectacularly.

It has far more expansive and refined gameplay than OoT. In OoT, your attacks, especially jump attacks, could miss while Z-Targeting, because the Kokiri Sword and Master Sword in that game were far too short. What good is a lock-on targeting system if it makes your attacks LESS accurate? The worst part about this is the fact that jump attacks miss way more often than they should, and if you miss and try to use it again, Link will continue to jump in the wrong direction until you manually turn him around.

In TP, you get a ton of sword techniques and variation in combos, jump attacks aren't slow anymore, sword fighting is much more fluid and natural, and projectile aiming (Wii) is literally perfect. And in the extremely rare case where your jump attacks miss, Link instantly turns back around to face the enemy, so your next jump attack is pretty much a guaranteed hit.

Horseback combat in TP is also far more expansive, and without the horrible clunkiness of OoT's horseback riding. It's no longer a pain in the ass to turn Epona around or get her to jump over something, and you now have horseback battles where you can use your sword.

It failed spectacularly? You have got to be kidding me. I think you've got the wrong game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Not enough enemies

So over 120 individual overworld enemies, not including hidden grotto enemies, poes, Gerudo Desert enemies, Snowpeak enemies, Twilight enemies, and dungeon enemies isn't enough for you?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

, way to easy (with an easy fix)

The only difficulty in the series (with the exception of ALTTP) has come from controller limitations. I'll prove it below, using only the console titles, as the hand-held titles all use the same basic control scheme as ALTTP (except for PH, which I will include)

LoZ: You could only stab directly in front of you in 4 different directions. 'Nuff said.

AoL: It's a sidescroller.

ALTTP: The only exception. It allowed you to swing your sword horizontally to attack enemies at your side and you could move diagonally, but the bosses still did plenty of damage.

OoT: Horrible clunkiness in combat.

MM: Improved on OoT, but the alternate forms kind of sucked at combat compared to normal Link. Fierce Deity Link, however, made you godlike.

WW: Not very challenging due to good controls.

TP: Not very challenging due to perfect controls and extremely well-polished and refined combat.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You wern't even paying attention to the point. It jolted me out of the gameplay and made me stop playing to watch a pointless mini movie. It affected my immersion and they have to go.

No they don't "have to go." They explained important gameplay details that we needed to know.


Like it did in the cinimatic. ONLY MUCH LOUDER. [/QUOTE]

You're telling me that you would know without even witnessing it or looking at it afterward that you would know from that one noise that a bridge was being teleported away by Shadow Beasts from the Twilight Realm. Wow. Is Eiji Aonuma your dad or something?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The Sue you're thinking of is called a GodModeSue. The type of Sue that Midna is is a combination between SympatheticSue and the JerkSue with varying degrees of balance depending on where you are in the game.

EDIT: Oh, and she just has a dash of BlackHoleSue for good measure.

That was her character. And she wasn't a Mary Sue character, she was a developed character. People within entertainment fandoms and fanfiction circles are so afraid their characters will become Mary Sues that they don't even bother to give them character development or any interesting traits.

Character development does not make a character a Mary Sue, and the fact that she desperately needed Link's help to do everything and the fact that Link and the village children played a huge role in the story made him quite important.

He was just like she was in his goals. He only helped her at first because it was convenient for his mission to save his friends, just as she helped him because it was convenient for her mission to kill Zant.

And while I also dislike how Ganondorf basically ignores Link during the attack on Hyrule Castle, he more than made up for it by tossing Midna aside and getting his ass handed to him by Link.

The way he repeatedly defeated Midna seemed to be his way of saying "Link, Zelda, and myself are the Triforce bearers, the real stars of the game. Stand aside. This is bigger than you."

It was made even more satisfying that he knew about how Link and Zelda cared about Midna, and vice-versa.

"Shadow has been moved by light, it seems...how amusing."

There was also the scene where he crushed the Fused Shadow right in front of Link and Zelda as a giant **** you to the both of them.

I also liked how Link finally had a personal reason for killing Ganondorf beyond "You're evil and I have to stop you." This time, he wanted revenge against Ganondorf for killing his friend.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Can't skip them. I checked before writing this bit.

There's this little button on the Wii remote with a - sign next to the home button. It lets you skip those "long" cutscenes with "pointless dialog" that you claim you can't skip.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

TP had a horrendous story.

How so? Stop stating your opinions as fact.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Oh, but they do want to hear this, otherwise they wouldn't click on my papers and reviews, would they?

They (including myself) clicked on this thread because you lured them in by saying you were writing a review for a game that most Zelda fans truly enjoy. The whiny bi**hes who hunt for TP's flaws and ignore the flaws in older games to put those games on a pedestal are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And wouldn't you call those so-called 'professional reviewers' fans of the series?

Usually, yes, but most of the time, they aren't whiny fanboys like many people on the online forums for this franchise, and that's why I will always trust the word of a professional critic who isn't a diehard fan but still enjoys the series over a "long time fan." Critics don't point out things they do or don't like, they point out things that are good or bad. There's a big difference there. They aren't nostalgia blinded dip****s or morons who just want something to complain about. They look at how well the gameplay and controls function, instead of wearing rose-tinted nostalgia goggles and picking out flaws no objective person would even notice or care about while comparing older games to newer ones.

So yes, professional critics are far more reliable on fans from a fanbase that hates the games more than the non-fans. How can you call yourself a fan if you complain about the franchise more than anyone else? There's a funny quote on TV Tropes, maybe you've heard of it, that says:

"You know I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anyone else."

Hey, nothing I said was outright false, just my opinion. And claiming something is biased is just plain stupid on your part because EVERYTHING is biased.

And did you miss what I said about 'Content Inflation'? TP failed to keep up and failed. Ocarina was right on the money and was quite awesome.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The puzzles were simple and not unique in the Zelda series (some variety would be nice).

I fail to see how this is true, but okay.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And the Triforce pieces? The only boring content in Windwaker. Everything else was awesome.

But tedious sailing across endless blue wasn't boring?


If people have negative opinions about TP, that's fine with me, but you better not then proceed to make up complete bull**** that isn't even true or doesn't matter and try to call it a bad game for having one or two flaws. Do you guys even know what a bad game is? A bad game is E.T or the CD-i games or Superman 64. And TP in no way fits that description.

Nobody I have ever heard complain about TP has ever listed flaws that aren't much worse in previous titles and call things flaws that many people enjoy. The only flaws I see with TP are the following.

1.) Not enough exploration rewards that are actually useful. Rupees are the perfect example of this.

3.) Enemies don't do enough damage.

4.) Ganondorf and Zelda don't have enough screen time.

If you just chill on Eldin Field you can spend a good 2 hours just killing stuff. I find it especially fun to stay dismounted with bomb arrows.

In other news...WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I got accepted to the first college I applied to! I'm. So. Happy!

Originally Posted by Link92

Fine. Unlike you, I'll use facts in my example below.

Faron Hyrule Field: 7 Bokoblins, 5-6 Kargaroks, 5 Bombskits
Total: 17 - 18 enemies

Kakariko Gorge: 9 Bokoblins, 2 Kargaroks, 4 Chus, 10+ Guays
Total: 25+ enemies

Eldin Hyrule Field: 11 Bulbins, 3 Bulbos, 4-5 Kargaroks
Total: 18 - 19 enemies

Northern Eldin/Lanayru: 6 Bulblins, 3 Tektites, 6 Lizalfos, 20+ Guays (in two trees), 4 Tektites (2 Blue, 2 Red)
Total: 39 enemies

The rest of Lanayru: 2 Lizalfos, 9 Bulblins, 2 Guays, 4 Stalhounds, 4 Chus, 4 Helmasaurs, 10+ Deku Babas/Baba Serpents
Total: 36 enemies

Total individual enemies in Hyrule Field: 125 - 137

More than any number of enemies from the overworld of any previous 3D Zelda game. Are you now satisfied with the enemies? Keep in mind that this is during the second half of the game. And I didn't even count enemies located in hidden grottos, poes, enemies in Gerudo Desert, Snowpeak, or the Twilight Realm areas of the game.

Okay, fine. I just still felt it wasn't enough. You couldn't tell you were near the end of the game if you didn't look at the interface. I suppose around three hundred enemies would have been better. And I'm not sure half of the mobs you listed count due to how pathetically weak they are late in the game.

Enlighten me, then. What did you use to expand the bridges?

Didn't I correct my mistake?

Many. And I consider Twilight Princess to have the best dungeons. They're elaborate enough to provide a good challenge, while at the same time being just linear enough to prevent horrible confusion, with the exception of the Lakebed Temple.

And I find that you're horribly, horribly wrong. Except for the early temples. Aside from some early gripes those were great.

It was used to extend the bridges. It was used. Whether or not it was "cool" enough is irrelevant, because your point about it not being used is flat out wrong.

Okay, I should've made this clearer: I wanted the spinner to be used on rails, not activating rediculously plain bridges. Happy now?

That's still more final dungeon use for nearly all dungeon items than any other game in the series. So no, your argument holds no water at all.

No, it still holds water because that dungeon was barely any fun. Okay?

I can find countless uses for nearly all of my items outside of dungeons. It requires creativity on the part of the player. If you lack that creativity, it's your own fault that those items saw little use. I even find great use in the Dominion Rod, allowing me to get to the top of the Bridge of Eldin and knock the Bulblin at the top right off his post. Then snipe the Bulbin riders to kingdom come.

Yes, did you happen to find those magnetic surfaces I asked for? How about the roller coaster rails? And is sniping them really nessescary? What happened to your precious horse mounted combat.

And who's fault is it that YOU were personally unsatisfied with its use?

My high standards. And I'm not lowering them. I just telling you how I saw the game. It's your right to think whatever you like, but out-right insulting me (though those are fun to return) is not the way to convince me I'm wrong.

No, I don't mean minigames. TP had enough sidequests for my taste. My only problem with them, as I alread said, is that, yes, the rewards were not very useful. This is one of the very few flaws I find with the game.

Yes you do. TP didn't have nearly enough side-quests to even be called an adventure game.

Wolf Link uses the same control scheme as normal Link. So if you had no problem with normal Link's controls, you should have had no problems controlling wolf Link. Maybe you just don't know how to play?

Bull-crap. Same control-scheme? Sure. Same controls and manner of play? NO. Does not work.

Good argument. It literally takes one second to bring up the transformation mini-menu.

See below response.

Jars you out of gameplay? How? Are you that horribly impatient that you can't wait a half of a second to press one extra button? You must hate OoT and MM, then, considering the fact that it takes 5 days to go through your subscreens.

Yes, I am that blasted impatient, dang you! And I happen to know several people (who have lives, unlike me) who were put off by those cut-scenes!

Good one. Before you attack my IQ, you should read the quotes of yours that I debunked quite effectively, at least in my opinion.

Yes, crappy logic definantly debunks good logic. Yes, I can see your warped, twisted views coming into focus now...

It has far more expansive and refined gameplay than OoT. In OoT, your attacks, especially jump attacks, could miss while Z-Targeting, because the Kokiri Sword and Master Sword in that game were far too short. What good is a lock-on targeting system if it makes your attacks LESS accurate? The worst part about this is the fact that jump attacks miss way more often than they should, and if you miss and try to use it again, Link will continue to jump in the wrong direction until you manually turn him around.

Yeah, but Ocarina was fun.

And didn't I already tell you that I gave TP points for it's refined controls (which does not make up all of game-play, sad to tell you)? And OoT's lock on system served me just fine.

In TP, you get a ton of sword techniques and variation in combos, jump attacks aren't slow anymore, sword fighting is much more fluid and natural, and projectile aiming (Wii) is literally perfect. And in the extremely rare case where your jump attacks miss, Link instantly turns back around to face the enemy, so your next jump attack is pretty much a guaranteed hit.

In TP you get SEVEN sword techniques, not all of which are useful, you get no real additions to your combos. (Incidentally, I own the Gamecube version). And again, didn't I give TP points for it's refined controls? I did, didn't I. I just knocked it for it's lack of content.

Horseback combat in TP is also far more expansive, and without the horrible clunkiness of OoT's horseback riding. It's no longer a pain in the ass to turn Epona around or get her to jump over something, and you now have horseback battles where you can use your sword.

Yeah, but there's only one area where it sees any actual use and that's directly above Kakariko. The enemies never get any tougher or smarter so it got boring very quickly.

It failed spectacularly? You have got to be kidding me. I think you've got the wrong game.

You know who else fails spectacularly? You. Yes you, Link92! You and your blasted fan-boyism is standing in the way of logic and intelligence.

So over 120 individual overworld enemies, not including hidden grotto enemies, poes, Gerudo Desert enemies, Snowpeak enemies, Twilight enemies, and dungeon enemies isn't enough for you?

It doesn't really have an impact on my gameplay...so no. No it's not.

The only difficulty in the series (with the exception of ALTTP) has come from controller limitations. I'll prove it below, using only the console titles, as the hand-held titles all use the same basic control scheme as ALTTP (except for PH, which I will include)

And that needs to change. Badly.

LoZ: You could only stab directly in front of you in 4 different directions. 'Nuff said.

Never beat this game, though I am trying.

AoL: It's a sidescroller.

And I love this game.

ALTTP: The only exception. It allowed you to swing your sword horizontally to attack enemies at your side and you could move diagonally, but the bosses still did plenty of damage.

Never played it.

OoT: Horrible clunkiness in combat.

I honestly never got that feeling.

MM: Improved on OoT, but the alternate forms kind of sucked at combat compared to normal Link. Fierce Deity Link, however, made you godlike.

The point of the Masks (aside from Fierce Diety) wasn't to make you better at combat. It was normal Link's job to be better at combat.

WW: Not very challenging due to good controls.

But mostly due to sucky enemies.

TP: Not very challenging due to perfect controls and extremely well-polished and refined combat.

And needs better enemies.

No they don't "have to go." They explained important gameplay details that we needed to know.

You realize that the grand majority of those didn't explain important game-play aspects? No, I didn't think you did.

ou're telling me that you would know without even witnessing it or looking at it afterward that you would know from that one noise that a bridge was being teleported away by Shadow Beasts from the Twilight Realm. Wow. Is Eiji Aonuma your dad or something?

No, dummy. A loud noise would tell me that something really big is happening behind you, and you need to turn around right now. That way, if I've played the game before, I already know what's happening and I don't need to turn around.

That was her character. And she wasn't a Mary Sue character, she was a developed character. People within entertainment fandoms and fanfiction circles are so afraid their characters will become Mary Sues that they don't even bother to give them character development or any interesting traits.

No, she was very much a Mary Sue, because she stole the spot light from Link and was 'MOAR SPESHULLLL!11!!111' than Link was when the game is supposed to be about Link.

And did you even take the test for Midna? If you didn't, you don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you're in denial.

Character development does not make a character a Mary Sue, and the fact that she desperately needed Link's help to do everything and the fact that Link and the village children played a huge role in the story made him quite important.

You're right, character development doesn't make someone a Mary Sue. It's what they grow into that determines wether or not they are Sues. Midna was a Sue.

He was just like she was in his goals. He only helped her at first because it was convenient for his mission to save his friends, just as she helped him because it was convenient for her mission to kill Zant.

The. Game. Was. Supposed. To. Be. About. Link. Because he's the main character and he's the one you're controlling.

And while I also dislike how Ganondorf basically ignores Link during the attack on Hyrule Castle, he more than made up for it by tossing Midna aside and getting his ass handed to him by Link.

Your point? He didn't even know Link existed until he came before him, and then ignored him until the last second. That doesn't make it any better in my opinion.

The way he repeatedly defeated Midna seemed to be his way of saying "Link, Zelda, and myself are the Triforce bearers, the real stars of the game. Stand aside. This is bigger than you."

Yeah, but it shouldn't have been just that that said that. The entire plot should've been saying this. The Triforce wasn't even brought up until the last few minutes of the game, right before the boss fight. This made it feel like the Triforces sudden importance was forced. In a game that's supposed to be about the Triforce.

It was made even more satisfying that he knew about how Link and Zelda cared about Midna, and vice-versa.

"Shadow has been moved by light, it seems...how amusing."

That line could've been referring to how Zelda was inhabiting Midna at the time. He probably wasn't talking about Link at all!

There was also the scene where he crushed the Fused Shadow right in front of Link and Zelda as a giant **** you to the both of them.

Thus making me wonder why we went to get them at all. Seems kind of pointless if it just gets blasted aside like nobodies buisness.

I also liked how Link finally had a personal reason for killing Ganondorf beyond "You're evil and I have to stop you." This time, he wanted revenge against Ganondorf for killing his friend.

Okay, you have me there.

There's this little button on the Wii remote with a - sign next to the home button. It lets you skip those "long" cutscenes with "pointless dialog" that you claim you can't skip.

I. own. the. Gamecube. Version. How many times to I have to say this? Okay, the button is the start button but IT STILL DOESN'T WORK ON MOST IRRITATING CUT SCENES. And besides, I didn't say all dialogue was unnessescary, I just said some dialogue is unnessescary. I still want to know what's going on, I just don't want it to drag on unnessesarily before letting me get back to the game-play.

How so? Stop stating your opinions as fact.

Ummm...what? Hold on, I have repeatedly stated that everything I say is my opinion. I'm not going to mince words by saying 'imo' after every sentence and the fact that you keep forgetting that everything I say is my opinion and that I know that is kind of, I dunno, stupid? Stop distorting the argument.

They (including myself) clicked on this thread because you lured them in by saying you were writing a review for a game that most Zelda fans truly enjoy. The whiny bi**hes who hunt for TP's flaws and ignore the flaws in older games to put those games on a pedestal are in the minority.

Hey, I gave the game better than average score. AND I told everyone everything I thought was right with the game and everything I thought was wrong with the game. That is all.

Usually, yes, but most of the time, they aren't whiny fanboys like many people on the online forums for this franchise, and that's why I will always trust the word of a professional critic who isn't a diehard fan but still enjoys the series over a "long time fan." Critics don't point out things they do or don't like, they point out things that are good or bad. There's a big difference there. They aren't nostalgia blinded dip****s or morons who just want something to complain about. They look at how well the gameplay and controls function, instead of wearing rose-tinted nostalgia goggles and picking out flaws no objective person would even notice or care about while comparing older games to newer ones.

About nostalgia goggles: I played and beat WW and TP before I ever laid my hands on OoT. So there.

For the rest: I'm TRYING to make a career out of reviewing and making games. It's kind of hard to make games of quality when you don't disect everything you play under a microscope and pick out the little things (something Nintendo didn't do IN MY HONEST OPINION) so I can be sure to avoid them. If I like something, I couldn't find any flaws that really mattered to myself then I really like it and give it a five star rating. If I find serious problems (THAT ARE SERIOUS IN MY HONEST OPINION (happy now?)) then I give it a lower rating depending on how many catagories that the flaws span.

So yes, professional critics are far more reliable on fans from a fanbase that hates the games more than the non-fans. How can you call yourself a fan if you complain about the franchise more than anyone else? There's a funny quote on TV Tropes, maybe you've heard of it, that says:

"You know I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anyone else."

Yes, I've heard the quote. I like to be objective in what I review, and I play a lot of games. I've played games that suck (3D sonic games) games that are okay (TP) and games that are, quite honestly, perfection incarnate (MM, WW and Fallout for starters).

I fail to see how this is true, but okay.

And I see that trying to explain it to you would be fruitless, though if you want me too, I'll try. (I'm running out of time)

But tedious sailing across endless blue wasn't boring?

Nope. Excellent soundtrack, great scenery and more mobs to shake you out of your bordom than you can shake a stick at. Gotta keep alert. And sailing barely took any time at all, really.

If people have negative opinions about TP, that's fine with me, but you better not then proceed to make up complete bull**** that isn't even true or doesn't matter and try to call it a bad game for having one or two flaws. Do you guys even know what a bad game is? A bad game is E.T or the CD-i games or Superman 64. And TP in no way fits that description.

Again, TP is not the worst game out there. It's just not the best either.

Nobody I have ever heard complain about TP has ever listed flaws that aren't much worse in previous titles and call things flaws that many people enjoy. The only flaws I see with TP are the following.

1.) Not enough exploration rewards that are actually useful. Rupees are the perfect example of this.

3.) Enemies don't do enough damage.

4.) Ganondorf and Zelda don't have enough screen time.

Well, if those flaws are in previous games, then that's at the fault of the series in general. That does not mean it's okay for the series to keep those flaws, espescially not in the game that was supposed to fix everything wrong with Zelda AND perfect what was RIGHT with Zelda. That is a problem I had with TP and SAID SO.

#1: Again, I said so.

#2: I said this too.

#3: They were shelved to give more screen time for Midna and her idiot plot.

im sorry but i have to agree with fulcon completely
in no way is he saying the game sucked, its just nintendo hyped it so much that when it wasnt flawless, majority of people (including myself) were dissapointed.
and you have to admit that TP had a significant amount of weak points

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Interface: Hit.
Content: Miss
Music: Hit
Graphics: Hit
Story: Miss

Here's my take on things:

Interface: Not a BAD interface, not perfect either.
Hit

Content: Huge overworld, but I think it lacked... content.
Miss

Music: ...
Miss

Graphics: Taking into consideration that this was a GC game, I'd still have to criticize the art style. Link's face scares me.
Tap (halfway between Hit and Miss)

Story: Why am I even rating this
Miss x 9001

So, in the end, my final score is:

-9002/5

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

What's boring content? Sailing for triforce pieces? Oh wait.

Either way, I can't really think of a section in TP that could compete with TWW's boring filler. I didn't like collecting things in TWW and I didn't like it in TP. However, TP barely had any aside from the 15 minute sections.

I'd much rather play the whole of WW than the whole of TP. That includes the Triforce hunts.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

It had a lot of meat where other Zeldas have nothing.

That wasn't meat. It was gravy. Which would technically be better-tasting, but gravy is nothing without the meat.

I believe that one's opinion on TP depends heavily on weather or not they watched the early trailers for the game.

I can't believe that some people actually HATED it.

Originally Posted by Double A

Content: Huge overworld, but I think it lacked... content.

You have no idea what content is, do you?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Didn't I correct my mistake?

Not until now.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And I find that you're horribly, horribly wrong.

Your loss.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Okay, I should've made this clearer: I wanted the spinner to be used on rails, not activating rediculously plain bridges. Happy now?

It's not a flaw to decry a game based on things that were never promised. Do people complain about Mario games for Mario not having a gun? No.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

No, it still holds water because that dungeon was barely any fun. Okay?

That's your opinion. And you're stating it as fact. If you arguing with somebody about facts, you can't use your opinion to give your argument strength. You have to use facts. And again, if you didn't enjoy it, that's your loss.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Yes, did you happen to find those magnetic surfaces I asked for?

No, because I really didn't care about magnetic surfaces.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

How about the roller coaster rails?

This is Zelda. Roller coaster rails do not exist. And if you're talking about spinner puzzles, there are 3 of them in the overworld alone.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And is sniping them really nessescary? What happened to your precious horse mounted combat.

Wow, you're pathetic. I can't vary my methods of killing enemies? Because I can clearly see you didn't pay attention to the game, enemies respawn every time you leave the area. You can snipe them from the bridge one day and fight them on horseback another day. You've actually just proved my point that you lack the creativity to find more than one way to fight enemies and use items.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

My high standards. And I'm not lowering them. I just telling you how I saw the game. It's your right to think whatever you like, but out-right insulting me (though those are fun to return) is not the way to convince me I'm wrong.

When you decry the game based on flaws that don't exist, your opinion is wrong. If you were to say "I hate ice cream because it's too hot" when you are constantly putting hot sauce on food, your opinion is moot and worthless. To say that you don't like something is just fine. To flat out say that something is good or bad requires objectivity and facts.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Yes you do. TP didn't have nearly enough side-quests to even be called an adventure game.

An adventure game is a game where you explore. And TP gave you that option. The genre of the game has absolutely nothing to do with side quests.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Bull-crap. Same control-scheme? Sure. Same controls and manner of play? NO. Does not work.

Lol wut? Do you realize what you just said? If it has the same control scheme, it has the same controls.

And of course it has a different manner of play. It's a transformation. And this is especially hypocritical because you sing the never-ending praises of MM's transformations, which play differently than normal Link.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Yeah, but Ocarina was fun.

So was TP. And better gameplay certainly adds to how fun a game is.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And didn't I already tell you that I gave TP points for it's refined controls (which does not make up all of game-play, sad to tell you)?

If you could read, you would see that I listed far more than just controls. Stop ignoring one point in my argument in order to only argue against another.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

In TP you get SEVEN sword techniques, not all of which are useful, you get no real additions to your combos. (Incidentally, I own the Gamecube version). And again, didn't I give TP points for it's refined controls? I did, didn't I. I just knocked it for it's lack of content.

I find uses for every single one of the sword techniques, and again, learn how to read. I also listed variations in sword combos, judging by what direction you move the control stick in while swinging your sword. Or, you can use the standard combo without moving the control stick.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Yeah, but there's only one area where it sees any actual use and that's directly above Kakariko. The enemies never get any tougher or smarter so it got boring very quickly.

Epona can go anywhere in the overworld. And you're still wrong because you also use horseback combat in the Faron and Lanayru provinces during the escort mission.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You know who else fails spectacularly? You. Yes you, Link92! You and your blasted fan-boyism is standing in the way of logic and intelligence.

I'm not in any way being a fanboy. I already acknowledged flaws in TP. I am merely defending TP from unwarranted criticism from people like you who feel fit to hunt for flaws in the game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

It doesn't really have an impact on my gameplay...so no. No it's not.

You did not just say this. Fighting enemies doesn't have an impact on gameplay? It IS gameplay.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And that needs to change. Badly.

It wasn't that big of an issue for most people.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And I love this game.

I never said it was bad. I merely said it's difficulty mainly comes from being a side scroller.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

I honestly never got that feeling.

Maybe because you ignore OoT's gameplay flaws in favor of exploiting TP's?

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And needs better enemies.

"Better" is a manner of perspective.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

You realize that the grand majority of those didn't explain important game-play aspects? No, I didn't think you did.

Every un-skippable cutscene had to do with gameplay.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

No, dummy. A loud noise would tell me that something really big is happening behind you, and you need to turn around right now. That way, if I've played the game before, I already know what's happening and I don't need to turn around.

This is your point of view, so it's not even worth arguing about. I highly prefer to actually see it happening. If the you hear the sound, that means it already happened.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And did you even take the test for Midna? If you didn't, you don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you're in denial.

If you're referring to the Mary Sue test, no, I haven't taken it, because it's horribly inaccurate and lists characters with any importance or interesting traits as Mary Sues by default.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The. Game. Was. Supposed. To. Be. About. Link. Because he's the main character and he's the one you're controlling.

Link is the savior of the game. He's still the main character. Midna is a person in need. She's only there to represent the effect kindness can have on even the meanest characters. Except Ganon. And Zant. And every major Zelda villain.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Your point? He didn't even know Link existed until he came before him, and then ignored him until the last second. That doesn't make it any better in my opinion.

If he didn't know Link existed, why would he be waiting at the Castle? He knew Midna wasn't alone.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

The Triforce wasn't even brought up until the last few minutes of the game, right before the boss fight. This made it feel like the Triforces sudden importance was forced. In a game that's supposed to be about the Triforce.

Wrong. The Triforce was mentioned many times since pretty much the beginning of the game.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

That line could've been referring to how Zelda was inhabiting Midna at the time. He probably wasn't talking about Link at all!

That makes no sense. He wasn't referring to Zelda's soul moving Midna around or affect her decisions. Learn how to interpret quotes. He was referring to Zelda and Link turning Midna into a better person. Midna herself even states this to be the exact case right before you go into the Twilight Realm to kill Zant.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Thus making me wonder why we went to get them at all. Seems kind of pointless if it just gets blasted aside like nobodies buisness.

To kill Zant. They were powerless against Ganon to show that the game belongs to the Triforce bearers and the fact that the goddesses are and always have been significantly more powerful than the power of the Interlopers.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

I. own. the. Gamecube. Version. How many times to I have to say this? Okay, the button is the start button but IT STILL DOESN'T WORK ON MOST IRRITATING CUT SCENES. And besides, I didn't say all dialogue was unnessescary, I just said some dialogue is unnessescary. I still want to know what's going on, I just don't want it to drag on unnessesarily before letting me get back to the game-play.

All of the story-related cut scenes are skippable.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Ummm...what? Hold on, I have repeatedly stated that everything I say is my opinion. I'm not going to mince words by saying 'imo' after every sentence and the fact that you keep forgetting that everything I say is my opinion and that I know that is kind of, I dunno, stupid? Stop distorting the argument.

Almost every one of your points has been about how the game failed from a gameplay standpoint. That's not an opinion, it's false.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Hey, I gave the game better than average score. AND I told everyone everything I thought was right with the game and everything I thought was wrong with the game. That is all.

And almost everything you said was wrong with the game was either biased or just simply wrong.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

About nostalgia goggles: I played and beat WW and TP before I ever laid my hands on OoT. So there.

I wasn't referring to you in my final paragraph. I was referring to the fact that the vast majority of those who make complaints about TP are biased and nostalgia-blinded, although you do fit the former label right now.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

For the rest: I'm TRYING to make a career out of reviewing and making games. It's kind of hard to make games of quality when you don't disect everything you play under a microscope and pick out the little things (something Nintendo didn't do IN MY HONEST OPINION) so I can be sure to avoid them. If I like something, I couldn't find any flaws that really mattered to myself then I really like it and give it a five star rating. If I find serious problems (THAT ARE SERIOUS IN MY HONEST OPINION (happy now?)) then I give it a lower rating depending on how many catagories that the flaws span.

All of the above can be summed up as "I don't like the game that much." But if you're going to broadcast your opinion on a forum of fans who are willing to defend this game, subjectivity has to be thrown out the window in favor of objectivity and facts.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Again, TP is not the worst game out there. It's just not the best either.

Because it perfected the gameplay formula introduced in OoT just as ALTTP perfected the gameplay formula introduced in LoZ, I'd have to disagree with you completely on this one.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Well, if those flaws are in previous games, then that's at the fault of the series in general. That does not mean it's okay for the series to keep those flaws, espescially not in the game that was supposed to fix everything wrong with Zelda AND perfect what was RIGHT with Zelda. That is a problem I had with TP and SAID SO.

And yet you, along with almost every other Zelda fan, completely ignores the flaws of older games while complaining endlessly about them in newer ones. This behavior is not okay at all. It only shows bias. If TP didn't fix those flaws, that in and of itself could be seen as a flaw, but if you're going to call it a flaw, you damn well better say the same about every previous Zelda with that flaw.