Fulcon's Review of Twilight Princess (there's good in there somewhere)

Link92, why are you arguing with an opinion?

Originally Posted by Talhoffer

Link92, why are you arguing with an opinion?

This

Originally Posted by MYK1217

Do you have to call it "cruel"? Can't you just say "I don't agree with your rating. I think it's a 4/5," and preferrably give reasoning for it? Why do you people keep trying to tell people they're wrong for being critical? Let people have their opinions. We're not telling you you're supposed to dislike this game. So stop telling us we're supposed to warship it.

Also good point, i am error (and i like your name, classic Zelda II reference). OOT's overworld wasn't much. But nonetheless, TP should have given you more enemies to fight and actually make them threatening. I want to have that thrill back.

It is cruel because, once again..Reviews aren't suppose to show bias or strong opinions. They tell the reader about the game and mark it on what it has, not on what it doesn't have. Scroll up on the other page and read one of the official reviews. That's a review, the OP's "review" can hardly be considered one, there isn't much depth or detail in any of his points. That, and it's too low to be a real review. This sounds like the score to Hey You Pikachu.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

It is cruel because, once again..Reviews aren't suppose to show bias or strong opinions. They tell the reader about the game and mark it on what it has, not on what it doesn't have. Scroll up on the other page and read one of the official reviews. That's a review, the OP's "review" can hardly be considered one, there isn't much depth or detail in any of his points. That, and it's too low to be a real review. This sounds like the score to Hey You Pikachu.

Yes, they are supposed to show bias and strong opinions...that's how people give 'scores'. The other guys reviews? I took them into consideration, and then declared them wrong imo.

I described the game and my thoughts on it. Which is what reviews do.

Or maybe Carnival Games...or Wii Music.

Fulcon: No offense but I'll take thirty 9+ scores and six( i think) game of the year awards over a few Zelda fans(who are some of the most biased people out there) any day.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Fulcon: No offense but I'll take thirty 9+ scores and six( i think) game of the year awards over a few Zelda fans(who are some of the most biased people out there) any day.

And I assumed that they were affected by something called 'Hype'. Did anyone really have the time nessescary to turn over every nook and cranny in the week they had to review it (maybe couple of weeks)? No. We've had three years. So I disected it.

I sure as HECK am not giving a good score to something I didn't think was good. I thought it was mearly 'okay'.

And honestly, do you need other peoples okay to tell you what to think? Do you HAVE to have a lot of people give the game 'game of the year awards' before you'll formulate your opinion?

That might not be the truth, but that's the vibe I'm getting from your post.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Or maybe Carnival Games...or Wii Music.

...what?

A 60 isn't an okay game. It's not even passing. Do you usually get 60s and say "Wow...I did okay!" TP is in no way a rental, anyone who is introduced to the series with TP actually has a better chance of falling for series than they would if they start now playing an older game, which is saaad, but TP is a very well made solid experience that actually does appeal to new comers as well as old times fans that aren't...you.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

And I assumed that they were affected by something called 'Hype'. Did anyone really have the time nessescary to turn over every nook and cranny in the week they had to review it (maybe couple of weeks)? No. We've had three years. So I disected it.

WTF are you talking about? Hype has the exact opposite effect on people. It makes people disappointed by the final product. THAT's what too much hype does. If the reviewers still gave the game near perfect scores after playing it, that means they were not in any way blinded by hype.

Originally Posted by Talhoffer

Link92, why are you arguing with an opinion?

I'm not, which you would know if you had actually read my posts in detail instead of skimming over them. I'm arguing with the hypocritical justification of the opinions.

Not only that, but I already pointed out like 5 times within my last 3 posts that I was not arguing against his opinion. I was arguing against the fact that he criticizes TP for things that so many previous games handled much more poorly, and he doesn't mention that at all.

This is the common behavior of Zelda fans. In order the bash a newer game, they overlook all of the flaws of the older games to make the newer game look like crap and pretend the older games didn't have those flaws at all.

Originally Posted by Link92

I'm not, which you would know if you had actually read my posts in detail instead of skimming over them. I'm arguing with the hypocritical justification of the opinions.

Not only that, but I already pointed out like 5 times within my last 3 posts that I was not arguing against his opinion. I was arguing against the fact that he criticizes TP for things that so many previous games handled much more poorly, and he doesn't mention that at all.

This is the common behavior of Zelda fans. In order the bash a newer game, they overlook all of the flaws of the older games to make the newer game look like crap and pretend the older games didn't have those flaws at all.

Define hypocrite. I honestly see no hypocrisy in this review.

It is hypocrisy because all the "problems" found in TP are found in other Zelda games, and sometimes the issues are even greater in past Zeldas. =/

...what?

Exactly.

Fulcon: See! IF you have to get that indepth to find problems with a game then you're just nitpicking. Also Link92 is right hype has the opposite effect. You seem to have fallen for the hype more than these reviewers did. And I myself believe it is a good game. My point is simply this. If not a single professional can find a serious flaw with this game then I don't really see how you can say it isn't a good game. You can say you didn't enjoy it but you can't actually declare that it is a bad game.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Fulcon: See! IF you have to get that indepth to find problems with a game then you're just nitpicking. Also Link92 is right hype has the opposite effect. You seem to have fallen for the hype more than these reviewers did. And I myself believe it is a good game. My point is simply this. If not a single professional can find a serious flaw with this game then I don't really see how you can say it isn't a good game. You can say you didn't enjoy it but you can't actually declare that it is a bad game.

I didn't have to go in depth, it seems to me that pro guys have to go in depth just to argue with me! (Seriously, who counts up the 120+ enemies? Not me!)

I'm TRYING to become a professional reviewer. And you didn't answer my question. Do you honestly need a professional to tell you how to feel?

Incidentally, the hype? In my experience, it takes a bit for hype to wear off. First, because your under the effects of hype, espescially if you don't have a whole lot of time to devote to a game, you would probably go 'wow this is great'...but then the hype wears off and you look at it objectively.

And I CAN declare it a bad game: It's my opinion.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

It is hypocrisy because all the "problems" found in TP are found in other Zelda games, and sometimes the issues are even greater in past Zeldas. =/

Hey, the reason I lambast TP for some of these problems is because, as 'the last Zelda as we know it', it was supposed to FIX ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS. It was said to have done so! And it didn't!

If continuing flaws that have been present in Zelda games isn't really a flaw, I don't know what is in your view.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

A 60 isn't an okay game. It's not even passing. Do you usually get 60s and say "Wow...I did okay!" TP is in no way a rental, anyone who is introduced to the series with TP actually has a better chance of falling for series than they would if they start now playing an older game, which is saaad, but TP is a very well made solid experience that actually does appeal to new comers as well as old times fans that aren't...you.

It's reason enough in this review, girly.

Fulcon: Okay so how is "Searching every single nook and cranny" not going in depth? I tend to agree with professionals. I have no bloody idea why but i do.

Yet Nintendo Power just came out this month with an article saying they rated TP as the fourth best Zelda game ever. It seems to me like this hype must be pretty long lasting. I think you were just disappointed because it didn't live up to your "hyped" expectations.

When was it stated that TP would fix these flaws(debatable)! Find me one quote that has the developers implying that and I will leave you alone! And you still don't answer why you can condemn TP for having flaws that other games had. If they were bad things then all games are flawed so stop flaming TP.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Fulcon: Okay so how is "Searching every single nook and cranny" not going in depth? I tend to agree with professionals. I have no bloody idea why but i do.

I was exagerrating on that part. The empty Hyrule Field was plenty obvious to me on my first play through.

Yet Nintendo Power just came out this month with an article saying they rated TP as the fourth best Zelda game ever. It seems to me like this hype must be pretty long lasting. I think you were just disappointed because it didn't live up to your "hyped" expectations.

They're entitled to their opinion. I just find it wrong.

When was it stated that TP would fix these flaws(debatable)! Find me one quote that has the developers implying that and I will leave you alone! And you still don't answer why you can condemn TP for having flaws that other games had. If they were bad things then all games are flawed so stop flaming TP.

It's not a flame if I list what I thought was good about it. It's an honest opinion.

And I'm looking for them...if someone wants to join in the search, please do.

Fulcon: Again bashing TP for flaws that other games had. How was the ocean in WW anymore interesting/less empty thant the field in TP?

I'm just pointing out that you're wrong about the hype blinding them to these supposed flaws in a game.

You still haven't answered the purpose of that part. Where did the devs say these supposed problems would be fixed! For the love of god answer me that otherwise you really had no reason to expect TP to be any different from any previous games.

It fixed most problems and simply didn't address others. For one, the game has some awesome main quest sub events. Between each level there was something really epic or fun going on. Thus eliminating the bland space between each dungeon. The game was really long, and had over 100 hours of content. Thus getting rid of the ole' this-game-is-too-short problem. Another thing is that in the Eldin Province there is a constant rate of enemies coming in that aggressively chase and attack you, to you point that...without Epona you would actually die. The graphics are the best in the series, even Miyamoto frankly stated so. I'm not talking style, the overall polish and detail puts it only behind RE4 in terms of GCN graphics. The game had a crapload of diversity, no other Zelda game has offered more types of landforms. There are so many different types of places it was like OoT and MM put together.

If you're planning on being a reviewer or any type of journalist you should try to back your review up a little better, don't focus too much on one thing, it'll ruin the overall helpfulness of the review. Talk about the good and the bad, without nitpicking in order to do so.

You people just don't get it. This is HIS opinion. Just because the game was well recieved by the formal game reviewers doesn't mean everybody has to have the same opinion. Do any of you know the concept of an opinion? I'm not going to say one thing because everyone else says it. I'm going to go with my own true feelings, no matter how many or how few people would agree with me, or who agrees with me. I'm as big of a Batman fan as I am a Zelda fan, and I didn't like Batman Begins, even though the majority of the fanbase embraced it. And, no, I'm not promoting having opinions that go against the majority opinion, because it's "cool." I'm saying that every person is entitled to any opinion, whether most people agree or not.

When people state their opinions, they're not trying to force others to agree with them. They're sharing their own thoughts and trying to take part in a discussion. People will agree. People will disagree. Those who disagree will simply give a counter arguement and move on.

All of this bickering about Twilight Princess is nonsense. It's rediculous. You people are confusing opinion with fact. For example, thought Ocarina of Time is widely considered the greatest video game ever made, that's still an opinion, not a fact. Heck, even the statement "Zelda: Ocarina of Time" is a good video game is an opinion, even though it's widely considered the greatedt game ever. The statement "Michael Jordan was a good basketball player" is an opinion.

Instead of crying when somene says something you don't agree with, why can't you just say "I disagree with you, and here is why..."? But no, instead you're all basically telling each other you're not allowed to have a certain opinion. There is no opinion that someone has no right in having, no mater how absurd it may be.

I'm trying to point out the flaws in his logic. Besides if he didn't want anyone to attack him/point out how he was wrong then he shouldn't have made this thread.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

It is hypocrisy because all the "problems" found in TP are found in other Zelda games, and sometimes the issues are even greater in past Zeldas. =/

Here's the things though, even following what you said, any flaw found in TP can be found in another Zelda, but not all of TP's flaws can be found in one other Zelda thus it is entirely possible for TP's flaws to culminated to a degree that makes it less forgivable than other Zeldas.

Also, I'm going to put this out there: I think TP has the worst story/characters of any Zelda. Midna was a mistake. Zant ended up being fail. Ganondorf was tacked on. This feeling comes to me in no other Zelda. The kids from Ordon were flat as Kansas, and those were our dynamic characters. This is quite honestly my biggest issue with the game. The world felt fake.
This is a flaw that only exists in TP.