Fulcon's Review of Twilight Princess (there's good in there somewhere)

I think he was talking about us haters.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

First off, why arn't you open to the fact that I percieve a great deal of TP to be flawed? If you are, I apologize but it doesn't seem that you are.

I'm not wearing nostalgia goggles. I'm using critic scalples.

Naw. TWW is 7 years old. It's in the nostalgia hole. But you've got to know this, every new addition to the Zelda series doesn't quite feel...like Zelda. Maybe that's not it for you, but when I originally beat MM, TWW and TP. It didn't feel like what a Zelda should be. When I beat TWW, I felt terrible. I didn't want to say the game was bad...I wanted to say it didn't feel like it was good enough for Zelda. Like it would be better off on it's own. And now I've heard people say the same about TP. But over time I see it in a different light. TP feels like Zelda. It had a feeling and atmosphere of it's own and anyone who enjoyed the game will tell you what that feeling felt like.

I still get goosebumps when playing TP...and that was a reaction only OoT was able to give. If a Zelda game can give me chills, then it is godly. I began to like TWW a lot more when I stopped basing it off of past Zelda games. I saw it for what it was. I treated it like it's own game and I appreciated it better that way. Same for MM, all very powerful games. I just feel like the new guy on the block deserves more respect...you know? It's not like all my life I've only defended TP. Back on Nsider there was a flame war every week about OoT, MM or TWW. I've almost always taken the defensive line. If that's wrong, then I'm truly sorry.

I honestly don't believe anyone is being overly defensive or even offensive. We pick our side and we go for it. Hyperboles are just...part of the debate. It's just becomes more and more necessary in order to set a firm opinion. I've stated that I can respect any opinion. I have plenty of people on my friends list who simply can't stand TP. I'm absolutely fine with that. It really doesn't matter at all.

I mean, a perfect debate in my eyes isn't who can flame the most and get the last say before the thread is locked. A perfect debate comes with a truce, a "Ah, I understand." moment. And I really like when that happens, I make a lot of friends that way. But hey, whatever. It's cool. I don't look down upon anyone for opinions, but I do feel sorry for the miscommunications.

He's right. TP hate doesn't necessarily come from nostalgia amplifying the past games.

Also:

If you look closely, people hated WW before it came out. But when they played it, their opinions changed.

But everyone liked TP before it came out. They were disappointed by their first playthrough.

Not really. TWW broke pre-order records. It's in the books for that, it obviously had a crap load of hype. Many people were indifferent. Celda fans were turned off by TP. Everyone else went completely insane and people foreign to the series were like "WTF is this!? Awesome." I was indifferent going into TWW. I didn't not like it because of the graphical presentation. The game was really short and had a ton of filler, and the sidequests were a huge step down from MM. I really didn't see that coming at all, and I was very displeased.

Obviously past Zeldas affect your perception of future titles. Seeing as how everyone who started with TP can't shut up about how amazing it was. Some of these said people go back to past Zelda games and straight up say, the others were no where near as good. Which...is completely fine. That's there opinion. I mean, even I'll admit I probably like OoA more than OoS because I played OoA first. It's a horrible thing but, it has a deep affect on people's opinion. That's why when I play Zelda NOW, I don't think of other Zelda games.

My best friend's favorite Zelda in Twilight Princess. She thinks MM is bad, and can't play/watch TWW for more than 2 minutes. She liked OoT though, but after playing TP...that's her favorite now.

Originally Posted by Double A

He's right. TP hate doesn't necessarily come from nostalgia amplifying the past games.

Also:

If you look closely, people hated WW before it came out. But when they played it, their opinions changed.

But everyone liked TP before it came out. They were disappointed by their first playthrough.

Originally Posted by Khostya Razruchityel

six game of the year awards, 30 9+ reviews, and about five million copies sold(i think that's what it is) don't count as appreciation?

Outside of this forum I have never met a SINGLE person that disliked TP. This further proves that only the fans hate the game.

...Fans don't hate the games of their fandom. xD Just board goers.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

...Did you include questions from the 'Fanfiction' part of the test? That includes characters who are, in fact, new to the series. Like Midna.

Yes, I did.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Midna was in the first Legend of Zelda?

You know damn well I was talking about the beginning of Twilight Princess. Stop being an idiot and taking my statements out of context. It's a sure sign of somebody who has no argument so they try to mock somebody else's.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Sure you did.

Your ignorance is painful. I learned about the gender difference between Marty Stus and Mary Sues long ago from TV Tropes. Stop being a smart ***.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Actually, he is. He's just to awesome for us to even care.

And so just because YOU don't like Midna, it matters that SHE may have some Mary Sue traits, but it doesn't matter if Link does? You're trying to classify a well-liked character as a Mary Sue based on your own dislike of that character. That = fail.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

Incidentally, when I ran him through, he only got a 43.

Then you must not have answered the questions about him being part of a prophecy or succeeding where just about everyone else fails. And being incredibly humble for a 17 year-old boy.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

My, you are rude.

I'm rude and you're over here misusing a fanfiction term because you personally dislike a character and then you're misinterpreting what I say on purpose to take my quotes out of context. Funny thing.

Originally Posted by Fulcon

TP was attempting perfection of everything brought to Zelda before. Since MM had a lot of focus on NPC's, you think that TP would bring that equal amount of focus on the NPC's because the NPC's are a part of the story.

Zant, Colin, Midna, Gor Coron, Darbus, Renado, Ralis, Ilia, Impaz, the Sages, Midna, and Zelda weren't important characters? Hmm.

Back for another round? =/ Geeez.

Originally Posted by Link92

Yes, I did.

Okay, fine.

You know damn well I was talking about the beginning of Twilight Princess. Stop being an idiot and taking my statements out of context. It's a sure sign of somebody who has no argument so they try to mock somebody else's.

But if you were using that as an excuse to skip a section of the test, that would be breaking the rules. But you didn't, so it's moot.

Your ignorance is painful. I learned about the gender difference between Marty Stus and Mary Sues long ago from TV Tropes. Stop being a smart ***.

I will as soon as you start being logical.

And so just because YOU don't like Midna, it matters that SHE may have some Mary Sue traits, but it doesn't matter if Link does? You're trying to classify a well-liked character as a Mary Sue based on your own dislike of that character. That = fail.

That and her having to many points for my liking.

Then you must not have answered the questions about him being part of a prophecy or succeeding where just about everyone else fails. And being incredibly humble for a 17 year-old boy.

No, I answered that.

I'm rude and you're over here misusing a fanfiction term because you personally dislike a character and then you're misinterpreting what I say on purpose to take my quotes out of context. Funny thing.

Have you ever heard of Wesly from Star Trek? He's known as a 'Canon Stu'. A guy in Canon who is a Stu. Stu is not a fanfiction term. I may have been that way once, but not for a long time.

Zant, Colin, Midna, Gor Coron, Darbus, Renado, Ralis, Ilia, Impaz, the Sages, Midna, and Zelda weren't important characters? Hmm.

Zant barely talks to him. Colin is minor, Midna doesn't count because she's supposed to be the sidekick. Cor Coron is a minor character. Darbus is minor. Renado is minor. Ralis is minor. Ilia is an annoying love interest. Impaz is a minor character. The Sages are minor characters. Zelda talks to him...barely.