More depth than ever before.

One of the things that I've been worried about was 1:1 controls...after watching a bit of Wii Sports Resort I am completely convinced that Zelda should use 1:1 controls because it will add more depth than ever before.

It will no longer be pump this button to win or tap this baddie to win. It'll have some serious complexity that is unmatched. They can now finally incorporate real weak points on every baddie while fighting. Not only that but Link can also have weak points, maybe even a twist of difficulty where if you are hit in a vital place you'll instantly die...I gotta admit, I'm famous for somehow triggering every instant death in every game. >_>

But it's something that should be considered. I've said it before, I don't think it's fair for Link to be able to kill an enemy with an instant "KO" move when no enemy can do that to Link.

Slightly off topic:



Lol...am I the only one who thinks the poses are similar?

I really, really hope it's the HoT too!
I too think that we'll get some really interesting sword mechanics. The cool thing is that WMP can actually detect how fast you swing the remote, which could actually deal different amounts of damage. I believe Red Steel 2 uses this feature.

I'd also like to see real "sword Fighting" up until now it was Link hits... Bulbin hits... Link hits... Octorok hits... I'd like to actually be able to parry and have a realistic sword exchange.

Well if you consider combat as game depth I guess you are right. However, I'm not playing Zelda for the battles. The real depth is coming from the mysteries, the story and the feeling you get when entering a new temple.

Originally Posted by LupusX

Well if you consider combat as game depth I guess you are right. However, I'm not playing Zelda for the battles. The real depth is coming from the mysteries, the story and the feeling you get when entering a new temple.

Yeah well to me the story and the dungeons have always been amazing, but the game's action difficulty needs help. So...combat is kind of important since many people whine about it being too easy. Adding depth to a battle but erase that.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

One of the things that I've been worried about was 1:1 controls...after watching a bit of Wii Sports Resort I am completely convinced that Zelda should use 1:1 controls because it will add more depth than ever before.

Lack of accessibility.

Wii S-Resort swordfighting only succeeded as a casualz game because of its relatively simple controls compared to Zelda.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

It will no longer be pump this button to win or tap this baddie to win. It'll have some serious complexity that is unmatched. They can now finally incorporate real weak points on every baddie while fighting. Not only that but Link can also have weak points, maybe even a twist of difficulty where if you are hit in a vital place you'll instantly die...I gotta admit, I'm famous for somehow triggering every instant death in every game. >_>

Given that the Wii has no way of solidly implementing camera control (apart from "center the camera with the Z button"), Nintendo will most likely bypass this problem by keeping the camera relatively far from Link to prevent any camera-related problems.

Now if we use this system of "weak points", it will be unnecesarily hard to focus your precise slashing on a little weak point, which will be made even smaller because of the zoomed-out camera.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Lol...am I the only one who thinks the poses are similar?

Yes.

The Link in the Majora's Mask Orchestrations poster looks almost overconfident in a sort of OMG KAWAII sort of way, like he's showing off...

The Link in the Z-Wii poster looks more serious.

Weak spot as in face, neck, torso. Those are big regions. I don't think the camera will be too zoomed out. Probably similar to TP's drawout.

And when I originally noticed the similar poses I thought MM Link and New Link were smirking the same way, though it's not really the case, now that I look again.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Weak spot as in face, neck, torso. Those are big regions. I don't think the camera will be too zoomed out. Probably similar to TP's drawout.

If the enemy is taller than Link, do you have to swing your arms above your head?

If the enemy is armoured (and really, how many of the tougher enemies won't be armoured one way or another), do you have to try to attack the neck? Considering that it's a pretty small spot for a precise motion-sensor...

EDIT: If Link was facing towards the TV screen (outwards), would your swings be mirrored?

TP's zoom-out was enough to make enemies' heads and necks too small to hit with a precise motion-sensor. In a Wii Zelda, a farther camera is safer than a closer camera.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

And when I originally noticed the similar poses I thought MM Link and New Link were smirking the same way, though it's not really the case, now that I look again.

Yup.

Maybe they could turn Links stab attack into a instant kill/finishing move? I bet it would be much slower/harder to hit with if you're using 1:1 motion tracking than the regular sword swipes.

They've already found a way, I guess, though HOPEFULLY that doesn't consist of First Person.

I suppose it will be similar to Wii Sports Resort, according to Miyamoto.

Originally Posted by Cafe Mocha

They've already found a way, I guess, though HOPEFULLY that doesn't consist of First Person.

I suppose it will be similar to Wii Sports Resort, according to Miyamoto.

Eh, I don't want Link to be translucent. If not first person I think an over the shoulder approach would be better.

Originally Posted by Catch

Eh, I don't want Link to be translucent... not first person I think... would be better.

Fix'd.

Originally Posted by Double A

Fix'd.

I wasn't suggesting that I wanted first person if that's what you thought...
to be honest I don't really know what just happened.

I have the magazine in my hands, now. There's a two-page interview with Miyamoto that's a bit interesting.

On LoZ Wii:


Quote:
NP: We've heard from a lot of people who are under the impression that the next console Zelda game is going to be something radically different from what we've seen in the past. Is that the case?

Miyamoto: No, I don't think it's going to be that radically different. Accessible gameplay. Something that we're going to look at focusing within that 3-D realm is really highlighting the things that are important within the Zelda franchise--the actions that Link can take. I think it's easy to maybe overthink it because you're in that 3-D realm of all the different things you should be doing or try to be doing, and really what's important to understand is what's available to you, and just focus down on what's best suited for that rather than just trying to implement a whole bunch of different things.


This gives a bit more context to the comment singled-out in this thread, and as I said before, it's more or less the same response he gave when Matt Casmassina asked him if the series is going to be in the first-person perspective. That is, it won't be that radically different.

Of more importance, though, is everything else that he said. It sounds as if they're going to discipline and distill the action, which is very interesting. I consider this to be the most telling thing we've learned about LoZ Wii so far.

More:


Quote:
NP: The artwork that you showed fort he upcoming Wii Zelda title seemed a lot like the art for Twilight Princess. Are you going to carry over Twilight Princess' art style?

Miyamoto: I don't think it's going to change dramatically. We are doing it on the Wii [console]. That being said, we can look at Twilight Princess--it was built to run on both GameCube and Wii, and this one will be running only on Wii, so I think there will be differences inherent to the fact that it's only on this platform.


Yes! I love the art-style in Twilight Princess and would like to see it developed.


Quote:
NP: And, of course, everyone wants to know exactly who that female character is in the illustration.

Miyamoto: Yeah, that's probably the most important part of that artwork. I really can't talk too much about [it]; one thing that's important to note in that artwork, though, is that Link is carrying a shield, but that's all he's carrying.



Quote:
NP: Now, before you showed the image, you talked about wanting everybody to have unique, personal memories of their adventures in Hyrule. Is that something you're actually trying to implement in the game--a personalized Zelda experience for every player?

Miyamoto: Every person's own individual experiences with the game should beunique and [be] their own sort of "My Zelda" experience, and I think that's superimportant, and we have to look at that when we're creating dungeons and how we can make that come true. So spending a lot of time concentrating our efforts in that area. But it's not going to become individual: "Hi, I'm this Zelda!" or "I'm this Zelda!" or "I'm this Link!" or whatever. The experience will be unique but within this world that we've defined.


More to come on NSMB Wii. Some interesting tidbits on it, too.

New NP interview, found it on Neogaf forums.

Eeh, I didn't really get that much from it. Just no "major changes" and maybe more validation about the girl being the master sword. He mentioned the sword when asked about the girl.

Also a player's own experience in Hyrule. Very vague -_-

Originally Posted by Catch

I wasn't suggesting that I wanted first person if that's what you thought...
to be honest I don't really know what just happened.

I don't want camera-over-the-shoulder either.

If they radically change the combat then the rest of the gameplay will be majorly affected, because Zelda isn't a combat-centric series.

Originally Posted by Double A

I don't want camera-over-the-shoulder either.

If they radically change the combat then the rest of the gameplay will be majorly affected, because Zelda isn't a combat-centric series.

Well I would only want over the shoulder if we have somthing resembling 1:1
Of course if there's another alternative that would work better i'm all for it.

That's pretty much my philosophy with this new game, if it works do it.

Originally Posted by Catch

Well I would only want over the shoulder if we have somthing resembling 1:1
Of course if there's another alternative that would work better i'm all for it.

That's pretty much my philosophy with this new game, if it works do it.

I've suggested this in the past, and I think it's worth mentioning again. Something like an over-the-shoulder view could be activated only when holding Z (as in, when targeting an enemy it automatically "swoops" into that view). The game already does this when using the bow, boomerang, chain-and-ball, etc, so adding this to the swordplay wouldn't be necessarily a radical change.

It does have its flaws, though, as DoubleA has pointed out in other threads. They mainly consist of the idea that when the camera is over-the-shoulder, Link might be less maneuverable. In combat, this could be a problem.

A potential fix that I've suggested is to make the zoom-in context sensitive. The camera would be intelligent enough to adjust the field of view in combat, enough so that most close-range enemies are viewable.

Just as a note to anyone who thinks adding 1:1 is easy: it's not. It's one thing in Wii Sports Resort, where the character moves automatically, enemies only attack one at a time, and the character is transparent. It's not simply a matter of taking the engine we've seen since Ocarina of Time and adding 1:1 swordplay. Everything must be thought through, and at the very least, the notion of Z-targeting must change.

It's too bad they can't add any depth multi-player wise. Seeing the new developments in sword action makes disappointing that you will never be able to 1 on 1 with a friend. That would be 'radically different', and probably upset a lot of people.

It does have its flaws, though, as DoubleA has pointed out in other threads. They mainly consist of the idea that when the camera is over-the-shoulder, Link might be less maneuverable. In combat, this could be a problem.

I have to agree with this. I disliked the tunnel-vision effect of many over-the-shoulder games, like Gears of War and others. I felt less like I was the character running around in the game and more like I was a kid sitting on a couch staring at a silver screen. Hopefully Zelda maintains its 3rd person strategy.

Originally Posted by FUN00BS

IF ZELDA WENT MULTIPLAYER ID CASTRATE MY NEIGHBOR AND THEN IM TAKE A **** OFF THE NEAREST BRIDGE ON TO A CAR...IN PROTEST.

Wow, I feel sorry for your neighbour and his car...

Yes, I think the pictures definitely share similarities.

Who knows... maybe... just maybe... this fairy girl shares some sort of connection to Navi? I wouldn't mind seeing this explored.

Otherwise I'd just like to say I want to see a more "serious-faced" Link. I thought he was too happy and kind looking in TP and needs to look more like he does in the artwork.