I

IGN is an awful, awful site, so I wouldn't exactly take those with any great weight.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

IGN is an awful, awful site, so I wouldn't exactly take those with any great weight.

Lol. xD Have you actually been to their forums? They aren't too bad. But they are all unanimously obsessed with Majora's Mask. I started hating the Nintendo Nsider boards as soon as TP came out. They all started acting like pansies about how they were disappointed. So that's done, IGN gets whiny every know and then, but they were bad with TWW too. Now they're suddenly starting to like it a bit more.

I haven't been to the forums, but the main site puts me off entirely.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I haven't been to the forums, but the main site puts me off entirely.

...xD They aren't the same. Just because the site is run by idiots doesn't mean the people that visit it are.

True, true, but they must at least like the main site slightly to stay there.

You know what Ganon the King, I think it's a great idea to go play FF or some other J-rpg instead of Zelda as you wrote in the opening post, you really should. There will be plenty of side-questing in FF XIII when it's released.

And btw the heart pieces, gold bugs and poes may not be sidequest but they serve the purpose of making the exploration of the world of Hyrule more fun. And exploration of an open world is kinda the original concept of the whole series, while other series such as FF focus more on "exploring" a epic story and all the characters involved in it.

I'm honestly expecting Twilight Princess 2, my hopes aren't that high for it honestly. I really wanted something different like a new visual style and something to shake up the norm like Majora's Mask, I just wanted something that would never be anything like Twilight Princess again. TP was just too realistic and felt very wonky and incomplete, I always have to push myself to finish it because of how uninteresting it is.

It's probably the first Zelda I've ever stopped halfway through a dungeon too. I NEVER do that, EVER. TP simply bores me to death.

The fact that Miyamoto said twice this game is completely different [from Twilight Princess] means nothing in the faces of a-many TP-haters. :|

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

First you accuse me of being ignorant on the grounds that I think I know everything that Nintendo will do. This is completely and obviously incorrect as I stated originally in my original post that those were my fears for the new Zelda, not that I knew that was what Nintendo wasn't going to do.

I can find your post that said, "Nintendo will continue this trend..." and goes on. But, that's why I said it. You came off as saying you know exactly what is going to happen.


On Topic : I don't care how Nintendo makes the next Zelda game, because I know that they'll do a good job no matter what. Even if they still use the age-old Zelda Formula, I think the game can still be fun, and inventive in other ways.

Lol, TP's hate will end pretty soon...which may be good or bad. I remember when MM originally came out, soooo much hate. Then TWW came out, and took all the hate, suddenly MM was idolized. Then TP came out, took the hate, suddenly TWW was idolized...>_> You see the trend?

ROFL! I said the same thing a few months back. Its a seriously annoying trend with the 3D games.


Yeah all of this whining is unwarrented and unseemly. I will never understand the complaining that is associated with newly announced games that no one really knows anything about.

Due to not posting in months, or maybe for some other reason, my account was deleted, so I made a new one just to post to this thread. I completely understand your fears, but I don't think you should be so pessimistic, really.
You said that TP didn't fix any of zelda's issues. As far as I know, there never were any issues before it. TP feels unfinished, which it most likely is, because nintendo didn't have enough time to finish it because the wii was about the be released. Midna can also be annoying at times, especially since the whole story is about Link doing stuff for her, and Ganondorf is a total noob who doesn't even know what the master sword is. Not to mention that we were all seen and played the game many times already before it was even released, in the form of OoT.
Seeing that TP is this bad, why should you not be pessimistic? Well, first of all, because TP is not bad. The issues I listed above do not affect it's great gameplay. It's one of the best games ever.
Second, nintendo is not that stupid they would make another TP, they really aren't. Remember what miyamoto said about TP a couple of years ago? He said it's going to be "the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form." You see, TP had all those problems because nintendo wan't able to come up with new original ideas, because they were still using the Oot engine. They have realized that it's time to abandon the good old mario 64 engine and make a new one, one that could make the difference between TP and zelda wii almost as big as the difference between Alttp and oot.
THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE ANOTHER TWILIGHT PRINCESS.
You complain about Midna, but really, name one zelda game that isn't TP, that has a midna-type sidekick character.
That's right, TP is the only one. Just like MM is the only one with tht 3-days system and WW is the only one with sailing.
Don't judge the game by concept art because it has a character that is not link/zelda/ganon.
I think that was all.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

...Lol, I think you're completely wrong. I like your attitude though, keep hoping the next Zelda will suck so that when you get it you'll be the happiest fan alive. (Well, besides me...Cuz I'm always crazy for a new Zelda)

This, except I'm not a fangirl

Such pessimism! I think i'm allergic! :p

PS.what does IMO mean?

Oh, Double A, is there a boy version of you too, just like there should be a "female Link" option? ;p

And either way, I'll probably be crazy over the next Zelda no matter what it turns into.

EDIT: Ughh...IGN boards...there are too many silly people there. I post a little, but have since lost interest until something new comes up.

EDIT EDIT: IMO means "in my opinion".

I liked TP's overworld a lot! It was fun to explore, but I DO agree there should have been more people in it, even if just a few walking cows or something. But I still loved how vast it felt, and the scenery was pretty nice. I mean, the whole world was attacked by freaky twilight monsters, why would they be out in the open fields. If there were people out everywhere, the awesome Telma/Ilia wagon thing wouldn't have meant anything, and I thought that was FUN! So intense! The thing I hated most about the entire game though is that there was NO ONE in Kakariko village, and it was all dead and barren...

Seriously, I thought TP was a great game. It brought some change, but I'm sure they will keep things unique to that game. I don't see them making a new Midna anytime soon, but who knows? I just know whatever happens, I will be sure to love it and spend every moment of my life glued to the TV til I find out everything there is to know, its my typical new-Zelda reaction

What I missed in TP was a place to hang around. The Castle Town wasn't enough, and especially not as you can't walk around without thousands of loadings. And I waisted a lot of money on the old man at the western gate. I thought that if I pay him enough money, he will open the way to the mystic room behind him. Nothing happened.

So I want an extremely huge town with tons of sidequests, secret passages (and sewer system), nice gardens, a river floating through the town making it contain a lot of nice bridges and hundereds of alleys to explore.
Wouldn't that kill the developers?

Even though that won't happen, I fully trust the developers to make a really good game, because they have managed to satisfy our Zelda-needs this far. Well, they are kind of responsible for causing this addiction in the first place. Still they will do a good job.

I agree with ganon the king somewhat more than others here in this thread. Many elements from majora's mask created a new peak for how zelda can be. If nintendo/shigeru miyamoto is learning from their mistakes then why is it that ever since MM we've been seeing less sidequests. I agree with how lazy ganon the king thinks nintendo is becoming. It just doesn't make sense how MM (a masterpiece) could have been produced in a matter of 2 years after OoT while Tp practically doubled that time. Okay fine, 9 temples but hyrule castle as a temple? Come on. If they consider it a temple they could have at least added more to it than Oot's Ganon Tower. Plus the twilight temple seemed short as well. MM just delivered a better overall experience. Even though Tp is roughly two times longer than MM, it just feels like the same old thing. This is what some old time zelda fans will agree on. For those who have played Tp 1st or 2nd will most likely find it fresh and exciting. Zelda fans are getting harder and harder to please as is with all other video gamers. Tp is probably better than Oot but since we've already beaten so many temples and have done so many things in zelda games, we expect more from the series. That's why nintendo would much rather please the non-gamers or new gamers. I'm not saying that the next zelda will be a walk in the park but expect something easy. Actually, don't expect anything at all. Expect to see miyamoto crapping on link in the opening intro. This might be the only way that we will actally be able to apreciate another zelda game. Honestly, I don't think the next zelda for wii will be better than Tp. Although a few things that miyamoto has stated can possibly lead to a great game. Here's my thinking:

-Miyamoto stated that the game will appeal to hardcore and casual gamers (this could mean that first 4 dungeons can be relatively easy-normal while the last 3-6 dungeons can be difficult and challenging. Don't forget, unlike windwaker it was Tp's bosses and enemies that were very easy; not the puzzles. This means that the difficulty of the puzzles/dungeons in zelda has not decreased.)

-Just because the zelda wii game might cator more to casual gamers, it still leaves room for sidequests and other extra things to do besides collecting heart pieces. Actually, the next zelda has a good chance that it can be very much like WW. Good amount of exploring (sidequests), relatively easier and having a bit more change of pace from previous zelda games while still keeping ganon in the game.

As you see, I have mixed ideas and emotions on how this game will play out. This isn't because I'm trying to be fair. I'm speculating how exactly the game will play out based on statements and previous trends in the zelda titles. This game can really be anything. I am 100% certain that it will be much better than zelda 2 while I don't expect it to live up to zelda's n64 days. Zelda is not progressively getting worse. It's had up's and downs. So when people get together in forums to hypothesise on how good the game will be, opinions can vary greatly. It's wierd how when I received Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask at an early age I didn't expect anything of them although with Tp I was literally counting down the days for it to release. If I had played Tp first I can be at least 98% sure that I would have enjoyed it much more. Along with finding it more difficult. Playing OoT recently gave me no sense of challenge anymore because I am already familiar to the same old zelda puzzles. Some of Tp's temples (going out on a limb here...) are harder than Oot's temples (excluding water and forest). As a greater realization (going out on an even bigger limb...) Tp's temples are overall harder than Oot's. It took a while to realize this because when playing Tp for my first time, I already had grown attatched to zelda's puzzles. What I'm trying to get to is that if the new zelda game is just DIFFERENT from past zelda titles, there will be a far greater chance of finding difficulty in the game because hardcore and casual gamers alike will have to experience something totally new in the zelda series. Now I'm not talking about future zelda, whole new system etc... I just mean to say if that nintendo thinks up of some new concepts for dungeons and items (which Miyamoto actually agrees upon doing) then it will feel like hardcore gamers have just stumbled upon zelda all over again. I believe that this is Miyamoto's ultimate goal which actually pleases everyone.

Comments? (Sorry I kinda switched my whole approach on the game throughout my post)

Originally Posted by Ben

I can find your post that said, "Nintendo will continue this trend..." and goes on. But, that's why I said it. You came off as saying you know exactly what is going to happen.


On Topic : I don't care how Nintendo makes the next Zelda game, because I know that they'll do a good job no matter what. Even if they still use the age-old Zelda Formula, I think the game can still be fun, and inventive in other ways.

I know it can be fun even with the old Zelda formula and it can very well be inventive in other ways. The thing is, TP seems to be the best Zelda game ever for the first 2/3 of the game until you realise the game lacks character side-quests completely, lacks challenging mini-games, a next-gen overworld and the last three dungeons are crafted poorly. In fact, the enemy difficulty doesn't even get harder. You would expect them to make it easier at the beginning of the game since they are trying to please the casuals that are buying TP with their new Wiis, but AT LEAST up the difficulty for the last portion of the game... I found things like not being able to get out of Lake Hylia without being shot out of a canon also, just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Florina Belmont

ROFL! I said the same thing a few months back. Its a seriously annoying trend with the 3D games.


Yeah all of this whining is unwarrented and unseemly. I will never understand the complaining that is associated with newly announced games that no one really knows anything about.

I loved TWW when it first came out, but I still felt very nostalgic towards OoT/MM.

Originally Posted by xJonahx

Due to not posting in months, or maybe for some other reason, my account was deleted, so I made a new one just to post to this thread. I completely understand your fears, but I don't think you should be so pessimistic, really.
You said that TP didn't fix any of zelda's issues. As far as I know, there never were any issues before it. TP feels unfinished, which it most likely is, because nintendo didn't have enough time to finish it because the wii was about the be released. Midna can also be annoying at times, especially since the whole story is about Link doing stuff for her, and Ganondorf is a total noob who doesn't even know what the master sword is. Not to mention that we were all seen and played the game many times already before it was even released, in the form of OoT.
Seeing that TP is this bad, why should you not be pessimistic? Well, first of all, because TP is not bad. The issues I listed above do not affect it's great gameplay. It's one of the best games ever.
Second, nintendo is not that stupid they would make another TP, they really aren't. Remember what miyamoto said about TP a couple of years ago? He said it's going to be "the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form." You see, TP had all those problems because nintendo wan't able to come up with new original ideas, because they were still using the Oot engine. They have realized that it's time to abandon the good old mario 64 engine and make a new one, one that could make the difference between TP and zelda wii almost as big as the difference between Alttp and oot.
THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE ANOTHER TWILIGHT PRINCESS.
You complain about Midna, but really, name one zelda game that isn't TP, that has a midna-type sidekick character.
That's right, TP is the only one. Just like MM is the only one with tht 3-days system and WW is the only one with sailing.
Don't judge the game by concept art because it has a character that is not link/zelda/ganon.
I think that was all.

Originally Posted by DakonLink

Such pessimism! I think i'm allergic! :p

PS.what does IMO mean?

It means "in my opinion."

Originally Posted by eiyuu_004

I liked TP's overworld a lot! It was fun to explore, but I DO agree there should have been more people in it, even if just a few walking cows or something. But I still loved how vast it felt, and the scenery was pretty nice. I mean, the whole world was attacked by freaky twilight monsters, why would they be out in the open fields. If there were people out everywhere, the awesome Telma/Ilia wagon thing wouldn't have meant anything, and I thought that was FUN! So intense! The thing I hated most about the entire game though is that there was NO ONE in Kakariko village, and it was all dead and barren...

Seriously, I thought TP was a great game. It brought some change, but I'm sure they will keep things unique to that game. I don't see them making a new Midna anytime soon, but who knows? I just know whatever happens, I will be sure to love it and spend every moment of my life glued to the TV til I find out everything there is to know, its my typical new-Zelda reaction

That was another problem with TP, the scenery could have been a lot better. Death Mountain could have been a lot more tremendous... yet it failed. Actually, there was no reason to even go back to Death Mountain.... sumo wrestling... nothing.

IMO I see "whole world being attacked by Twilight beasts" as an excuse not to have a good over world, resulting in one that is barren, though not as barren as OoT's. I hated the fact that these beasts come out of the sky all over the map and the sad thing is they aren't any harder at the end compared to what they are at the start. Massive FAIL. Also, there was no variety in the shadow beasts. They were all the same basically. Would have been cool if they progressively got harder and you got to fight newer kinds. Towards the end of the game they should have been MASSIVE like actual bosses and you need to use new spells/magic that Midna learns throughout the game to defeat them. Where was that? Then there could have been this awesome mini-boss in Palace of Twilight, or EVEN BETTER, THREE awesome Shadow-being bosses. Nintendo got lazy. They can easily employ more people, but they don't. Lazy. Slack.

The Illia/Telma wagon thing was very good, but its a take off from the Cremia's wagon in MM. And, why couldn't it have meant anything? They could have easily just made it that Link goes with them and then half way to Kakariko they are targeted by monsters. Not that it was their intention to have Link help them be escorted because of the beasts in the first place.


Typical new Zelda reaction huh? Looking for every little detail, eyes glued to the TV. Quite impossible in TP's case because all we could find out was hidden grotos and talk to people that said nothing interesting. There was nothing to discover in TP. I remember how much detail the graveyard in OoT had, you could read what all the tombstones said. What about TP? You couldn't read one tombstone. TP lacked that amount of detail. For Zelda to go a step forward, it needs 10x more detail than previous Zeldas. There should be little bits of information here and there, that pieced together, you can learn new stories and lore of the world of Hyrule. Added to this there should be lots of character side-quests that involve you helping people that also helps form the overall picture and storyline of the world you are exploring and living in.

Originally Posted by LupusX

What I missed in TP was a place to hang around. The Castle Town wasn't enough, and especially not as you can't walk around without thousands of loadings. And I waisted a lot of money on the old man at the western gate. I thought that if I pay him enough money, he will open the way to the mystic room behind him. Nothing happened.

So I want an extremely huge town with tons of sidequests, secret passages (and sewer system), nice gardens, a river floating through the town making it contain a lot of nice bridges and hundereds of alleys to explore.
Wouldn't that kill the developers?

Even though that won't happen, I fully trust the developers to make a really good game, because they have managed to satisfy our Zelda-needs this far. Well, they are kind of responsible for causing this addiction in the first place. Still they will do a good job.

Yes, there was no place to hang around in TP. No hub to go to and enjoy. CT could have been an easy contender for this. Could have been an inn involving a side-quest, a pub involving multiple side-quests that are lnked with things outside of CT, other bits and details in certain shops/houses. All sorts of things, literally.

I think you may have too much trust in Nintendo. My trust has been jeopardized with TP. For the simple reason that MM was in a lot of ways superior and it was only a N64 game! Now that they are going even more casual and Miyamoto is only interested in making the gameplay better, that to me, says a lot about character side-quests and all those little details that I, and many other people, just LOVE. Considering the outcome that TWW and TP were, its not too likely that this new Zelda is going to satisfy me in this kind of respect. Maybe it will have awesomely, refreshing storyline, music, gameplay, environments but will lack on the other side of things. =(

Originally Posted by thezeldaguy

I agree with ganon the king somewhat more than others here in this thread. Many elements from majora's mask created a new peak for how zelda can be. If nintendo/shigeru miyamoto is learning from their mistakes then why is it that ever since MM we've been seeing less sidequests. I agree with how lazy ganon the king thinks nintendo is becoming. It just doesn't make sense how MM (a masterpiece) could have been produced in a matter of 2 years after OoT while Tp practically doubled that time. Okay fine, 9 temples but hyrule castle as a temple? Come on. If they consider it a temple they could have at least added more to it than Oot's Ganon Tower. Plus the twilight temple seemed short as well. MM just delivered a better overall experience. Even though Tp is roughly two times longer than MM, it just feels like the same old thing. This is what some old time zelda fans will agree on. For those who have played Tp 1st or 2nd will most likely find it fresh and exciting. Zelda fans are getting harder and harder to please as is with all other video gamers. Tp is probably better than Oot but since we've already beaten so many temples and have done so many things in zelda games, we expect more from the series. That's why nintendo would much rather please the non-gamers or new gamers. I'm not saying that the next zelda will be a walk in the park but expect something easy. Actually, don't expect anything at all. Expect to see miyamoto crapping on link in the opening intro. This might be the only way that we will actally be able to apreciate another zelda game. Honestly, I don't think the next zelda for wii will be better than Tp. Although a few things that miyamoto has stated can possibly lead to a great game. Here's my thinking:

-Miyamoto stated that the game will appeal to hardcore and casual gamers (this could mean that first 4 dungeons can be relatively easy-normal while the last 3-6 dungeons can be difficult and challenging. Don't forget, unlike windwaker it was Tp's bosses and enemies that were very easy; not the puzzles. This means that the difficulty of the puzzles/dungeons in zelda has not decreased.)

-Just because the zelda wii game might cator more to casual gamers, it still leaves room for sidequests and other extra things to do besides collecting heart pieces. Actually, the next zelda has a good chance that it can be very much like WW. Good amount of exploring (sidequests), relatively easier and having a bit more change of pace from previous zelda games while still keeping ganon in the game.

As you see, I have mixed ideas and emotions on how this game will play out. This isn't because I'm trying to be fair. I'm speculating how exactly the game will play out based on statements and previous trends in the zelda titles. This game can really be anything. I am 100% certain that it will be much better than zelda 2 while I don't expect it to live up to zelda's n64 days. Zelda is not progressively getting worse. It's had up's and downs. So when people get together in forums to hypothesise on how good the game will be, opinions can vary greatly. It's wierd how when I received Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask at an early age I didn't expect anything of them although with Tp I was literally counting down the days for it to release. If I had played Tp first I can be at least 98% sure that I would have enjoyed it much more. Along with finding it more difficult. Playing OoT recently gave me no sense of challenge anymore because I am already familiar to the same old zelda puzzles. Some of Tp's temples (going out on a limb here...) are harder than Oot's temples (excluding water and forest). As a greater realization (going out on an even bigger limb...) Tp's temples are overall harder than Oot's. It took a while to realize this because when playing Tp for my first time, I already had grown attatched to zelda's puzzles. What I'm trying to get to is that if the new zelda game is just DIFFERENT from past zelda titles, there will be a far greater chance of finding difficulty in the game because hardcore and casual gamers alike will have to experience something totally new in the zelda series. Now I'm not talking about future zelda, whole new system etc... I just mean to say if that nintendo thinks up of some new concepts for dungeons and items (which Miyamoto actually agrees upon doing) then it will feel like hardcore gamers have just stumbled upon zelda all over again. I believe that this is Miyamoto's ultimate goal which actually pleases everyone.

Comments? (Sorry I kinda switched my whole approach on the game throughout my post)

Yes, you make a strong point. MM did create a new peak for how Zelda should be. Sadly, Nintendo failed to pick up on what made it so great and did not include those sort of things in TWW/TP.

People have been so disappointed with TP because it wasn't Zelda next-gen. What it was was a mixture of OoT/ALttP and a few MM elements in a next-gen "skin" with really nice cutscenes and better visuals. It did not surpass previous Zeldas in terms of monster variety, enemy difficulty, level design (it did to a degree though), character side-quests, improved overworld, overworld emptiness, details and bits of information that can be uncovered in the storyline. To make it worse it created issues like: what was the point of the Oocca? The story about them is left unfinished. Ganondorf doesn't even acknowledge Link's presence and TP ends up proving, to a degree, that Link was only their to defeat the final boss to defeat the final boss, nothing else - it made it feel like he had no purpose. You actually have to go back and thing, "why is Link here in the first place? Oh yeah, now I remember" - such was the emphasis on Midna. It was just Midna this, Midna that. And don't anyone say this is a rant, because this is the HONEST TRUTH.

I say that what anyone said in this thread is a lie. And you should believe me, because I'm the ****.

Yeah give character progression to freaking recurring characters, not characters that magically dissapear/die at the end of the game (though I'm convinced the King guy was already a ghost... so how did a ghost die?)

Midna took way too much of a role in the last game, it was annoying. I really didn't care all too much what happened to Midna and what her back story is. I mean the other characters we've been following for decades, but midna, just introduced in THAT game, becomes a show stopper and the focus of the whole freaking story!

The char progression of WW was perfect, the backup character (the king) wasn't like navi, where you knew nothing about her, but he didn't take up the whole story like Midna, and left the main story be focused on the main characters

EDIT: agree with Ganon the King, b/c the char progression is so focused on Midna, we don't even know why Link agrees to do things half the time. In OoT he had an emotional investment to do things... though I think in WW you don't know why he's doing things after he rescues his sister...