Should Ganondorf return?

Technically, Ganondorf came from elsewhere and took over Hyrule

But I really doubt they would make a puppet out of Ganondorf like that. It would really just shame him. And the Japanese really know their honor.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Technically, Ganondorf came from elsewhere and took over Hyrule

But I really doubt they would make a puppet out of Ganondorf like that. It would really just shame him. And the Japanese really know their honor.

Ganondorf came from Hyrule, didnt he? The desert.
haha and yeah, just throwing out ideas.

Originally Posted by DrFeelGood666

Ganondorf came from Hyrule, didnt he? The desert.
haha and yeah, just throwing out ideas.

The Gerudo desert was not a part of Hyrule, only a vassal (in OoT).

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

The Gerudo desert was not a part of Hyrule, only a vassal (in OoT).

ahh, my mistake.

There have to be multiple Ganons btw, if all the games are in a story line, and none are just remakes.

The OoT Ganon died twice, but since he was in 2 timelines, lets count him as 1 Ganon.

But Ganon also died in ALttp, that's 2. He died in LoZ, that's 3. Actually yeah that's only 3, but that's a lot more than 1 .

Interestingly people try and ressurect Ganon in OoX and AoL, I wonder which Ganon they are trying to bring back... the one from OoX is the one from ALttP I think

There are actually two

Daimaou:OOT,WW,TP,LOZ, mentioned in OOX

Yami NO Maou: ALTTP, FSA, OOX

Part of me wants him to return because he's (in my opinion) the coolest video game villain ever. Then again, we've seen a lot of him lately, so it may be in the works for a new baddie to make an appearance. We'll just have to wait and see.

Considering since the very beginning him, along Zelda and Link, were the main focus of the game, I don't see why he should leave; his last appearence merely disappointed but that doesn't mean it should be left on this. Like it has been said, if he was to reappear with his TWW personality, it could be a benefit for his character.

Also, there's many "new villains", they merely don't feature the most often in the Consoles episodes the most often, but in its sequel or others episodes. It's also since the beginning that nearly all console episodes are made with Ganondorf as the main villain, except Majora Mask I think.

He needs to stay, I wanna know what happened after TP and WW, it made me mad that he ended so easily!

Yes Ganon should return. Note i said Ganon and not Ganondorf. I think 'Dorf has overstayed his welcome. its time for the BIG guy to come back.

What's wrong with Ganondorf?

Villain Decay.

Softening the villain up in the hopes that this will make the villain interesting even when losing threat value.

Been there, done that. See: tWW.

Have a Ratings Stunt where the villain kills off a character, and thus becomes scary again.

Could work, I suppose. But who'd Ganondorf kill that would have an effect? He can't kill Zelda or Link (unless it was a flood-style game, I suppose), killing the sidekick would have no emotional effect because they are usually tedious little sods, and the love interest is never particularly that strongly outlined (with the exception of LA), so that wouldn't work either.

Give the villain a new weapon or power. This gets old fast unless it becomes the basis of the show.

Yeah, this one went old fast.

Bring in a new, stronger villain, and downgrade the old one to a flunky of the new one or a secondary threat. Repeating this leads to the Sorting Algorithm Of Evil.

Could work. I can see Ganondorf being downgraded to a "Ridley" - ie, a recurring, powerful boss, who isn't the main enemy in the series.

Bring in a new, stronger villain and then reveal the new villain as a flunky of the previously decayed one. Some of the new villain's cool might have rubbed off on the old one, right?

Done this. See: TP, with Zant.

Turn the villain into a comic-relief pest.

By this stage, he already is. Ganondorf is more sadly amusing than scary these days.

Alternatively, have the villain throw off the Idiot Ball shackles and make them Dangerously Genre Savvy. Even something as simple as Team Rocket Wins can go a long way towards scaling back Villain Decay.

Zelda is the least genre savvy series I know of, so this won't happen.

Escalate the villain's crimes. Win or lose, a villain who plants nuclear bombs is scarier than one who robs banks, at least, in theory. They might end up sending the villain past the Moral Event Horizon in the process if they go too far.

Could work, but how would you escalate his crimes? He was mostly responsible for flooding the world, responsible for corrupting the Sacred Realm of the Goddesses, etc. The only real step up is for him to take on the Goddesses themselves, which isn't especially a good idea as his power relies on the ToP - ie, their power.

Lower the stakes, so that the villain can win occasionally, but it won't end the series right there.

Doesn't work in games, unless they are a duet/trilogy, and Nintendo never makes fully relates trilogies/duets with Zelda. They have duets occasionally, but they are never very strongly connected.

Completely redo a villain's motivations (different from Motive Decay). This worked very well for a certain Mad Scientist-turned-businessman Lex Luthor for a bit, until Villain Decay caught up with a vengeance.

Done that. See: tWW.

Force hero and villain into an Enemy Mine scenario against a greater threat, then restore the status quo, as this allows the villains to technically win for once and show off their talents.

Could work, but this would require an enemy even more powerful than Ganondorf.

Show an Alternate Universe where the villain has won.

Dome that. See: OoT, the future with adult Link.

Make sure the hero's victory is only by the narrowest of margins, with a price paid. Generally a preventive measure rather than a corrective one.

Done that. See: OoT, where the power of the Master Sword, ToC, seven sages, and Link altogether barely binds him, and even then he later escapes.

Have the villain do something so awesome that we don't notice the decay, such as delivering a hilarious zinger, a chilling Hannibal Lecture, or suddenly kicking peoples' butts left and right. Much easier to mess up than do correctly.

Too late not to notice decay, already happened.

Put them in a situation where the villains can temporarily be Anti Hero protagonists to show how powerful and skilled they are in a way that the audience will accept. The obvious example is in The DCU, where villains could be secretly recruited by the US government for a mission with the Suicide Squad. Thus, the gang of supervillains will take on other supervillains with the reader comfortably cheering them as he sees how tough they really are.

Would require a game with Ganondorf as a protagonist. Could work, I guess. A bit cliche'd, though.

Trapping the villain in some kind of containment field, forcing him to rely on agents to do his bidding.

Done. See: TP.

Start an Enemy Civil War.

Against who? Vaati? pfft.

The last-ditch resort: let the villain get more pathetic, and do a Lampshade Hanging about it every episode.

Nobody wants that.

I don't think Ganondorf has really suffered too much from villain decay so far. He just needs to get more screen time to kick ass and be mean.

Upgrading his villainess wouldn't work, unless he starts murdering everyone. He is already the most powerfull villain in the series.

Containing him could work, but we would have to know he was contained, which we sorta didn't know in TP.

Ganondorf has been in what, four games now, all of which have backfired horribly for him? Including one when he got killed by a thirteen year old? Seriously, he's a full grown, tall, imposing, muscle bound man with two swords and he can't actually kill a thirteen year old? If that isn't villain decay, I have no idea what is. I can't take him seriously any more.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

16th I believe.

Ganondorf seems to have fallen outof grace only after TP. After WW he was loved.

This seems to be the key issue, TP Ganondorf vs. WW Ganondorf.

That was the problem with TP. They wanted it to be the spiritual sequel to OoT and in doing so, revealing the outcome of the childhood events at the end of OoT. This they did. Unfortunately they got caught up with Midna/Zant's story and the two just didn't mix well, or Nintendo just didn't put enough effort into mixing them and trying to make Ganondorf's role in TP seem valid to the audience.


I thought Ganondorf's appearance in the execution scene was epic and it really showed him as an awesome, evil character. Unfortunately, in the final battles he appeared to be not much smarter than Zant, just stronger and Link and Zelda proved him to be, to a degree, slightly reckless in his actions, just as he had been before he was executed.

My point is that if Nintendo tried harder, fans would have appreciated Ganondorf's appearance a whole lot more.

I would like to see Nintendo use a new main villain for the next game. Someone that appears to be intimidating like Zant and is creepy, weird and strange just like the MM incarnations.

I thought what was so interesting about Majora's Mask was that the Majora's Mask was not just a villain that wanted to rule, but a destructive, almost god-like entity, this was proven in it's actions when it took control of the moon. I thought a highlight of MM was when the moon says itself, "I will consume... everything." The magic of the mask proved to be overwhelming and a lot more powerful in comparison to an ordinary, human-like villain such as Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Ganondorf has been in what, four games now, all of which have backfired horribly for him? Including one when he got killed by a thirteen year old? Seriously, he's a full grown, tall, imposing, muscle bound man with two swords and he can't actually kill a thirteen year old? If that isn't villain decay, I have no idea what is. I can't take him seriously any more.

I wouldn't say they have "backfired horribly for him". In OoT, he got defeated by a fully grown Link who went through many experience and owned a Triforce piece, not by the drunk dude from the nearby pub. Link isn't just anyone, he is the hero chosen by the Goddess, and any villain in Zelda are doomed to be defeated by Link, that it be Ganondorf, Vaati or a new one. The point is that Ganondorf is criticized a lot only since TP, and wasn't, or very few, before it. Stopping his character for a single game is far from being a good idea, not to add it's up to interpretation whatever him in TP was a good idea or not, when I play Zelda I except Ganondorf to be there, as much as I except Zelda to be Hyrule's princess and Link the main character.

In TWW, what people forget is that the King of Hyrule actually wished on the Triforce for Ganondorf to be destroyed. For all we know, Link succeeding to defeat Ganondorf may merely have been the Triforce doing. Without the King's wish, Link would possibly actually have lost. Actually, he did lose before the Triforce was united, and he even lost very easilly, but it's Ganondorf who refused to kill him (rightfully, at this point Link was helpless and leaving him alive would make him witness Ganondorf triumph). It's thanks to the Triforce, aka the Power of the Gods, the King of Hyrule and the Princess of Hyrule that Ganondorf was killed, not Link alone.

I just don't see how it makes a 'villain decay' because he can't kill Link. He even could at some point, he merely didn't do it for various reason, often justified, or was stopped by worthy opponent (a giant dragon can easilly be seen as worthy opponent) Beside, no one could and no one ever will kill Link, bring as many new villain as you wish, as evil as they can be, they'll finish up killed or sealed by Link even if they're as big as a mountain.

The thing about Ganondorf is that they aren't even trying with him anymore.

Look at TP, they had the potential for an awesome villain with Zant, then they throw in Ganondorf who doesn't really fit, he steals Zants thunder and turns him into a lame and whiney jester.

Until they can make Ganondorf amazing again they should keep him out

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

The thing about Ganondorf is that they aren't even trying with him anymore.

Look at TP, they had the potential for an awesome villain with Zant, then they throw in Ganondorf who doesn't really fit, he steals Zants thunder and turns him into a lame and whiney jester.

Until they can make Ganondorf amazing again they should keep him out

Seeing as Ganondorf was the source of Zant's power, Ganondorf didn't really steal Zant's thunder, he was Zant's thunder.

I thought Ganondorf kicked some ass in TP.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Seeing as Ganondorf was the source of Zant's power, Ganondorf didn't really steal Zant's thunder, he was Zant's thunder.

I thought Ganondorf kicked some ass in TP.

Zant could have had a completely different source of power, it didn't need to be Ganon.

Zant came across as awesome until you faced him.

Ganondorf did have an interesting battle but it could have been used for Zant instead. Ganons beast form could have been Zant turning into a Twilight Guardian, the sword battle would be cool with Zant barely even moving yet deflecting nearly every blow with bullet fast moves.

Zant had alot of potential

Half the point of Zant was his sudden breakdown into insanity. Up until that point, he was just another wannabee Ganondorf.

He had no potential as an independant villain, because his spot as the "badass" villain is already taken by Ganondorf in the Zelda series.