What do I want to return from previous Zelda games? Absolutely nothing.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I think the phrase you were looking for was "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which is pointless appeal to tradition. Doing something simply because that's the way it has always done is one of the massive flaws with most long-running games series, and Zelda is a prime offender. Being a clone of the previous a game is not a merit.

If it's not broke (aka fun), why shouldn't it be in the next game?

Because fun is like drugs. The high is never as high the second time around.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

I think the phrase you were looking for was "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which is pointless appeal to tradition. Doing something simply because that's the way it has always done is one of the massive flaws with most long-running games series, and Zelda is a prime offender. Being a clone of the previous a game is not a merit.

I'm saying that your arguement sounds like "If it ain't broken, throw it away" Which in all honesty sounds stupid. My new flat screen TV works fine, but I'm not going to throw it away. But even though my TV works fine, I'm still going to add things to it. My Wii console and PS3...maybe put soom stickers on it. =\

Eitherway, if I wanted Zelda to stand still I wouldn't be buying the new games anyways. I feel that instead of Zelda going higher with more fresh ideas. It's just getting rid of what I love about Zelda and watering it down with things I could care less about. I feel like a "reboot" would be just another step backwards.

Zelda needs an upgraded fighting system, a story that deviates from the traditional, more emphasis on NPCs, and more item uses. Getting rid of everything in Zelda except for Link and possibly Zelda...will not give me any of the things that I desire. It will basically be some game with a character that I think is Link.

Technically Zelda would have to make some appearances in the series, even if it was completely changed, or it would have to be called The Legend Of Link.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

Because fun is like drugs. The high is never as high the second time around.

Drug highes can be as high the second, third and fiftieth time around. It's all about the amount of drugs, not the amount of highes.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Drug highes can be as high the second, third and fiftieth time around. It's all about the amount of drugs, not the amount of highes.

Why are why talking about drugs? xD

Originally Posted by Silver

As I said earlier in the thread, the spinner was underutilized.

And...you don't ever want to give it another chance.

Yep. Definitely the same caliber as MM.

In innovation? Hell yes. It's probably MORE innovative than MM, seeing as how it put Zelda in a multiplayer context, and got it VERY right. The only problem was getting the actual hardware,

Since when is this an argument? I'm just throwing this rant out there.

Sorry. I apologize.

Now, I will say that you aren't going to sway anyone with your rant if you say stuff like that, dwag.

The difference is that some games (Like MM) have been able to use that idea in an innovative way, while other (Like TP) have not.

Originally Posted by fratey

Now you compare TP to MM.

lol

"Boat!!" = Wind Waker used the boat VERY VERY well until the Triforce fetch quest.
"Hourglass!!" = is just ignorance. The game wasn't centered around the hourglass, the story and the main dungeon (which I think is a fantastic, and well thought out idea, with the shortcuts and all the treasure and the never-before well done stealth gameplay) was. If anything Phantom Hourglass was centered around "TOUCH SCREEN."

In all, basically, you guys are complaining about Twilight Princess, and I'm actually with you on TP; TP was a good game, but not a good Zelda game.

But to say that Zelda is stagnant and needs a total reboot and that all the mechanics that have been come up with in the past needs to be tossed is laughable.

I also forgot to address fratey for for thinking that OoT's story was built from the ground up; OoT's story was just Link to the Past with some extra narrative.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Why are why talking about drugs? xD

Because he tried to use drugs as an example of something that isn't as good the second time, which it can be.

Maybe Sex is a better example, first time might hurt, but if you and the other (or just you ) are good, it can be amazing time and time again. And sometimes, one good part and one bad part equals mediocracy, experimentation can lead anywhere, etc. etc.

I'm aware that OoT is basically based of ALttP's backstory, but it's still fresh, per se.

If you look at it Zelda isn't story driven at all. They need to come up with an idea that makes it not "You got the three gems! You got the Master Sword! You got the arrow!" I really want Zelda to be story driven this time and not just concepts (even if they are cool) New gameplay ideas with a story driven game would just make a completely new Zelda experience.

Edit: I just thought of something perhaps something that involved you playing as zelda would seem very refreshing. Possibly even sheik.

Yes I agree they should strip Zelda of everything to its basic core elements (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf). If making a game in Hyrule maybe DONT scrap Zoras, Gorons, Hylians etc.

TP brought nothing really innovative at the "core". Yes people have commented that walking on the walls was innovative, the spinner was innovative and so was the double clawshot - TP was still just another OoT and ALttP. Actually before TP's release I was craving an innovative Zelda game with the look and feel of OoT, not an OoT clone. Basically, I was on the forums 2 weeks prior to TP's release hearing that TP was disappointing, then when I played the game for myself (the morning after the night that it was released) I said to myself this looks like an awesome game (when I started playing it) but is not the true "Wii Zelda" or "game of all time." Actually my first feelings of disappointment were from Midna herself (when I saw the first pictures of her) and I had a gut feeling that this could never be the true Zelda game... not with this character anyway.

MM without a doubt had the best atmosphere of any game. Always at the back of your mind you knew that the moon was about to crash and destroy the world and you had to save it. Thats a storyline that brings innovation just like that. Now what would you rather play, MM's storyline or a storyline about using mirrors and dark worlds?

Nintendo just need to make a game that re-uses major people, places etc (Kakariko village, CT, Death Mountain, Link, Zelda) and create a unique and innovative PLOT and from there they can work with new weapons, characters etc. Making a new theme for the game "train", "phourglass", "wolf", is not going to work and its going to bring the series down - this is what Miyamoto's focus is on and looks like to me that he doesn't care too much about Zelda anymore.

Originally Posted by Silver

Majora's Mask was the last Zelda game that truly innovated the formula, while every game after has further stagnated the series...

You're right, nothing new happened after MM. All other games were duplicates. Wind Waker especially, nothing new or innovative happened in THAT one...

I like seeing things brought back in Zelda because I like the empirical Zelda series. If you don't like the things that make Zelda what it is maybe you should go play a different game.

Originally Posted by AuroraBoreality

You're right, nothing new happened after MM. All other games were duplicates. Wind Waker especially, nothing new or innovative happened in THAT one...

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by AuroraBoreality

You're right, nothing new happened after MM. All other games were duplicates. Wind Waker especially, nothing new or innovative happened in THAT one...

I like seeing things brought back in Zelda because I like the empirical Zelda series. If you don't like the things that make Zelda what it is maybe you should go play a different game.

Listen to Aurora people! That's one of the smartest things anybodies said on this thread

But in all honesty, if they were to make a completly new zelda game that took nothing from any previous game you'd be ***chin about that too

In any event, Miyamoto did say that ZWII would have some big new ideas

Just trust him.

P.S. Majora's mask ramks five on my favorite zelda games

Silver you are just a pain in the ***!

tWW didn't bring much new, to be honest. The ocean was nice, but you were never required to sail inside dungeons, for example. Sailing was just a fancy, interactable transport cutscene. None of the key mechanics were altered.

What was new in MM? Nothing We've had character interaction since the beginning, nothing new there. A time system and schedueles were present in OoT. Transforming is an extremely common concept.

MM was just another evolutionary peice in the Zelda master puzzle, not a revolution, and not as innovative many consider it to be.

I'd probably say AoL and OoT were the biggest gameplay revolutions of the series. In terms of character interaction and story LA and MM are the revs. Though I have a big vibe that the next Zelda will be another big step.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

tWW didn't bring much new, to be honest. The ocean was nice, but you were never required to sail inside dungeons, for example. Sailing was just a fancy, interactable transport cutscene. None of the key mechanics were altered.

Tower of the gods would like a word with you

Considering LOZ was the first one i'd say that also contributed to making Zelda what it is today

heck, MM was the first one with no big add ons

TotG's sailing section lasted about 2 minutes, if that, and was mostly aesthetic.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

What was new in MM? Nothing We've had character interaction since the beginning, nothing new there.

But to that degree? No.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

A time system

Was merely a gimmick to limit certain items during certain moments. You can spend three hundred night cycles in Hyrule, and nothing changes. Sun goes up, sun goes down, moon goes up, moon goes down, rinse and repeat.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

schedueles

no, not at all.

Originally Posted by Darth Alec

Transforming is an extremely common concept.

Now you compare transforming that MM had to the ****ty wolf form of TP.