Does Nintendo think that TP > MM???

Does Nintendo think that Zelda: Twilight Princess is better than the artistically superior Zelda: Majora's Mask?

I mean, think about it, why would they? Would we? The story of Majora's mask has been celebrated as a welcome departure from the Zelda series' roots, a small break from the repetitiveness of saving Princess Zelda from Ganondorf, which was brought back in TP.

Also, the music is arguably superior. There is nothing to match the pure emotion of the Song of Healing in Twilight Princess (when TP tried to replicate it with the wolf howl, they seriously failed). There is nothing in TP that can match the ominousness of the theme of Majora's Mask.

And yet, if you thought about it, you would know that Nintendo most likely prefers TP over MM. For one, TP sold almost 3million copies more than MM (correct me if I'm wrong). For two, TP actually got noticably (EDIT: slightly) higher ratings (again, correct me if I'm wrong) than MM. Thirdly, have you seen the first half of this video?

Now I'm sure you're wondering why this is in Future Zelda. Well, this issue made me think about what would happen if Nintendo decided to draw a bit of inspiration from a couple of past successful Zelda games for Zelda Wii. Would Nintendo draw more inspiration from the more successful game (more sales, higher ratings) or the game most of us know to be arguably artistically superior?

What do you think would happen in regards to the MM vs. TP argument in Nintendo's eyes for Zelda Wii? How do you think it would turn out? Do you think that Zelda Wii will draw more from the sheer depth of Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess' linearity? What do you want to happen?

I've also included a poll asking you all which game you think is better.

This is NOT an anti-TP thread!!!

EDIT: I just remembered that OoT outshines both TP and MM in both ratings and sales, but disregard that it did. Aonuma is trying to exceed OoT, and I think he knows by now that he can't exceed it by drawing too much inspiration from it (i.e. copying it).

MM nailed characters and atmosphere and had better interaction with NPC's, more and better sidequests and was harder than TP. That being said, TP is a technically superior game and wins in terms of features, fluidity of controls, visuals, etc. The first half of TP was very appealing story-wise and also has a great atmosphere IMO. Midna is also a great sidekick.

So, for a future Zelda game, Nintendo needs to expand on what they did right in TP, but also try to find the deph MM had, and make something of that.

/2cents

There's nothing TP did better than MM in except for main storyline length and graphics.
And Wii TP has the same MetaScore as MM - GC TP has one higher (scoring a 96) - Ocarina of Time is at a top with a metascore of 99 - and damn close to a hundred. :p

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

MM nailed characters and atmosphere and had better interaction with NPC's, more and better sidequests and was harder than TP. That being said, TP is a technically superior game and wins in terms of features, fluidity of controls, visuals, etc. The first half of TP was very appealing story-wise and also has a great atmosphere IMO. Midna is also a great sidekick.

So, for a future Zelda game, Nintendo needs to expand on what they did right in TP, but also try to find the deph MM had, and make something of that.

/2cents

My point is, why would they take more from MM when there is more evidence pointing towards the fact that Nintendo likes TP better?

Originally Posted by fratey

There's nothing TP did better than MM in except for main storyline length and graphics.
And Wii TP has the same MetaScore as MM - GC TP has one higher (scoring a 96) - Ocarina of Time is at a top with a metascore of 99 - and damn close to a hundred. :p

Technically, TP was the more "successful" game in terms of sales and ratings (it was higher than MM in both), which means Nintendo most likely sees it that way. Plus, GC TP was the original, and it got a higher rating than MM, which is good enough for my argument.

And please would you post a link to those "metascores"?

My point is, why would they take more from MM when there is more evidence pointing towards the fact that Nintendo likes TP better?

Game Designers are for the most part not stupid. They'll go through all of their previous games and see what features should return or be remade to fit the new game.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Game Designers are for the most part not stupid. They'll go through all of their previous games and see what features should return or be remade to fit the new game.

And yet, TP and Super Mario Sunshine.

Cmon, put yourself in their shoes. If you wanted to make a good game, wouldn't you look more to the higher-rated, better-selling games for inspiration?

Originally Posted by Double A

And yet, TP and Super Mario Sunshine.

Cmon, put yourself in their shoes. If you wanted to make a good game, wouldn't you look more to the higher-rated, better-selling games for inspiration?

Well, higher-rated games are usually better. Don't get me wrong, I love MM, with all the sidequests and people you get to meet. Probably the most entertaining Zelda ever.

On the other hand. TP, has a great atmosphere, some say it's a step back in time to repeat events of OoT and other games. I'd say the opposite. TP illustrates a whole new darkness over Zelda, much more serious than OoT, MM and any other Zelda. Sometimes it was too easy, sometimes, it wasn't.
I'd like them to get inspiration from TP. The darkness makes it way more interesting than if it'd be like TWW. Again, don't get me wrong, I like TWW too, it's one of the funnier games, but I do most often prefer seriousity in such games.

And... what about Sunshine? It's quite nice, probably better than Galaxy.

There is no such thing as a game being artistically superior when talking about Zelda games, just throwing my cents in there. You should also be careful with using words as "know" as it puts off a sense of ignorance. That's why "arguably" is a nice word to use, so I guess that's fine.

Second, you (OP) state that Nintendo probably likes TP more because of the sales, but isn't that supposed to be up to the consumers? Aren't reviews up to reviewers? None of that had anything to do with Nintendo themselves, but they probably did realize that hey, people like TP more than MM. This, however, does not prove that they prefer one over the other.

I find MM's so-called depth to be arguably limited to NPCs and locations like Stone Tower. That Nintendo would try to implement a similar sense of interaction doesn't seem too farfetched in my eyes, but that's the only actual depth I can see Nintendo draw from MM; otherwise, you will find bigger, arguably better stories in games like WW and TP.

What I'd like to see is a game that takes the story progression from TP, the NPC interaction from MM, the build-up from OoT, and otherwise original ideas put into both story and gameplay. I don't find the TP way to be superior to the MM way, nor do I find it to be the other way around.

And once again, the OP did mention OoT in his opening post, but if he says:

Cmon, put yourself in their shoes. If you wanted to make a good game, wouldn't you look more to the higher-rated, better-selling games for inspiration?

then why does he also say

I just remembered that OoT outshines both TP and MM in both ratings and sales, but disregard that it did. Aonuma is trying to exceed OoT, and I think he knows by now that he can't exceed it by drawing too much inspiration from it (i.e. copying it).

when looking back at the previous quote? If you would look at the highest rathed, most selling game for inspiration then you've already answered your own question, it would be Ocarina of Time, not Twilight Princess. OoT's success can't just be disregarded when you're trying to make a point off of sales and ratings.

I'm getting mixed messages here.

I agree MM has better music and was more original, but that's it. I preferred just about everything else in TP. I don't think OoT was better either, except once again, music.

Majora's mask music was catchy and well better than oot,i was hoping for tp music to be more catchy like majora's mask swamp temple.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

Second, you (OP) state that Nintendo probably likes TP more because of the sales, but isn't that supposed to be up to the consumers? Aren't reviews up to reviewers? None of that had anything to do with Nintendo themselves, but they probably did realize that hey, people like TP more than MM. This, however, does not prove that they prefer one over the other.

Not just the sales, but also the ratings. You tell me how MM is more successful than TP.

I also noticed how lots of people seem to be singing the unsung praises of MM, which noting TP's flaws.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

I find MM's so-called depth to be arguably limited to NPCs, the storyline, and locations like Stone Tower. That Nintendo would try to implement a similar sense of interaction doesn't seem too farfetched in my eyes, but that's the only actual depth I can see Nintendo draw from MM; otherwise, you will find bigger, arguably better stories in games like WW and TP.

That level of depth is something you won't find in TP.

Originally Posted by Abyss Master

And once again, the OP did mention OoT in his opening post, but if he says:



then why does he also say



when looking back at the previous quote? If you would look at the highest rathed, most selling game for inspiration then you've already answered your own question, it would be Ocarina of Time, not Twilight Princess. OoT's success can't just be disregarded when you're trying to make a point off of sales and ratings.

I'm getting mixed messages here.

I'm asking which game Nintendo would draw more inspiration and ideas from, the vastly different Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess?

I'm asking you to disregard OoT because, well, it isn't related to how Nintendo sees the aforementioned games.

Originally Posted by Phantom Lukas

And... what about Sunshine? It's quite nice, probably better than Galaxy.

Blasphemy! Blasphemy! BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

Just one question...Did Majora's Mask do better in Japan? Because Twilight Princess didn't have as much appeal to Japan as it did to America.

I personally like MM more than TP, but I will admit that TP had a much longer main quest and storyline. MM's uniqueness sticks out like a soar thumb. Most Zelda games that try something different get some bad feedback, but later on they are awknowleged as great original games.

Zeldas that stick to the formula and fan-service (TP) get good initial feedback, but I think later on people realize the unoriginality more and more

Twilight Princess only sold better because it was released for the Wii. It was pretty much the only decent game for the Wii when it first came out. Otherwise, it wouldn't have had as much success. It wasn't the fact that TP had better reception, it was simple marketing.

I think Majora's Mask did a lot of things better than Twilight Princess. The NPCs obviously have tons more depth to them, much better thought-out sidequests and more mini-games, I find the soundtrack a lot better, the transformation-aspect is better (for starters, MM has several more transformations, each with unique offensive and defensive moves, unique abilities and musical instruments) and there's more variety. Replay-value is also better, due to the ability to relive pretty much any favorite moment of yours anytime you'd like, without having to start on a new file.

In terms of storytelling, MM tells a great story in a non-traditional, yet effective way, while TP tells what I consider to be a weaker story in a traditional and polished way. Frankly, I think the story in TP is very overrated, I honestly prefered the story in OoT. Obviously, TP has a much longer main quest, as well as much better boss battles, generally improved combat and a much bigger (though also much emptier) world to explore.

One big difference between the two games is that Majora's Mask set out to do something really unique and different, stayed true to that vision throughout and succeeded in delivering an experience that seems to get ever more appreciated as time goes on and the standard Zelda formula grows old and tired. Twilight Princess on the other hand simply set out to top Ocarina of Time, and by pretty much any measure (reviews, sales, reputation) it failed, in some ways pretty badly. If you doubt OoT being more popular than TP, gamefaqs currently has a BEST GAME EVER tournament going on, and I'll bet anything OoT will outperform TP, and if the two go up against each others, I'm betting my account OoT will curbstomp TP. Mission Not Accomplished.

Why is the poll about whether I like TP or MM the most when you'r (OP) asking about which of one of them I think Nintendo would draw inspiration from when creating the next zelda?
This makes me think that you'r (OP) actually more interested in my opinion on which is the better game. Claiming that this is not an anti-TP thread is kinda weird as well since it doesn't seem that you'r (OP) even trying to be neutral.

"Do you think that Zelda Wii will draw more from the sheer depth of Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess' linearity?" ~ Double A

Seriously I don't think that nintendo really care about

the artistically superior Zelda: Majora's Mask? ~ Double A

or that

TP actually got noticably (EDIT: slightly) higher ratings ~ Double A

I think Nintendo will build the next Zelda game from the solid foundation that the series have been based on since Alttp and go for a new visual style and theme, just like they did with OoT, MM(darker theme), WW and TP.

Originally Posted by Navi says Hey!

Why is the poll about whether I like TP or MM the most when you'r (OP) asking about which of one of them I think Nintendo would draw inspiration from when creating the next zelda?
This makes me think that you'r (OP) actually more interested in my opinion on which is the better game. Claiming that this is not an anti-TP thread is kinda weird as well since it doesn't seem that you'r (OP) even trying to be neutral.

I had a notion that even though most people on ZU prefer MM, Nintendo thinks TP was the better game.

I put up the poll so I could be sure that most of ZU preferred MM.

Originally Posted by Xeno

Twilight Princess only sold better because it was released for the Wii. It was pretty much the only decent game for the Wii when it first came out. Otherwise, it wouldn't have had as much success. It wasn't the fact that TP had better reception, it was simple marketing.

Yeah, well you have to realize that TP also sold very well on the Gamecube, so it wasn't just the Wii that saved TP's butt. TP, even on a dead console sold about 2 million copies.

On topic. Even though Nintendo may think TP is better, (and it was sales and rating-wise) Nintendo will always do something risky and original because the series has NEVER had two games in a row that were distinctively similar artistically, and story-wise. Eiji Aonuma was already informed that TP was considered "unorginal and too much like OoT", so I think Nintendo will take that into consideration.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Yeah, well you have to realize that TP also sold very well on the Gamecube, so it wasn't just the Wii that saved TP's butt. TP, even on a dead console sold about 2 million copies.

Actually it's more like 1.5 million. And the Gamecube was far from dead when Twilight Princess came out. It has also done poorly compared to other Gamecube top sales. Even Mario Party 7 beat it.

On topic. Even though Nintendo may think TP is better, (and it was sales and rating-wise) Nintendo will always do something risky and original because the series has NEVER had two games in a row that were distinctively similar artistically, and story-wise.

Oracle of Ages/Seasons?

Originally Posted by Double A

Not just the sales, but also the ratings. You tell me how MM is more successful than TP.

Successful does not equal favour with Nintendo. I'm pretty sure they like their games, but still, you're trying to make a case that TP is more liked by Nintendo because it made more money.

I also noticed how lots of people seem to be singing the unsung praises of MM, which noting TP's flaws.

I happen to go to forums outside ZeldaUniverse, so I get a mix of messages from fans. Which is why I disregard what they're saying most of the time. It doesn't matter, the fanbase is split.

That level of depth is something you won't find in TP.

The depth of the storyline of MM boiled down to going to four locations in Termina, clearing the temples and awakening the giants, and finally beating Majora in a boss battle that takes place in a small room. That's the entire story of the game. MM's depth does not lie in the story, because the story is, as far as I can tell, not the focus. The sidequests are. They are what gives the game this proclaimed depth that it supposedly has. This, however, moreoften falls under NPC interaction built around the time system.

Even OoT has a more complex story than that. WW has a more complex story than that. TP definitely has a more complex story than that.

I'm asking which game Nintendo would draw more inspiration and ideas from, the vastly different Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess?

I'm asking you to disregard OoT because, well, it isn't related to how Nintendo sees the aforementioned games.

OoT is very much related to how TP is seen by both the masses and Nintendo themselves, that much is for certain.

There's more that MM did better than OOT than it did TP, but in the end, the superiorities are still scarce, and most are based on execution.

MM introduced things that TP did better, and that includes the supporting cast. People say that MM's supporting cast involved more sidequests. True as it is, it doesn't change the fact that they had short of nothing with the main plot, something TP's supporting cast was worked into much better, making for more intricate connections with Link. People might argue if said connections actually were intricate, and to that I can only say "Moreso than MM". All MM had to argue with was the Anju and Kafei sidequest, which was really the only one in the game of its depth. If anything, it can be seen as an apples and oranges approach.

The sidekick was infinitely better. Both were attempted to be worked into the plot, and Midna was the one that came out as the in-every-way deeper character. She actually had a little bit of development where Tatl only had consistency with her bad attitude. Midna was also another example of more intricate connections the characters had with Link.

MM's music was hardly better, let alone did it have short of a particularly appealing track when it consisted of either four versions of the "uncompleted temple area" song, a number of the tracks from OOT (which weren't even remixed, at least TP did that with the songs it took from OOT, and better than the original at that), and I would presonally put it's overworld theme at second amongst the four 3D Zelda games (I like WW's and TP's pretty much the same honestly). I would consider my favorite song to be the race song with the Goron remix. I'd say TP's only unappealing tracks were the dungeons and the battle that was on horseback when you had to save Colin and escort Telma, Ilia, and Ralis to Kakariko (the song that was in the E3 '05 roundtable demo was definately better IMHO).

Not only were the game's dungeons scarce, but they're really not all that long either. As can be said for most Zelda dungeon, the deepest one was the water-based one. TP may not have had as many sidequests, but it sure as hell has more to their dungeons. I'm not denying that TP's little linearity issue could be felt with most of the dungeons, but I don't associate the dungeons with the game's plot-based aspects where the linearity causes it some suffering. There's still not a dungeon in MM that I would compare to City in the Sky which, in spite of the dime-a-dozen haters based on its aesthetic, was still the deepest and arguably longest dungeon in the game that made the best use of its item. We may not have had to turn anything upside-down, but that was little more than a means of lengthening the dungeon.

People complain about TP's linearity, but I would say alot of its qualities emerged from that, at least plotwise.