Toon Style: the real way to get a darker story

Alright, I know you probably looked at the title and thought, "This guy must be crazy" But if you think about it, it makes sense. People always talk about how they want Zelda to be dark and edgy. I believe the way to accomplish this would be by using the toon style.

If you look at TWW, the king dies in the end. There's no way around it. Also, Aryll is trapped in one of the most miserable looking dungeons -IMO. Yet this game slides easily by with an E rating. Why? It's the graphic style. The cartoons convey a sense of ease that would allow Nintendo to get away with darker themes while still maintaining mainstream ratings.

In contrast, if you look at twilight princess, it went for a darker artstyle. It had (IMO) fewer dark themes than TWW. Really it was just a kidnapping and perhaps some implied torture. Yet it pulled off a T rating easily. Why? The graphic style of the game. The fact that Nintendo really tried to be dark gave their game that rank.

So, my thought is that if we could get a more toonish game -even if it was rather heavily shaded, Nintendo could pull off themes surrounding all sorts of things that would normally put a game into the M range. Using this, we could actually see a game dealing with Hyrule during the flooding or the great wars of hyrule. With a light hearted graphics style, Nintendo could get by with a slew of dark themes.

Thoughts opinions, go ahead.

That actually makes a lot of sense. You could easily pull off a more mature toon style as well. I think it should be a mixture of WW graphics style and the way they did the look of the new Prince of Persia. If you could blend those two things together make more mature themes you could easily pull off more thematic material without getting a high rating.

I'm looking at it the same way.

I'm not so sure the ESRB looks so importantly at dark themes as it does actual graphics and sound. Nintendo could put in all the dark themes they want so long as it isn't graphical.

So your agreeing with OP?

MM is known to have the darkest story amongst Zelda games, and that didn't require the toon style.

The graphic style of a game has near nothing to do with adding a dark story to a game. Sure it could be pulled off using WW's cel-shading style, but does it make it the best way to approach it? No style is better than the other... It's more based around the general theme of the game, and the interactions the game delivers.

WW had the dying king at the end, the fallen underwater kingdom, and the tight relations with Aryll and Tetra

MM had the menacing moon, the scared townsfolk, and the creepy history of the Ikana Valley


IMO, I still prefer the more realistic approach to a darker story. TP failed miserably in that aspect, true.. but MM captured me.

Yeah, it's true that MM is somewhat of an outlier in my thoughts. Another thing is that I'm not necessarily advocating Wind Waker's exact style, but instead a darker varient of it.

Also, as far as that 'no style is better than the other' thing, I'd say you're wrong there. Different styles can be used for different things. Personally I find the toon style to be the epitome of Zelda. Granted some people may defend OoT or TP in this aspect, but even so, there are definate pros and cons that will out weigh eachother.

Another thing you have to remember though is that MM was made to look like OoT. OoT had already gotten an E rating. How bad would the ESRB look if they took two games with the exact same styles and gave them different ratings? Granted OoT really does deserve a T rating -perhaps even M if you really look into it- but I still say that style has a lot to do with the content you can pass through in a game.

You have a point. IIRC, the ESRB rates videos by having developers submit a self-made, set time-limit video containing the most offensive content in the game. This means their evaluations are rather superficial, but there's a point to it: they're trying to evaluate the games the way a parent would see them.

However, I don't see the point of the act though. The thought of a childish graphic style to "hide" mature themes seems rather...immature, to me. Like the kid who hides the girly magazine in his textbook to slip it past his parents. It'd be better if Nintendo just designed a graphical style to fit the game according to their artistic vision for the best experience.

Besides, the highest rating a game with "mature themes" could get is a T provided the themes aren't accompanied by explicit content. Darkness and themes of rape or torture might alert raters to a T rating, but I couldn't see the strongest mature themes grabbing an M unless accompanied by actual gore or nudity or some-such.

Whether or not an acceptable rating is achieved, this is in some ways a dream Zelda for me.

Like one person already commented I would change the shading and detail to be slightly more like the new PoP game, however, not to the extent in which it emulates that art style- and the exaggerated, toon-like body structures would be maintained. The shading would simply be slightly darker and more textured, and the world slightly more detailed.

This is how I pictured VotF being done, which would probably be my ideal Zelda game. (sans deku nut gun and other firearms, though)

MM is known to have the darkest story amongst Zelda games, and that didn't require the toon style.

It was also released 9 years ago, when the ESRB was quiet a bit looser with their ratings.

[QUOTE=Tally-chan;2666140Also, as far as that 'no style is better than the other' thing, I'd say you're wrong there. Different styles can be used for different things. Personally I find the toon style to be the epitome of Zelda. Granted some people may defend OoT or TP in this aspect, but even so, there are definate pros and cons that will out weigh eachother.[/QUOTE]

It's a complete matter of opinion.. I meant to say that both styles are too different to compare. They each have their pros and cons to out-weigh each other as you said.. but again.. it does NOT make one style better than the other.

You find the toon style to be the greater of the franchise.. that's great for you. Others think different, so does that make them wrong?

Originally Posted by 8bit

It was also released 9 years ago, when the ESRB was quiet a bit looser with their ratings.

My belief on how dark of a game MM was has nothing to do with the ESRB rating.
Zelda games were never meant to have that much mature content in them anyway. Infact, I never saw how TP even got a T rating anyway... I find, personally.. it's one of the pansiest Zelda games ever made...

This thread is biased.

Conker's Bad Fur Day had a very cartoony style, even in its 360 remake, and yet it got an M rating. It got that rating because of the themes, not the graphic style.

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

This thread is biased.

Conker's Bad Fur Day had a very cartoony style, even in its 360 remake, and yet it got an M rating. It got that rating because of the themes, not the graphic style.

it ultimately got the rating because of language...

Originally Posted by Sir Psycho Sexy

it ultimately got the rating because of language...

You're not the one who played it.

It had a sex scene (although, you would only hear it), extreme violent, alcohol and drug use. Also if you fell from a really high place, Conker would explode and you would see his heart pumping.

From what I read, Conker's Bad Fur Day has monsters with a visible penis. Is that true?

Originally Posted by Erikson

From what I read, Conker's Bad Fur Day has monsters with a visible penis. Is that true?

Only if you count Uga Bunga the giant caveman, but it is extremely brief... and too small to be detailed.

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

Only if you count Uga Bunga the giant caveman, but it is extremely brief... and too small to be detailed.

That's what she said.

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

Also if you fell from a really high place, Conker would explode and you would see his heart pumping.

To me, that is graphic violence. And also, americans seem to have a fear of penis so anything containing them gets banned automatically, heh.

But personally I think they could probably get away with more dorkness if they used the WW's style or similar.

I'm not sure why people accuse Twilight Princess of not being dark. The imagery is very dark and the story is mature for a Zelda game.

What makes Majora's Mask special isn't darkness anyway; it is absurdism, the feelings of strangeness, loneliness, mystery, and hopelessness. Darkness shares some things in common with that, specifically loneliness and mystery, but it isn't hopeless or strange so much as difficult and intrusive.

Originally Posted by Retribution

I'm not sure why people accuse Twilight Princess of not being dark. The imagery is very dark and the story is mature for a Zelda game.

What makes Majora's Mask special isn't darkness anyway; it is absurdism, the feelings of strangeness, loneliness, mystery, and hopelessness. Darkness shares some things in common with that, specifically loneliness and mystery, but it isn't hopeless or strange so much as difficult and intrusive.

The death of the Deku, Goron, and Zora for getting the transformation masks of each form is pretty dark. When time runs out, the moon crashing into Clock Town isn't something to shrug off. The dark Twilight atmosphere is a joke compare to inside the well in OoT & MM with the blood strains, the dead, floor masters, and the zombies they contain among other creepy locations and things. OoT actually shows a dramatic dying soldier.

Originally Posted by Retribution

I'm not sure why people accuse Twilight Princess of not being dark. The imagery is very dark and the story is mature for a Zelda game.

Most are suggested, not even brought to actuallity, and overall, the game is more or less a walk through happy little world. If you really look at what the characters say, it more 'insert corny dialogue here' stuff than actual dark themes.

What makes Majora's Mask special isn't darkness anyway; it is absurdism, the feelings of strangeness, loneliness, mystery, and hopelessness. Darkness shares some things in common with that, specifically loneliness and mystery, but it isn't hopeless or strange so much as difficult and intrusive.

Those things you listed... they all contribute to the darkness.