I propose a drastic change in Link's character.

I was intending on having a much wittier title, but nothing came to mind. Oh well, at least it's too the point... somewhat.

Moving on, I've been doing a lot of thinking recently about Link's character. As we all know, his age teeters in the 15-17 range. However, despite his relatively young age, we're constantly being fed the idea that he instinctively knows everything he does in that particular game. One of TP's improvements I feel was the inclusion of the hidden skills. These skills were not something Link inherently knew how to do; he had to learn them over time when he was ready.

So, with this in mind, I figured "why not take it a step further?"

Another thing I noticed was that Link displays almost perfect balance regardless of the situation. I consider myself to be fairly in-shape, but even I cannot walk across a rope without falling, nor can I pull myself up onto a ledge with little effort or continue running immediately after and not experience a moment of being mostly off-balance and stumbling a bit. With this in mind, why can Link? After all, he is nothing more than a farmboy, so why does he appear to be perfectly poise at all times?

I guess what I'm getting at is the matter of how Nintendo can make Link appear more human, and thus more relatable. It doesn't have to be something drastic; even small changes can go a long way. Discuss your ideas for reinforcing the fact that Link is, for all intents and purposes, just a normal teenager thrust into the thick of things.

FIRST!
kay, now that that's done,
I'd just to say that your right. It IS physically impossible for an average human to do that. but link isn't human.
what i'm trying to say is that i agree. Nintendo should make Link more humanly.

i think he's okthe way he is, besides Link it's just a fictional character of a fantasy themed game, humans are more atractted to fantasy and the impossible.
like Adamwestslapdog said: Reality equals worst game ever!!!

In TWW they had it set up so you can fall on ice. TP could of used this method. You want Link to act more human like? Well that would basically mean he would have to die anytime he falls high enough. He would have to faint due to all that exercise and no sleep. He would need to bleed every time he gets hit with an arrow. Also then they would have to add in limping for Link.

I'd rather not have a game that is like this.

Originally Posted by KingOfHeart

In TWW they had it set up so you can fall on ice. TP could of used this method. You want Link to act more human like? Well that would basically mean he would have to die anytime he falls high enough. He would have to faint due to all that exercise and no sleep. He would need to bleed every time he gets hit with an arrow. Also then they would have to add in limping for Link.

I'd rather not have a game that is like this.

very true

There can be a difference between realism and realism. What you're suggesting is too over-the-top. Of course that wouldn't work. What I'm suggesting is that they realize that, while he is a hero, he's by no means a god. He's good, but not perfect, if that makes sense.

I thought this thread was going to be about changing his bland, lifeless "link to player" characteristics, which I'm all for. That's just a lame excuse for giving him personality by now.

Anyway, I'm guessing since almost every video game character (apart from not being able to spring forever in GTA) is always 'never tired'. So I'm guessing if they made him pant and stuff after pulling blocks, it'd just make him look unfit, or lazy. In reality though, anyone would act like that. Just in video games, it would most likely look like that. I like the idea though, it would be a plus for the titles.

They had some good stuff like that in Assassin's creed, like you could fall over, bump into people and so on... I wouldn't mind seing that incorporated. It'd also be nice if you crashed a little if you run straight into a wall with full speed, instead of just stopping.

With that said, these are pretty minor things that won't interupt the flow of the game.

Originally Posted by GKANG

I thought this thread was going to be about changing his bland, lifeless "link to player" characteristics, which I'm all for. That's just a lame excuse for giving him personality by now.

Link has always been an avatar for the player and it has worked well in Zelda's. Why change him to some stereotypical (japanese) hero-teen with an annoying, super-happy personality (or worse, an emo)? Is that really better? I like Link the way he is, a silent hero. Just like me!

Originally Posted by GKANG

Anyway, I'm guessing since almost every video game character (apart from not being able to spring forever in GTA) is always 'never tired'.

And apart from hundreds of games where you have a stamina meter? And some games where leg wounds would slow you down a lot, and games where your speed is affected by how much stuff you are carrying. . .
Really, there are a lot of examples of games doing just this, making the PC feel more realistic.

Originally Posted by GKANG

So I'm guessing if they made him pant and stuff after pulling blocks, it'd just make him look unfit, or lazy. In reality though, anyone would act like that. Just in video games, it would most likely look like that. I like the idea though, it would be a plus for the titles.

Well, if he pushes a stone block the size of a car, he isn't unfit if he pants a little after that! So yes, I like the idea too.
And also, when you have lost a lot of hearts and stop for a moment, doesn't Link breathe heavily and look exhausted in some games? So it wouldn't be a brand new addition, it would rather just expand the current system.

Originally Posted by The Great Panda

There can be a difference between realism and realism. What you're suggesting is too over-the-top. Of course that wouldn't work. What I'm suggesting is that they realize that, while he is a hero, he's by no means a god. He's good, but not perfect, if that makes sense.

He's also part of a legend... Ever read Beowulf? He was able to slay monsters with his bare hands, breathe underwater, and do all kinds of impossible tasks... That's the thing about legends, they are always exaggerated in order to make the main character seem more powerful... if Link was too realistic it would be more like the "History of Zelda" rather than the "Legend of Zelda"...

Have you ever asked yourself why is he fighting magical monsters and time-travelling and turning into animals? Cuz he's not a normal teenager!!! No way in the world a regular human could do all that without getting tired...

Perhaps you mean that he should develop different attributes like an EA sports game (i.e., Strength, Stamina, Endurance, Agility)...

Originally Posted by Otuz

Link has always been an avatar for the player and it has worked well in Zelda's. Why change him to some stereotypical (japanese) hero-teen with an annoying, super-happy personality (or worse, an emo)? Is that really better? I like Link the way he is, a silent hero. Just like me!

Yeah, but in every other adventure games that doesn't have VA, they didn't use the excuse "he's your avatar". They just didn't give him personality. It was a good idea back in LoZ and AoL, but wow, not in 2009.

And apart from hundreds of games where you have a stamina meter? And some games where leg wounds would slow you down a lot, and games where your speed is affected by how much stuff you are carrying. . .
Really, there are a lot of examples of games doing just this, making the PC feel more realistic.

Well I can think of Bethesda games where you're over encumbered. Plus, you're talking PC. I'm talking consoles, since Zelda is on consoles.

Well, if he pushes a stone block the size of a car, he isn't unfit if he pants a little after that! So yes, I like the idea too.

What I was trying to say was, in a game situation, it's going to look like the character is unfit. Even if he's pushing a 40ton stone which would absolutely be unmovable, never mind make you pant - he's just going to look unfit rather than what would in the real world be a perfectly understandable reason to be tired. It's how I'm thinking it would look anyway, I may be wrong.

And also, when you have lost a lot of hearts and stop for a moment, doesn't Link breathe heavily and look exhausted in some games? So it wouldn't be a brand new addition, it would rather just expand the current system.

Yeah, when that beeping starts like in Pokémon. That's the kind of thing that the OP seems to be getting at, and it would be nice if implemented into more areas of the game. Obviously, without them making it seems like what I said. They could pull it off though.

Originally Posted by GKANG

Yeah, but in every other adventure games that doesn't have VA, they didn't use the excuse "he's your avatar". They just didn't give him personality. It was a good idea back in LoZ and AoL, but wow, not in 2009.

Uhm, avatarized characters still work on games. Take a look at Freeman, for example (yes, it's a FPS). They didn't just magically stop working with voice acting.
And besides, why give Link more personality? I just see no reason, the plot works well enough without Link talking/commenting on things.

Originally Posted by GKANG

Well I can think of Bethesda games where you're over encumbered. Plus, you're talking PC. I'm talking consoles, since Zelda is on consoles.

PC, consoles, what's the difference? It's all just games. (And with PC in my last post I meant Player Character, heh.)

Originally Posted by GKANG

What I was trying to say was, in a game situation, it's going to look like the character is unfit. Even if he's pushing a 40ton stone which would absolutely be unmovable, never mind make you pant - he's just going to look unfit rather than what would in the real world be a perfectly understandable reason to be tired. It's how I'm thinking it would look anyway, I may be wrong.

Yeah, I get what you mean. Compared to the other game heroes, Link would look like a weakling.
But for me, it would only add some immersion to make him a tad 'weaker'.

Simply have Link a junior in training for the town guard, along with a bunch of other young people

One of the biggest things that annoys me about Link's personality would probably be his selflessness. I mean it's great that he's willing to do things for other people but it just gets annoying after awhile.

I think it wouldn't hurt the Zelda Franchise if Link was a little meaner.

I like the idea, especially considering his personality.

Before any of you say anything, I do like Link being an avatar for the player. That's fine. But we should still give him at least a little personality, shouldn't we? As much as you want to deny it, Link is human. He's not a god, or even a demigod, or anything. He's supposed to be portrayed as a normal person who has to go out and save the world. In OoT, he's a normal ten-year-old boy with friends and a happy, normal life when Ganondorf starts wreaking havoc. In WW, he's a normal kid trying to have fun with his family on his twelfth birthday when his little sister gets kidnapped. In TP, he's an ordinary teenage farm boy whose best friend happens to get kidnapped by a monster.

Nowhere in the Zelda canon is any proof that he's more than human. So shouldn't he act like one?

I like the idea of expanding on the Hidden Skills, and him panting when he gets tired. I think you could maybe add to it a little bit by for every heart Link loses, he gets a little more tired, and maybe his clothes get slightly more torn up or something like that. Instead of just having him look all exhausted when he's only got one heart left, make it a gradual process. Also, he could look a little more off-balance when walking on certain surfaces.

I also loved his facial expressions in TP. I hope they really add to those in the next game. Just make his reactions a little more human-like, you know? But without getting rid of the link thing. I think it's perfectly possible for Link to have a personality without destroying that concept.

Originally Posted by RENEEgade

One of the biggest things that annoys me about Link's personality would probably be his selflessness. I mean it's great that he's willing to do things for other people but it just gets annoying after awhile.

I think it wouldn't hurt the Zelda Franchise if Link was a little meaner.

The selflessness is just natural instinct of what a hero would be, its not really Link himself as Link is meant to be you.

Though adding in some conversation choices would be nice

Originally Posted by RENEEgade

One of the biggest things that annoys me about Link's personality would probably be his selflessness. I mean it's great that he's willing to do things for other people but it just gets annoying after awhile.

I think it wouldn't hurt the Zelda Franchise if Link was a little meaner.

You somewhat can in Majora's Mask with Kafei & Anju, Kafei won't know that it's Link's fault though. Here's a video:

YouTube - Kafei/Anju Quest Alternate Ending

You can give Anju's letter to a guy from the toilet for him to wipe with. Sure, it's for a piece of heart, but other kinds of paper can be used for that such as a deku's deed.

As to the main idea, I agree. Link should not be super man, but also, he shouldn't be a wimp. He should be in the middle...


As to the sub-argument about his personality, I think that you should be able to MAKE his personality. Make it so that you can CHOOSE what Link says (Like in Mass Effect and KotOR)

Well, I hate to get all storyline-ish on you but Link is the Chosen Hero by the Gods, sooo I think he can do things that he really didn't know he could.

And in Twilight Princess Link has like 10 different animations for grabbing a ledge, one time I cleared a ledge with Link and he landed on his knees and stumbled up, another time (This one is more frequent) Link grabbed the ledge with one hand and gasped (making me gasp) and then he slowly pulled up, and another time he grabbed a ledge with both hands and his leg then quickly threw himself up...it was cool, but in a funny way.

The development team thinks Link's growing maturity is very important in Zelda, basically Link starts off as a child and grows into an adult in every Zelda game, not physically but in every other sense of the word. Sometimes I don't think they do a good job with that theme. It was kind of hard for TP since Link starts off at tip-top shape, which is why Wolf Link was created. But if you notice Link's personality in the beginning of TWW and compare it to his personality near the end of TWW, you notice he goes from not so heroic (sad/scared to leave Outset) to acting like a true confident hero. (Ready to leave Outset) A lot of people don't notice Link's evolving nature, because sometimes it's too subtle.

Maybe they should add a little RPG element where Link learns new abilties through killing stuff, or something.

A stamina system would make everything more realistic and solve half of the problems without consequences.

At 100% stamina, things are a breeze such as walking on a rope. However, swinging with the sword and doing powerful attacks eat stamina (that's regenerated over time). Swinging self up for cliffs, sprinting (yeah, we could add walking, which regenerates stamina decently fast, running, which doesn't neither degenerate or regenerate stamina, and sprinting, which eats stamina), and being in areas with debuffs that do such effects (ReDead's could eat stamina), would prove interesting.

This would also add another perspective - stamina jars (infrequent) and magical potions which grant infinite or extended / faster stamina for a period of time would make the rupee more useful.