I propose a drastic change in Link's character.

Originally Posted by kaybee2

As much as you want to deny it, Link is human. He's not a god, or even a demigod, or anything. He's supposed to be portrayed as a normal person who has to go out and save the world. In OoT, he's a normal ten-year-old boy with friends and a happy, normal life when Ganondorf starts wreaking havoc. In WW, he's a normal kid trying to have fun with his family on his twelfth birthday when his little sister gets kidnapped. In TP, he's an ordinary teenage farm boy whose best friend happens to get kidnapped by a monster.

Nowhere in the Zelda canon is any proof that he's more than human. So shouldn't he act like one?

WTF? I don't understand it, you guys are all forgetting that link isn't just a normal kid, he's THE HERO OF TIME in OoT and is acctualy the exact same person in MM and in TP it is the DECENDANT OF THE HERO OF TIME not just some kid. And in all other games HE IS RELATED TO OR IS THE HERO OF TIME .

And the reason he can push blocks in OoT that are really heavy without panting is because he gets the gauntlets (goron's bracelet, Silver gauntlets and the Golden gauntlets) and they all make him extremely strong (AS STRONG AS GODS, AS SAID IN THE GAME).And he doesn't push 2tonne blocks like in OoT in any other games.

PLUS this is a game and people play games to escape from the real world so if it was realistic, there would be no point in playing.

THIS IS SAID BY ALETHIO:

- Link is an avatar, that means he is the player themselves (so romance wouldn't work)
- Lack of voice acting is an artistic choice in Zelda
- OoT is the most overrated Zelda game. A good game but way overpraised
- Ganon is no longer being used well
- Zora did not evolve into Rito, there is no evidence (not even that mistranslated "bloodline" phraseo

1. I agree on the first point.

2. And the second, and it would cost PILES of money.

3.****atchia bread off!!! OoT is my favourite game in history on any platform or console or anything. IT IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN SUCK MY FAT ONE MATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

4. I agree, he is not being used properly and is not being made out as the king of EVIL as well as before and is being overlook because of ZANT and all that.

5.WTF? I don't quite understand what the fudge you are talking about.

Okay...

Try to keep the anger down yeah? This is only a Zelda thread, not a political fight. =/

Originally Posted by DarkLinkMaster9

THIS IS SAID BY ALETHIO:

- Link is an avatar, that means he is the player themselves (so romance wouldn't work)
- Lack of voice acting is an artistic choice in Zelda
- OoT is the most overrated Zelda game. A good game but way overpraised
- Ganon is no longer being used well
- Zora did not evolve into Rito, there is no evidence (not even that mistranslated "bloodline" phraseo

1. I agree on the first point.

2. And the second, and it would cost PILES of money.

3.****atchia bread off!!! OoT is my favourite game in history on any platform or console or anything. IT IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN SUCK MY FAT ONE MATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

4. I agree, he is not being used properly and is not being made out as the king of EVIL as well as before and is being overlook because of ZANT and all that.

5.WTF? I don't quite understand what the fudge you are talking about.

Alethio never posted in this thread. Congratulations, you have spammed.

uhhhmmm...welcome to ZU....

Back on-topic guys.

I agree that Link's unflappability is unrealistic, and should be tempered with something akin to a stamina meter. Even if it's just a few extra animations depicting him as tired or run-down, that extra smudge of realism goes a long way towards a better game.
Also with his sword skills, if he has to learn everything, it would make a character that garners more sympathy, thus increasing his capacity as an avatar. And it adds another sidequest. The necessary skills would be placed in your path, but the stuff that makes you a master of the blade is hidden away for you to find. Like in TP, but more extensive. And can anyone say "secret dungeon"?

Combining these mechanics would result in an extra layer of realism that makes combat/travel more strategic, thus reducing the hack-and-slashiness that is Zelda's sword combat and the blandness of sprinting constantly from town to town.
Cheers.

I'm definitely okay with more realism, as long as it doesn't affect gameplay... I don't it want it to be like grand theft auto, where you can only run for so long before you get tired... And what about if Link falls into a pit? Should he just lay there dead, or should they continue to return you to the entrance of the room with half a heart missing? And about the tattered clothes, what if he gets heart pieces and gets his health back? will he remain tired and torn up?

I do suggest however, the return of the old man with the heat-seeking flames... remember that from LoZ? you hit him and he shoots flames at you? Perhaps a gerudo with a sword who can cut your head off if you touch her breasts!

Making Link more realistic would be cool, but as KingOfHeart expressed, nintendo couldn't make him TOO realistic. It would be really cool, say, in the beginning of the game, Link couldn't jump very far, but as he progressed, he'd be able to jump farther and farther (though not to a super-humanly long distance). Catching his breath while someone is talking to him after a boss battle in a cutscene would make him more realistic too. if, however they made him TOO realistic, like as he ran across Hyrule Field he got slower and slower, that would just make the game lame. I wouldn't play it.

I cannot believe this. you guys have overlooked something huge. Link is not human. HE'S A HYLIAN.

Stop saying stuff like "he's only human" cause i'm a nitpicking freak and that stuff bothers me.

Also, it would be cool if you could, say, become friends with certain NPCs and have them fight by your side. Aside from that, yeah...link needs to have more emotions than "normal" "angry" "surprised" and sometimes "ashamed" (the horse thing...)

I don't it want it to be like grand theft auto, where you can only run for so long before you get tired...

I've think we've made it quite clear in previous pages that this would not be the case.

And what about if Link falls into a pit? Should he just lay there dead, or should they continue to return you to the entrance of the room with half a heart missing?

Instant game over? Hell no. But a little more than half a heart would be nice. Perhaps two?

And about the tattered clothes, what if he gets heart pieces and gets his health back? will he remain tired and torn up?

Yes. The idea of having to visit a seamstress has been brought up on previous pages. We've also discussed the possibility of the condition of your clothing affecting gameplay, e.g. people refuse to associate with you if your clothes are in poor condition.

I cannot believe this. you guys have overlooked something huge. Link is not human. HE'S A HYLIAN.

Funny thing about Hylians: they're exactly the same, but with longer ears. At least, that's how the games portray them.

maybe those long ears contain adrenaline. It's like how yellow pikmin can be thrown higher cause they have big ears. or maybe his funky hat has some sort of stimulant in it.there has to be a reason for the funky hat, right?

^No, that is NOT how it works. Comparing Hylians to Pikmin because of their ears? Not really a good comparison. And what does the hat have to do with it?
Cheers,
~MARU~

Personally, I think Link is just fine the way he is as far as a character standpoint goes. But if there was one thing I'd change in Nintendo - It'd be voice acting instead of so many sound effects, such as gasps and grunts. I've had enough of that when playing SSBB - sure, I love the game, but you've got to understand that hearing voiced sound effects can sometimes get really annoying. I would kind of also want Nintendo to express Link's personality in a more described manner.

I mean, just think about this for a second. You're living life completely happy. You've got friends, a house, you're growing up, you're nearing that peak of teenage years...all of a sudden, your life goes into jeporady. Twilight beasts come out of nowhere, shoot your close-to-girlfriend best buddy, knock you out with a club, and leave you unconsious. You wake up, go to save your friends, get dragged into Twilight, turn into a wolf, meet a random imp who forces you to help her - honestly, how would you be feeling right now?

If so many random events happened back-to-back, I'd better more than confused, I'd be flat out troubled. Then; once all is said and done; you're true self is revealed to you: You're the famous Hero of Time reincarnated! It's like, go figure! Then, over and over things just keep happening. You slightly adjust to your new, unexpected life, and come across your bonds with other people growing. Then, BAM! You've come to the end of your journey. You're basically at the brink of death, fighting a huge man made of what only seems muscle. Eventually you strike him to his back, bound into the air, and stab him in the chest. You bound off; he says a few words of evil concempt, then collaspes to his back. Dead. Done. It's over. Then you're thought-to-be-dead newfound love appears from the Light Spirits! Omigosh - SHE'S ALIVE! You rush over to her, she stands up. It's Midna. Then, blahblahblahblah - you're back at the Mirror Chamber. But what's this? Midna's leaving! Does she not understand your feelings for her? She pushes a sparkly tear at the Mirror of Twilight, then vanishes into the Twilight Realm. CRASH. The mirror cracked and basically exploded into a million pieces. You can never see Midna again. It's over. Everything.

What then? I'd be going beserk! That's the one thing I'd want Nintendo to do: Express the truth of Link's feelings in the game. No, for the love of god - I don't mean emotional feelings...I really mean expressions, stubborness, and personality. Think about it. Has Link ever really had a personality that's stuck with him through the game? The answer: No. He's always been blunt, getting the job done, not caring when it was said and done. But that isn't a personality! What if he was a rather flitatious guy? What if he was stubborn? Sure, he could be nice, but all cute guys are nice and charming...except the jerky ones...but Link's no jerk.

You see my point? That's what I'd want changed! lol...that took a while...

I agree. Link should have much more of a personality. Even if he doesn't talk in future games (i'm not going to get into that further because people will yell at me ), nintendo SHOULD be able to scrap together a few more emotions and a personality for Link. They did such a good job with other characters... why can't they put the same amount of work into the main character?? i.e. when he's voluntold to go to the new water temple of a new game he could like, stay rooted to the spot, or refuse to go without futher prompting, then strut out of the room or area as if he was doing it completely willingly. Hehe... that would be funny.

Originally Posted by thrairth

when he's voluntold to go to the new water temple of a new game he could like, stay rooted to the spot, or refuse to go without futher prompting, then strut out of the room or area as if he was doing it completely willingly. Hehe... that would be funny.

I would actually laugh so hard if he did that.

To be honest, the games don't really give you that sense of Link simply being good at everything he does from the get-go, at least if you think about it.

Link to the Past started this trend; you can assume he learned swordplay from his Uncle, although that doesn't quite explain his mastery with other weapons.

In Wind Waker, Orca is implied to have trained Link all his life, and life on an island would give Link all the time in the world to be at physical peak (for a 12-year old) by the time he starts his journey.

In TP, I think it's made clear isn't just a farmboy; I think that Rusl is sort of the leader of Ordona's "militia" with Link as his lieutenant, seeing as how Rusl is implied to be a skilled swordsman, and he's been personally training Link. Link also gains practices with ranged weapons with his Slingshot at the beginning of the game, which would explain how he can use a Bow and Clawshot later on.

There are three thing I think Link needs to be more "realistic," but keeping him in the Zelda way.

1) Have Link start off as 13 or 14. Make him closer to the age Miyamoto envisioned (around 10-12), but not so young that his stuff appears impossible. A 12-year old carrying a sword and shield traveling by himself does not make a thing of sense, but a 17-year old with pierced ears and an attitude problem (which is what too many Zelda fans want) does not quite fit in with the vision. 14-years old is a good starting point.

2) Give Link a mentor who does more than just teach Link the controls of the game. Link needs someone just as implied to be involved in his life as Orca, and someone who lasts almost as much of the game as the Hero's Shade. This guy should teach Link about more than how to fight, perhaps give him tips on life and such, and such. Perhaps this mentor dude can die at some point to free Link to prove himself on his own. Make the mentor eccentric and wise and kind, so that he sort of becomes a favorite character of the player, then let him die or fall ill, giving the player a reason to continue fighting and prove themselves.

3) Link should visibly AGE as the game goes on. Every dungeon or so, change a bit of his model to make it look like his eyes are getting a bit less relaxed, his hair growing a bit longer, maybe he could be a bit taller each dungeon, and maybe he could even look visibly taller at the end of the game. He should also have different animations for his actions as the game goes on, maybe holding his sword straighter, more relaxed, and with more skill for each dungeon you beat.

Link could also use a few more traits of personality, but make it similar to Wind Waker. Link dances up and down and celebrates after defeating a boss, and he has such amazing facial expressions that are generalized enough to agree with what the player is thinking at the time.

^This.

Seriously, the whole point of the stamina thing is to give Link more realistic character, which is also accomplished by refining his reactions, storyline, and personality so that we actually care about him beyond "ah, darnit, I just fell off another cliff."
Cheers,
~MARU~

Originally Posted by Maru Nui

^No, that is NOT how it works. Comparing Hylians to Pikmin because of their ears? Not really a good comparison. And what does the hat have to do with it?
Cheers,
~MARU~

The hat has everything to do with it. also, can you not see the resemblance?!




Ridiculous ears, greenery on the head, they do what they are told, and they both fly really high when you throw them. see it now? SEE IT?!

^LOL, OK, I conceed defeat.
Cheers,
~MARU~

I guess I'll be kinda the bad guy again if I say that I don't like most of the proposals here. First of all, about Link's character. I will be honest - I think it shouldn't be changed at all. What we got in all the 3D-games was about perfect. I can explain why I think so: Link's character is sufficient for the purpose it serves. It shows some emotions and will primarily reflect what the player is intended to feel. That's the reason why Link doesn't go nuts with all the crazy stuff happening in Twilight Princess, as someone proposed above me. Honestly, did you as an old Zelda-veteran really go "OMYGOSH what the hell is going on here? OMG MONSTERS!!!??? WHAT THE HELL!!"? I sure didn't. I felt a certain uneasiness, true, like "Oh, did they just shoot Ilya? Bummer.", but in the end I was all like "Okay, I'm a wolf now. Let's hurry and find the fastest way back to my original body so I can go get the Master Sword and kill Ganon". And that down-to-business-attitude of mine was pretty much what Link also showed after having coped with the first story "twists", and that's the way it should be. Link's character is supporting me and reflecting my own feelings and thoughts, therefore involving me into the story, but without getting in my way. And that's quite a great accomplishment, IMO. Compare it to a title like Tales of Symphonia where you have heavy character stuff going on. I remember endless times when I really only wanted to get strong enough to beat the next freakin' dungeon, but I had to go to town and talk with thousands of stupid people to get some stupid information, or listen to Lloyd and Collette doing some uninteresting talking I really did not care about. And I was all like "Dammit, I really don't wanna chat right now, get it over with, idiots!".

Don't get me wrong, characters, emotions and relationships are a great thing when used correctly; but I find that Zelda is involving me in the story in a very special way with Link not getting in my way. It's like "Okay, I'm the boy with the green hat and I'll listen to your quest-triggered text if you'll just point me to the next dungeon", and that's enough for me. I think it's a good thing.



About the gameplay. Yeah, it's kinda unrealistic... but hell, I don't want a stamina thing or something like that. If I am forced to do a lot of running, climbing and jumping (as I am in a Zelda game, usually), I expect Link to be able to cope with that. It's not exactly realistic... but I am not playing a simulator, I am playing a damn action adventure, and that's what it's all about: action and adventure.
Yeah, sure, you could make Link being less capable in the beginning and getting better during his adventure. But this already happens in a way, with his hearts and his items and skills.
There's only one thing that I would find absolutely okay: to make Link's skills actually need more skill from the player himself. I am pretty sure that the next Zelda for Wii might be coming up with something like that, but what I want is that the game is, at least at a higher difficulty, more skill-based in general, so that you actually get better during the adventure. Think of it as learning to play a Beat 'em up; in the beginning, you will pretty much suck. You might still win with enough luck and button mashing, but with time and practice, you'll get better, be able to pull off special moves and eventually learn way more efficient combos and strategies. Something like that should be nice, and it is having a great advantage over the old system: when you're a newbie, you're a newbie, and if you have skill, you have it.
Compare it to the Hidden Skill- and item-system in Twilight Princess. You're pretty well equipped and damn strong when being in the last dungeon. But don't you hate it when you now start a new game and have NOTHING anymore? Now, with Zelda, it's not too bad. But I remember playing Spider-Man 2 on the Gamecube, for example, and you'll eventually unlock new jumps, combos and swinging speeds throughout the game. And if you start a new game, you'll be a lame, untalented Spider-Man with no skill at all again, and I hated that. Sure, it's pretty much the only way to make you "grow" throughout your quest, but it's still just lame.
That kinda applies to Twilight Princess, too. Changing from 100%-Link to lame Link when starting a new game is not very fullfilling, IMO. You can't do anything at all in the beginning - but when you meet the Golden Warrior and unlock a new Hidden Skill, you can pull it off perfectly all of a sudden.

So what the gameplay basically needs, IMO, is a fair learning curve, and a clever one it will have to be so that players won't think "Omg, nothing's working, the controls / gameplays suck!", but will just be quite unexperienced in the beginning and will eventually get better throughout the quest. A system that will allow you to indeed develop your skills, and not just unlock/trigger them; and that won't make you be completely lost when starting a new game. One that will make you recognize skilled players not by their "only 3 hearts"-runs or something like that, but by their ability to pull off perfect attacks, dodges, bow shooting and stuff like that.
Easy to learn, hard to master.... that's the way it should be. And if you've got that, you can still add certain unlockable great skills, as a bonus in hidden dungeons or for sidequests.

Originally Posted by astinktothepast

And what about if Link falls into a pit? Should he just lay there dead, or should they continue to return you to the entrance of the room with half a heart missing?

It would actually be kinda cool if you don't just start back at the entrance of the room, but to see a sequence of Link panting and pulling himself up the ledge with a lot of hearts missing; as if he just fell down, but could grab onto some stone in the wall or something like in every hollywood movie and just climbed up again.