Difficulty level

It seems that in every new Zelda, the difficulty level is getting easier. The difficulty of Zelda games up to the N64 & the Oracle series are great imo, it's gotten too easy after those games. From now on in the next Zelda, I'll only play with 3 hearts and right now for fun I do that in the old Zeldas for a challenge.

What makes the new Zelda games too easy:

1) Not enough enemies, including bosses, that takes away a decent amount of health.

2) Pots in boss rooms that contains recovery hearts, and some bosses spawns infinite little minions that drops recovery hearts. We have bottles, we don't need that much assistance except for magic jars to prevent idiots from getting screwed for running out of magic if that is needed to kill the boss.

3) New fancy sword moves. They are cool and to hype us Zelda fans for something new, the real problem is that the enemies react too stupid to them that make some of the moves too powering that remove the challenge. I thought The Wind Waker's parrying move is fine, but Twilight Princess's additions push it too far for me. The enemies have to be smarter for them to really work to keep the challenge.

I can understand that making it too challenging can turn kids off (Twilight Princess is a T rating), but looking at Zelda II and ALttP for the two examples, they are harder than today's Zeldas. As long as the difficulty level is like the N64 Zeldas at the very least, I'm satisfied. Otherwise, it's going to be a 3-heart challenge for me.

Difficulty in Zelda is not only limited to enemies and the way how fast your health bar shrinks... Non-linearity is an important factor for example, Twilight Princess was so super linear, it wasn't even funny. Even the exploration of the overworld was linear. The original Zelda used to be one of the most non-linear gaming experiences in its time, so what happened? Other important factors are puzzles and how well hidden items are, may it be keys in dungeons or the common collecting items like the pieces of heart.

So, you can't reduce Zelda's difficulty to the fighting. Even if I would do a 3 heart quest, I still would be totally unsatisfied, because I've been guided all the time, because there are no clout puzzles or because the collecting quests aren't challenging any more.

So, a difficulty system like used in Metroid isn't enough. If Nintendo still wants Zelda to appeal to the casual gamers (won't happen, give it up...), the only solution is a classical "2nd Quest" or "Master Quest" or "Hero's Quest", call it like you want. That's the only way.

I agree that it's been too linear, that's a good point. I noticed that on The Wind Waker, even though there's a lot to explore, the progression on in which order you want to do dungeons on is not there and in Twilight Princess it's gotten worst. Twilight Princess is so linear-focused that if you glitched your way to complete one dungeon ahead, the game reads it as you had completed the one before it (at least on the mirror shard collection).

The intense combat challenge that I proposed would indeed be better off to be on 2nd quest, that's how the first Zelda game did it.

well i played Master Quest and honestly i thought it was the same as the original version if not easier! and i agree with Erikson make a second quest like they did with the original LoZ. completely rearrange the dungeons and their locations on the map. though the second part would be difficult to do with a story

A prime example of a Zelda-like game that was totally ruined for me because of it's easiness would be Star Fox Adventures. The plot was mediocre and the voice-acting a crime against the earth, so I fell into a half asleep stupor while playing it. Because there was no challenge to wake me every now and then, I just practically ran through the game, not really thinking what I'm doing because I didn't have to.
So I really want the next Zelda to be harder. I mean, Twilight Princess was a good game, but with extra difficulty it would have been better for me.

However, I see difficulty levels as the best solution to this. Because the other solutions are:
1) Keep it easy, which sucks for me.
2) Make it a lot harder, fine for me, but not for everyone.
3) Do the 'hint system'-patent-thing and keep the game moderately hard, good in a sense, but is it hard enough for me?

And difficulty levels shouldn't just affect battle and the amount of damage you take. Rather, they should also affect the amount of hints you get for puzzles (maybe even puzzles themselves?), the amount of items (bombs&arrows), rupees and hearts you find, the amount of rupees certain things cost and the amount of information you get for a location (so exploration would be encouraged on harder levels).

The thing is, since this is a Wii exclusive, we can all assume that the gameplay will revolve as much around the Wii motion sensing as Phantom Hourglass's gameplay revolved around the stylus and touch screen of the DS. That gives me the impression that this next Zelda game will be geared more towards the casual gamer (since the Wii as a whole is basically geared towards casual gamers.) I honestly won't be surprised to see the next Zelda be pretty easy. I was expecting Wind Waker to be relatively easy too because of the cartoony graphics, and I got what I anticipated there.

However, what I did not anticipate was the extreme lack of difficulty in Twilight Princess. I have said this time and time again, and I'll continue to say it. There was no excuse for Twilight Princess to be this easy. No excuse at all. I was highly disappointed by TP because of the insane lack of difficulty. It was disgracful and humiliating to the Zelda series for that game to be such a joke of simplicity. What was our initial impression of Twilight Princess before its release?

1.) It was made to satisfy the "more serious" Zelda fan, mostly those who were left with an empty feeling playing the kiddy appealing Wind Waker game.

2.) To meet that goal, they of course had to implement more real-world-like graphics, more resembling of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

3.) It was implied that TP would have a much darker storyline than most of the other Zelda games, very much like Majora's Mask.

4.) It is the first Zelda game to be rated T for Teen. (I totally forgot that it was rated T. Thanks for reminding me, Erikson.)

And remember the trailers for it? Those were what built up the hype; this was probably the most hyped Zelda game yet. Here's the original trailer. Look at how epic it is.
YouTube - Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess first trailer

I mean, I know the actual game isn't supposed to represent the trailer, but from the trailer as well as the four details I stated above, I still got the impression that "Twilight Princess is going to be badass. This one is for hardcore Zelda fans." And what happens? I felt embarrassed playing it because it was so friggin easy.

Again, I'm not expecting the new Zelda to be very hard. Then again, we haven't seen or heard much of anything about it besides that it is in production. Plus, we're expecting it to be much different from the zelda games we're all used to. I really hope we learn something at E3, and ultimately, I hope it doesn't suffer the fate (for me at least) as Twilight Princess.

yes they should make it a bit harder,ecpecially bosses.They should make you swear like hell,I am very disapointed in most bosses.

Parts that are too easy:
Puzzles
Combat
Exploration
Sidequests -if you can call them that-
Bosses

Things that are impossibly hard:
maintaining pride as a Zelda fan due to the above list

I guess you could call me one of those "casual gamers". I only play a few select series (mostly due to money and time) and usually for me the level at what Zelda has been is a lot more my range. TP still continues to kick my ass in some places, and without a walkthrough I'd still be back in Lakebed Temple wondering why the staircase wasn't moving. I play Zelda more for the story than the actual fighting, although I do like the puzzles and sidequests. I do agree though that in some instances it's way too easy anymore to get money.

In my case I would be more willing to advocate for a difficulty system as opposed to a total overhaul. I love the series but if I'm dying every two minutes (like I do on some of the older games) I'm more likely to not want to play at all. A difficulty system (variations in how many hits t takes to kill, enemy AI) may not be ideal for everyone, but I think it's the best chance to make the most amount of fans happy. (Or at least placated)

Originally Posted by Tally-chan

Parts that are too easy:
Puzzles
Combat
Exploration
Sidequests -if you can call them that-
Bosses

Things that are impossibly hard:
maintaining pride as a Zelda fan due to the above list

Good quote. I feel the same way. I also bolded "exploration" in there because that seems to have vanished from the Zelda series, mainly in the 3D games. I guess theres a reason for that; it's alot more efficient in a 2D game to engage in the exploration gameplay, but still, I tire of the game continuably telling me where to go next. There were times in the older games where it would give you small clues that make you think for a bit and say "Hmm, I think I know what he's talking about." Now, it staight up tells you what to do, and theres even a fortune teller in some games. [yes, i know, ALttP is guilty of this too.]

That's what I want in Zelda games, to be able to piece together your adventure on your own, with the help of only some very vague clues that the game gives you to give a you a slight idea of what you have to do next. Which is why I scratch my head at players who used guides, whether it's an official strategy guide or online. Isn't that missing the point?

In my opinion, a big part of Zelda games should be the mental aspect. The main reason why I like these games is because I can feel the self-satisfaction of solving a difficult puzzle, or making a discovery that helps me progress in the game.

Originally Posted by MYK1217

Good quote. I feel the same way. I also bolded "exploration" in there because that seems to have vanished from the Zelda series, mainly in the 3D games. I guess theres a reason for that; it's alot more efficient in a 2D game to engage in the exploration gameplay, but still, I tire of the game continuably telling me where to go next. There were times in the older games where it would give you small clues that make you think for a bit and say "Hmm, I think I know what he's talking about." Now, it staight up tells you what to do, and theres even a fortune teller in some games. [yes, i know, ALttP is guilty of this too.]

That's what I want in Zelda games, to be able to piece together your adventure on your own, with the help of only some very vague clues that the game gives you to give a you a slight idea of what you have to do next. Which is why I scratch my head at players who used guides, whether it's an official strategy guide or online. Isn't that missing the point?

In my opinion, a big part of Zelda games should be the mental aspect. The main reason why I like these games is because I can feel the self-satisfaction of solving a difficult puzzle, or making a discovery that helps me progress in the game.

that is EXACTLY what i think!

Yes, make a second quest to be more of a challenge. Enemies need better fighting skills. Wind Waker was kind of decent (compared to TP) except for the fact the enemies can hurt other enemies.
Also way too many hearts too collect. Anytime I get low on health there is always some pot near by with some kind of heart. Does every pot need an item?

Originally Posted by Tally-chan

Parts that are too easy:
Puzzles
Combat
Exploration
Sidequests -if you can call them that-
Bosses

Things that are impossibly hard:
maintaining pride as a Zelda fan due to the above list

Things they could do (not very large things, but they help without changing the game too much):
Puzzles:Make the puzzles moar mentally challenging
Enemies: Give the enemies better AI, attacks that are much faster and slightly stronger
Exploration: TP was a one-off for lack of exploration. It wont happen again.
Sidequests: MOAR SIDEQUESTS WIF BETTAH REWARDS!!!
Bosses: See enemies

Originally Posted by Erikson

It seems that in every new Zelda, the difficulty level is getting easier. The difficulty of Zelda games up to the N64 & the Oracle series are great imo, it's gotten too easy after those games. From now on in the next Zelda, I'll only play with 3 hearts and right now for fun I do that in the old Zeldas for a challenge.

What makes the new Zelda games too easy:

1) Not enough enemies, including bosses, that takes away a decent amount of health.

2) Pots in boss rooms that contains recovery hearts, and some bosses spawns infinite little minions that drops recovery hearts. We have bottles, we don't need that much assistance except for magic jars to prevent idiots from getting screwed for running out of magic if that is needed to kill the boss.

3) New fancy sword moves. They are cool and to hype us Zelda fans for something new, the real problem is that the enemies react too stupid to them that make some of the moves too powering that remove the challenge. I thought The Wind Waker's parrying move is fine, but Twilight Princess's additions push it too far for me. The enemies have to be smarter for them to really work to keep the challenge.

I can understand that making it too challenging can turn kids off (Twilight Princess is a T rating), but looking at Zelda II and ALttP for the two examples, they are harder than today's Zeldas. As long as the difficulty level is like the N64 Zeldas at the very least, I'm satisfied. Otherwise, it's going to be a 3-heart challenge for me.

1. Totally agree. Very few enemies, and most of them take away 1/4 or 1/2 of a heart. And then you find hearts everywhere so it's really hard to lose.

2. Yes, bosses should be a lot harder. You should need to carry potions to survive. With the bosses in TP you could just go in without your life full and still beat them easily. Potions are kind of losing their use lately. I now just carry a fairy with me and that's all I need. I remember playing the older Zeldas where you actually got a bit scared before going to a boss and you went and bought a red potion.

3. Yep, sword moves were cheap. The spin move has always been a liiittle cheap. But the moves in TP are just too much. If they're gonna put those in at least make the enemies smarter and tougher.


I also think, as some have said, that puzzles need to be harder too. And the game should be less linear. The sense of exploration is kind of being lost too.

Yes more losing yourself in Hyrule.Make it big maybe usless places that you go and take a long tiime to explore to find nothing.Less tracked road ex:when you get first to Hyrile field in TP you can only go to Kakariko....WTF put some more vast land to explore I would of liked to fing myself in Lake Hylia instead of Kakariko.

Originally Posted by KingOfHeart

except for the fact the enemies can hurt other enemies.

now i thought that was pretty cool. how the enemies could hurt and even kill each other! i would just dodge their attacks while they ended up killing their friends!