What road will the LOZ series take next artistic or cartoon?

My original question didn't address my concern so I had to rephrase.

The main question I have here is though, what do you believe will happen... Will they go in the footsteps of the "hero of time" style (OoT; continuing where the Link in MM left off) or the "new hero" (TWW, TMC, PH, the new hero) style for the next game?

(edited/ rephrased properly)

ps.
Sorry for the original text, it was written incorrectly addressing none of the points I was wishing to converse about...

try to be unaware of the previous arguement on this thread...

TWW was utterly AWESOME. TP was fun but as i'm sure many other people agree there was absolutly nothing new about it. TWW actually tried something new and it was excellent. IMO OoT is the best in the series but they can't just keep remaking it over and over again (technicly it was a remake to LTTP.)

actually I contradict my statement, the plots were good. Not just decent. The graphics just peeve me a lot!

Don't get me wrong, I think the actual plot was spectacular... I'm really just making a petty remark about the actual visuals... I like the turn in plot. I just feel as though they could have gone and made it more visually desirable, despite the system.

Originally Posted by VicIsPoetic

I feel as though the Zelda series took a downward spiral with TWW and other less dramatic games were released. The graphics became less serious, the story lines became more juvenile, and my all around respect for the series decreased. I feel though, that if they made another game, more faithful to the OoT or MM or the games before, even the Seasons, or Ages their popularity would sky rocket once more. It went back up with TP and feel back down on the release of PH... It is a severe disappointment to me that these games such as FS, FSA, TMC, all degraded what many others and I look for in zelda. A reasonable semi-serious plot line with a BIT of humor. With a time period grasped by beautiful graphics, and a vibe that makes you really get into the game. Making the game not only fun, but accepted by the more artistic players, such as myself. Not mocking it's reputation with pre-school games, to put it lightly.

I am not saying that the more cartoon-y games are bad, I'm simply saying there is a level of expected quality in zelda. The graphics I feel as though affect your whole entire experience in the game. When less mature graphics are broadcast in this series I feel as though it loosing it's self and it's more "creative" players.

The main question I have here is though, other than the debate I just presented. What do you believe will happen... Will they go in the footsteps of OoT style(and the other more dramatic graphics which I favor) or the silly TWW (child-like, silly, cartoon-y) style for the next game and or following games, or continue with this dangerous tango? (Maybe dangerous is the wrong word, it possibly was an attention change in pace to target/attract younger players.)

Not excluding the plot either but that's a totally different debate.

...

You DO realize that Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess were the only Zelda games with realistic graphics, don't you? And even they had characters with large, anime-style eyes and expressions. All others that have been released have very cartoonish graphics.

Also, do you really think that realistic graphics are more artistic, creative and stylized than cartoonish graphics? I don't see how that makes sense, as realistic graphics have no style. They're just realistic, based on visuals you see in everyday life. Therefore, there's nothing unique or stylistic about them.

Finally, the story in Wind Waker is no more "juvenile" than any other Zelda game. In fact, the majority opinion is that it has one of the most captivating stories of any Zelda game ever made. Granted, that's just an opinion, but I really don't see the difference between Wind Waker's story and that of any other Zelda game in terms of maturity. Zelda never had dark, mature stories except for Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, which had very serious subject matter. Wind Waker had the same "get three sacred items and use them to open the path to six new levels in order to stop the forces of darkness and save Princess Zelda" story as just about every other Zelda game, and it managed to make its plot unique by portraying Hyrule as having been sealed away in the ocean.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion or anything, so sorry if I sound like it. I just can't stand some people's arguments against the graphics and story of Wind Waker.

First off, art is art. Saying "cartoon" isn't artistic is a matter of opinion. So I shall refer to your use of "artistic" as "realistic".

Originally Posted by VicIsPoetic

I feel as though the Zelda series took a downward spiral with TWW and other less dramatic games were released. The graphics became less serious, the story lines became more juvenile, and my all around respect for the series decreased.

I don't think you can judge different art styles as being more serious over another. Cartoons can also be serious, mind you.

I feel though, that if they made another game, more faithful to the OoT or MM or the games before, even the Seasons, or Ages their popularity would sky rocket once more.

TP=OoT. It's nothing more than rampant fanboyistic yearning and the need to release a game in time to cash in with the holiday's fault. Nintendo is to blame, not the designers.

It went back up with TP and feel back down on the release of PH... It is a severe disappointment to me that these games such as FS, FSA, TMC, all degraded what many others and I look for in zelda.

This is a matter of opinion, not fact. As for the bolded, if I assume by popularity you mean sales, this is true. At least for America. TP did not reach the goals set by Ninty in Japan. As for PH, around one out of three titles sold were bought in Japan. Heck, there were almost twice as many copies sold in the first week in Japan alone than in the US for the whole month of October.

A reasonable semi-serious plot line with a BIT of humor. With a time period grasped by beautiful graphics, and a vibe that makes you really get into the game. Making the game not only fun, but accepted by the more artistic players, such as myself. Not mocking it's reputation with pre-school games, to put it lightly.

Since when have graphics denoued a great game? Sure, you cannot portray the liveliness of TP on the SNES, but to assume that ALttP is not engrossing just because the graphical limitations of the time cannot compare to today's is ludicrous.

I am not saying that the more cartoon-y games are bad, I'm simply saying there is a level of expected quality in zelda. The graphics I feel as though affect your whole entire experience in the game. When less mature graphics are broadcast in this series I feel as though it loosing it's self and it's more "creative" players.

So Zelda basically has to always be aimed at the same category of gamers? Do we need another TP? Zelda is losing creativity, but graphics are far to blame.

The main question I have here is though, other than the debate I just presented. What do you believe will happen... Will they go in the footsteps of OoT style(and the other more dramatic graphics which I favor) or the silly TWW (child-like, silly, cartoon-y) style for the next game and or following games, or continue with this dangerous tango? (Maybe dangerous is the wrong word, it possibly was an attention change in pace to target/attract younger players.)

I'd have taken out the bold; it just screams favoritism. Following in the footsteps of OoT would not be wise, and we already have said game that follows in OoT style. The Zelda series is in dire need of originality.

Originally Posted by AXavierB

...

You DO realize that Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess were the only Zelda games with realistic graphics, don't you? And even they had characters with large, anime-style eyes and expressions. All others that have been released have very cartoonish graphics.

Also, do you really think that realistic graphics are more artistic, creative and stylized than cartoonish graphics? I don't see how that makes sense, as realistic graphics have no style. They're just realistic, based on visuals you see in everyday life. Therefore, there's nothing unique or stylistic about them.

Finally, the story in Wind Waker is no more "juvenile" than any other Zelda game. In fact, the majority opinion is that it has one of the most captivating stories of any Zelda game ever made. Granted, that's just an opinion, but I really don't see the difference between Wind Waker's story and that of any other Zelda game in terms of maturity. Zelda never had dark, mature stories except for Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, which had very serious subject matter. Wind Waker had the same "get three sacred items and use them to open the path to six new levels in order to stop the forces of darkness and save Princess Zelda" story as just about every other Zelda game, and it managed to make its plot unique by portraying Hyrule as having been sealed away in the ocean.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion or anything, so sorry if I sound like it. I just can't stand some people's arguments against the graphics and story of Wind Waker.

Oh it's fine. I can understand your take on the matter. The only real objective I have about it is... they could have used the same graphics as the more "serious" ones. For that game, that is. I feel like it could have been even better... It's not about the story I previously commented it is about the graphics. I like the game it just could have been more memorable with more realistic graphics. I feel as though they are branching out with the new graphics... making me a bit sea sick (stupid pun), I feel like they keep switching around. Maybe it's for the better to target a larger audience? It's just I can't really make an argument when I like the game for everything other than that. I guess it's all about acceptance.
I also feel as though there is surrealism in the realistic graphics making them not so realistic... it really is a matter of opinion as I addressed before as well.
It just is a bit.... irritating... because I feel like it could have been darker. It's really the creator's attentive though, It's not so much even being serious, I just feel as though they made them seem a little TOO happy. With the bright colors and everything. Slightly disturbing but an enjoyable game in the long run.

Originally Posted by LightForestSage

First off, art is art. Saying "cartoon" isn't artistic is a matter of opinion. So I shall refer to your use of "artistic" as "realistic".



I don't think you can judge different art styles as being more serious over another. Cartoons can also be serious, mind you.





TP=OoT. It's nothing more than rampant fanboyistic yearning and the need to release a game in time to cash in with the holiday's fault. Nintendo is to blame, not the designers.



This is a matter of opinion, not fact. As for the bolded, if I assume by popularity you mean sales, this is true. At least for America. TP did not reach the goals set by Ninty in Japan. As for PH, around one out of three titles sold were bought in Japan. Heck, there were almost twice as many copies sold in the first week in Japan alone than in the US for the whole month of October.



Since when have graphics denoued a great game? Sure, you cannot portray the liveliness of TP on the SNES, but to assume that ALttP is not engrossing just because the graphical limitations of the time cannot compare to today's is ludicrous.



So Zelda basically has to always be aimed at the same category of gamers? Do we need another TP? Zelda is losing creativity, but graphics are far to blame.




I'd have taken out the bold; it just screams favoritism. Following in the footsteps of OoT would not be wise, and we already have said game that follows in OoT style. The Zelda series is in dire need of originality.

I admit is was just loosy wiped up... It was to really be underminded... but i doubted anybody would. I agree that the lose of creativity is the main cause for this... decline, or emptiness...maybe I was approaching it with the only thing I thought was suitable to blame? Now that I do think about it in that perspective, that is the root to why I am not accepting of this and even mind you TP.. They just really need to pick up the slack, and be original, and maybe my new arguement should be... is the change in visuals really affecting anything... it's really just rewriting the same story over and over again. Bleh nintendo.

oh and art is art... I just feel it's more suitable for zelda to have taken the more dramatic approach to their design this time around.

I feel as though the Zelda series took a downward spiral with TWW and other less dramatic games were released. The graphics became less serious, the story lines became more juvenile, and my all around respect for the series decreased. I feel though, that if they made another game, more faithful to the OoT or MM or the games before, even the Seasons, or Ages their popularity would sky rocket once more. It went back up with TP and feel back down on the release of PH... It is a severe disappointment to me that these games such as FS, FSA, TMC, all degraded what many others and I look for in zelda. A reasonable semi-serious plot line with a BIT of humor. With a time period grasped by beautiful graphics, and a vibe that makes you really get into the game. Making the game not only fun, but accepted by the more artistic players, such as myself. Not mocking it's reputation with pre-school games, to put it lightly.

Legend of Zelda:



Adventure of Link:



A Link to the Past:



Link's Awakening:




Ocarina of Time:



Majora's Mask:



Oracle of Ages/Seasons:



...continued in next post....

The Wind Waker:



Four Swords:



Four Swords Adventures:



The Minish Cap:



Twilight Princess:



Phantom Hourglass:




The above is a list of Zelda games, followed by an example of official artwork and a screenshot of each game. A serious/realistic graphical tone isn't exactly a normal trend for Zelda games.

Wow this is a painfully fanboyistic thread.

Thread starter: all you did was state your opinion as fact over, and over, and over, and over.

First of all, OOT/TP graphics do not equal "more serious" or "dramatic". The wind waker was the most dramatic game in my opinion by far, we have character development, emotional ties, expression...I mean, have you ever played through the wind waker? It sounds like you just judged it by the graphics and just left it alone. The graphics fit so perfectly and it will just become second nature to you. It's vibrant and colorful and gives you a wonderful experience. It's beautiful. It's not "silly" and it is certainly extremely artistic..

Twilight princess was fan service. I didn't see anything new, it was yet another generic zelda game. But i guess that's not important to you, as long as your little man on the screen looks real...ish. With wind waker we get an intriguing connection to the OOT/MM story as well as a unique plot and amazing overworld. Journeying to the bottom of the sea to hyrule castle had the feeling of returning home. The dialogue of the characters (escpecially Ganondorf. He had ACTUAL CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT OMG) is amazing. We get to see into the lives of each and every character.

Wind waker is made of epic win and it owns your face.

Originally Posted by VicIsPoetic

I feel as though the Zelda series took a downward spiral with TWW and other less dramatic games were released. The graphics became less serious, the story lines became more juvenile, and my all around respect for the series decreased.

First off, graphics can't be serious. They can be realistic, but they can't be serious.

Secondly, the storyline of The Wind Waker was not juvenile. No Zelda game to date has ever had a fantastically complex plot, but The Wind Waker dealt with some very serious subject matter, which few Zelda games have. Just because it wasn't shown directly, or shown through the graphical style of that game, doesn't mean it was less than what it was.

Originally Posted by VicIsPoetic

With a time period grasped by beautiful graphics, and a vibe that makes you really get into the game. Making the game not only fun, but accepted by the more artistic players, such as myself. ... I am not saying that the more cartoon-y games are bad, I'm simply saying there is a level of expected quality in zelda. The graphics I feel as though affect your whole entire experience in the game. When less mature graphics are broadcast in this series I feel as though it loosing it's self and it's more "creative" players.

Alright, I myself pay attention to the graphics, graphical style, use of color, contrast, lighting, et cetera, in the games that I play. I guess I would be considered an "artistic player" by your definition.

I absolutely loved the graphical style of games like A Link to the Past and The Wind Waker, which could be considered "cartoony." The use of colors and contrasts kept me enthralled, especially in places like the Dark World or the Great Sea.

I found the graphics in Ocarina of Time absolutely disgusting; I found hardly anything in that game which I would consider beautifully constructed, with the exception of some parts of the Forest and Water Temples. Majora's Mask did a lot better in this respect, in my opinion. But don't even get me started on the graphical style of Twilight Princess.

The style in TP is utterly ****. It's uncreative and overused. The Wind Waker cartoon style not only brings you a sense of childish adventure nature like every Zelda should bring, but it's also unique and flows beautifully.

YouTube - Zelda: Wind Waker - "Wings of the Seagulls" Music Video

Here. This AMV captures the beauty and emotion of the wind waker quite well. I love it, even though I'm not particularly into nickelback.

Any AMV done like that with a different zelda game would not work, as it lacks the emotion of the wind waker. You know this to be true.

I mean, the wind waker is the story of a boy who went with a gang of pirates to locate his kidnapped sister. Along the way he discovered the secrets of the ancient land of hyrule and discovered his destiny. It's an amazing plot, one of the best. It's not childish, if anything, it's extremely deep and intriguing.

I wonder if the OP will ever come back to this thread.

I say they should stick with the older art style, I've always loved the artistic side of Zelda more, and not to mention they only made 3 games (Not counting the older ones seeing the graphics were horrible) that were actually artistic.
So the childish art style is over used, all the zelda games lately are child art.
Twilight was the first in a long time.

Originally Posted by Sona

I say they should stick with the older art style, I've always loved the artistic side of Zelda more, and not to mention they only made 3 games (Not counting the older ones seeing the graphics were horrible) that were actually artistic.
So the childish art style is over used, all the zelda games lately are child art.
Twilight was the first in a long time.

But if you look at the official art for the older (2D games) and you compare it to the the art in OoT, MM, and TP, and tWW, tMC, and PH, you'll notice it's far more similar to tWW, tMC and PH.

Originally Posted by Coolface

Any AMV done like that with a different zelda game would not work, as it lacks the emotion of the wind waker. You know this to be true.

Search your heart.

The Wind Waker's graphics were gorgeous, and the story was quite captivating. It has the best graphics and the best story in the series, IMO.

The whimsical tone of the graphics was quite fitting. The Zelda series works great as a bright and sunny overworld, but the contrast of the dark dungeons was wonderful. The art style was excellent and I loved the whole thing.

And as for story, it's been said, but it's wonderful how it evolves and flows. It just works brilliantly.

My opinion was changed now that people have put more optimistic comments about it not so much biting comments. I'm starting to think that depending greatly on the story line, the art should go with it. =]
I think the new changes are amazing, but at the same time I favor the more "realistic" zelda games VISUALS not stories.
So it's a win-win situation. I was just growing weary of the growling but, I guess I did state my post quite opinionated but, that wasn't the attention, I should have simply asked which road do you believe shall be taken next. SOOOO sorry to offend anyone.
The actual question was what do you think is coming next.... nothing so opinionated... but thanks for the "feed-back"

the AMV was quite nice though... I respect your view on the game, I never said the story wasn't amazing...I feel that's where people got off... THe graphics are truly unique once you really look into it as well.