Puzzle Idea: Randomly Generated Puzzle

I was just thinking of a way for each puzzle to never be the same twice...
-Pretty much it would have something to do with....

Intro:
This isn't supposed to take the place of any Temple Puzzles...
-This is more meant for personal Development in a potential "Colosseum" or Online/Multiplayer Competition...
--Temple/in game puzzles should stay as is for walkthrough sake... So that people will be able to beat the game without having worries....
--But If you want to get smarter... puzzle wise... these are the types of puzzles you will have access to...
--I'm also considering certain Puzzles will change everytime... However will not be difficult to the point people can't write walkthroughs about it...
---I want people to understand puzzles in terms of abstract instead of just being told what to do though...
----Make people smatter... instead of just doing as told....


1) Switches
-How to reach the switches
-What each switch does
-What does the switch need to open (A block on top? An arrow?)

2) Placement of objects
-Where everything will be

3) Burning fires

4) Playing songs

Help me design a way to make no puzzle the same twice...
-This could be good for multiplayer and competitions to see who can figure out the puzzle the fastest. If everyone knows each puzzle by heart then theres no skill or mental challenge involved...
-If they have to figure out a new puzzle everytime then every puzzle will be a challenge... a potential competition... who is the wisest?

Maybe a few options per dungeon, but not completely random, as this would only work with very simple puzzles. But it would be cool to be completely lost in a dungeon because some rooms shift sometimes.

Various games have used randomly generated puzzles sometimes, even Zelda has I think once or twice. Needless to say, it would make speed runs VERY interesting.

Originally Posted by MazeMe

Maybe a few options per dungeon, but not completely random, as this would only work with very simple puzzles. But it would be cool to be completely lost in a dungeon because some rooms shift sometimes.

I belive it can become rather complex in fact...

What was the most complex puzzle you had to do?
-I bet we could peice it out and be able to put it in the "Toy box o' Puzzles"

Originally Posted by Mr. Fish

Various games have used randomly generated puzzles sometimes, even Zelda has I think once or twice. Needless to say, it would make speed runs VERY interesting.

lol

NOT SO SPEEDY NOW?! ARE YA!?

In PH if you retake the Goron leader's test multiple times, he changes the questions he asks you. Of course, the game has an in-set amount of questions, but they change randomly nonetheless.

Maybe something like that can occur. Where there are some puzzles that have minor changes. For example, you know those puzzles where you must step on every single tile on the room floor to change it's color (and there may be obstacles in your way like blocks and statues)? Well how about that exact same concept? Everytime you re-enter the room, the obstacles change places and you're delt with a new puzzle (but of course, every new puzzle has at least one solution to solve it. That would be unfair if it was completely random).

If you sorta think about it, the dungeon itself can be seen as one very large puzzle (for example, in LA Eagle Tower you had to figure out how to bring a large metal ball to destroy four pillars in four separate rooms). What if the layout of the dungeon is never permanent? Let's say it changes as the day goes by. So at night the room that is outside the boss room may be one of the very first rooms you encounter, but in the morning, its near the very end of the dungeon (where it's usually located in most Zelda games). Along with difficult puzzles, what about difficult tasks? Let's say that very same room has an unlimited supply of zombies that unearth themselves from the ground. In order to get the complete this room's puzzle, you must last one full night (that would be about 15-20 minutes of actual in game play) of fighting the horde of enemies awaiting for the morning sun to shine through.

How do you like those ideas?

-BGS

I could see this to be quite annoying, especially for a Zelda game. It's a nice idea but personally I would dislike it. I admit, I occasionally run into trouble in dungeons and don't know where to go (especially if I return to the game many months later after abandoning it for whatever reason) or forget where I was and need to look up walkthroughs. I was surprised I didn't do it with TP, but still the need occasionally arises. Also, it would water down the discussions people sometimes have on dungeons and stuff. What with the "what was your favourite dungeon" stuff. That would make it VERY random.

On the other hand it might be a nice change.

Originally Posted by formula1

If everyone knows each puzzle by heart then theres no skill or mental challenge involved...

The first time it is a challenge. And most people only play the game once through, believe it or not. That can be argued, I suppose, and perhaps twice but even then sometimes people overlook things and it still proves challenging.

Originally Posted by formula1

-If they have to figure out a new puzzle everytime then every puzzle will be a challenge... a potential competition... who is the wisest?

This is true, I suppose, but wouldn't it be better for them to just move on to another dungeon? I don't know. That's just my personal oppinion and I'm quite happy with the Zelda system, even the typical item-dependent dungeons.

But in answer to your question, ideas:

Perhaps a difficulty system? The dungeon's puzzles could randomize depending on the selected difficulty. It would be an idea, especially for the wide age-range of the players, if you get my meaning.

Originally Posted by BigGoronSword

In PH if you retake the Goron leader's test multiple times, he changes the questions he asks you. Of course, the game has an in-set amount of questions, but they change randomly nonetheless.

Maybe something like that can occur. Where there are some puzzles that have minor changes. For example, you know those puzzles where you must step on every single tile on the room floor to change it's color (and there may be obstacles in your way like blocks and statues)? Well how about that exact same concept? Everytime you re-enter the room, the obstacles change places and you're delt with a new puzzle (but of course, every new puzzle has at least one solution to solve it. That would be unfair if it was completely random).

If you sorta think about it, the dungeon itself can be seen as one very large puzzle (for example, in LA Eagle Tower you had to figure out how to bring a large metal ball to destroy four pillars in four separate rooms). What if the layout of the dungeon is never permanent? Let's say it changes as the day goes by. So at night the room that is outside the boss room may be one of the very first rooms you encounter, but in the morning, its near the very end of the dungeon (where it's usually located in most Zelda games). Along with difficult puzzles, what about difficult tasks? Let's say that very same room has an unlimited supply of zombies that unearth themselves from the ground. In order to get the complete this room's puzzle, you must last one full night (that would be about 15-20 minutes of actual in game play) of fighting the horde of enemies awaiting for the morning sun to shine through.

How do you like those ideas?

-BGS

That sounds pretty epic...
THere can definitly be room for that...
-Though I would like to make sure that pretty feel ok about puzzles for walkthroughs sake...
--Maybe some puzzles will never change, while others change everytime...

Originally Posted by Paine

I could see this to be quite annoying, especially for a Zelda game. It's a nice idea but personally I would dislike it. I admit, I occasionally run into trouble in dungeons and don't know where to go (especially if I return to the game many months later after abandoning it for whatever reason) or forget where I was and need to look up walkthroughs. I was surprised I didn't do it with TP, but still the need occasionally arises. Also, it would water down the discussions people sometimes have on dungeons and stuff. What with the "what was your favourite dungeon" stuff. That would make it VERY random.

On the other hand it might be a nice change.


The first time it is a challenge. And most people only play the game once through, believe it or not. That can be argued, I suppose, and perhaps twice but even then sometimes people overlook things and it still proves challenging.



This is true, I suppose, but wouldn't it be better for them to just move on to another dungeon? I don't know. That's just my personal oppinion and I'm quite happy with the Zelda system, even the typical item-dependent dungeons.

But in answer to your question, ideas:

Perhaps a difficulty system? The dungeon's puzzles could randomize depending on the selected difficulty. It would be an idea, especially for the wide age-range of the players, if you get my meaning.

Hm...
I thik what would be better is that the game's Temples would created as a one time obstacle...
-That way you can get walkthroughs and stuff...

I'm a huge believer in Something I that me and some others have thought of called "The Colosseum"
-Pretty much this is where the Random Puzzles would be...
--THe Colosseum is meant to be about perfecting your craft... getting smarter... better with spells and puzzles... I think If that was where the random puzzles would be...
--Since the main game is just meant to be finished... The Colosseum will be more about becoming Great at what Zelda is...

Originally Posted by formula1

I'm a huge believer in Something I that me and some others have thought of called "The Colosseum"
-Pretty much this is where the Random Puzzles would be...
--THe Colosseum is meant to be about perfecting your craft... getting smarter... better with spells and puzzles... I think If that was where the random puzzles would be...
--Since the main game is just meant to be finished... The Colosseum will be more about becoming Great at what Zelda is...

Oh I see your meaning now. Yeah, this is quite a good idea. Upon thinking about it, there could be something like the Cave of Ordeals or the Savage Labyrinth except not designed solely for battling monsters but solving puzzles. Again though, instead of it being set, it could be random and as you progress the challenge increases. A honing for skills of solving puzzles as you said.

Your idea is great but I see it more of a side thing for die hard Zelda fans, so it would be great as something like the Cave of Ordeals which people choose to do.

Originally Posted by Paine

Oh I see your meaning now. Yeah, this is quite a good idea. Upon thinking about it, there could be something like the Cave of Ordeals or the Savage Labyrinth except not designed solely for battling monsters but solving puzzles. Again though, instead of it being set, it could be random and as you progress the challenge increases. A honing for skills of solving puzzles as you said.

Your idea is great but I see it more of a side thing for die hard Zelda fans, so it would be great as something like the Cave of Ordeals which people choose to do.

Absolutley...
No force...
I personally think the cave of Ordeals should become the Colosseum... and less some silly name... Choosing which monsters you want to battle... which bosses you want to replay... perhaps even a multiplayer mode in the colosseum...

And Maybe make it have a Maze/Labrynth Underneath as the sort of "Temple of Patience" I described in another thread...
-Pretty much it would be completely a side quest...
--Maybe some of the story line of the game with it will happen there...
---Like Ganon Getting link to fight his freinds in the Colosseum.... (But you basically just have to defend their atacks and do minimum damage to them until someone can telepot you out...)

100% optional... with some story line aspects involved....